Head-On Train Crash in Hoxie, AR 17Aug14, killing 2 train crew and injuring 2.

[torino72]

I saw what happened to Dave Snow's post on this subject but I'm daring enough to post this information in hopes the Trainz community can be more adult than a bunch of US Congressmen and not bash one another with sticks and stones. I'm making no attempt to place blame and make no claim that the information reported by the news is factual or accurate. This is just a little information on the area of the accident. The NTSB will have to sort out the details.

Head-On Train Crash in Hoxie, AR 17Aug14, killing 2 train crew and injuring 2.

Weather: Clear, temperature approx 80 degrees F. Reports indicate weather was not a factor.

Trains: Each had 2 engines. One is reported to have had 86 cars, the other 92 cars. There is no info on the weight or speed of either train or the speed limit at this location.

Time: 02:30 to 03:00 CST (Sierra Time).

Visibility: Very Good. Track is flat and straight running generally SW to NE with one broad curve running NE to NNE beginning approx 2.7 miles north of the crash site.

Track: Based on photos and video, the crash occurred at or very near the southern end of a passing siding. Both the main and siding (i.e., the double track) are signaled. I have no information on whether the switches (turn outs) are manually thrown or automated and remotely controlled. It was reported in the news that a RR spokesman said the collision occurred "on the main". The siding is approximately 5 miles in length, stretching from the southern edge of Hoxie to its northern edge. Running south to north, a train passes a signal just south of the junction of the main and passing siding. Based on photos and underailed train car locations, I believe the main is to the left (west) and the siding to the right (east). The turnout is approximately 1 mile south of the Hwy 63 RR overpass. There are north facing signals on both the main and siding at the south end of the double track. At approximately 1.22 miles north of the south end of the passing track, there are double facing signals for both the main and siding. From the location of wreckage it would appear the NB train had passed through the south switch and onto the main and was a short distance north of the switch. Assuming they were working, the SB train should have seen (??) an aspect other than green (i.e., red) approximately 1 to 1.2 miles prior to the impact area. Likewise, the NB train (assuming the switch was set to the main) should not have been seeing (??) a green aspect (i.e., red) for the main line. Both trains probably should have seen the headlight of the other train and have been braking. To continue northward with the track description, approximately 1 mile north of the afore mentioned set of double facing signals lies the "diamond" where the BNSF KC to Memphis main crosses the UP at grade. This is protected by interlocking signals. I'm not sure whether these signals would have displayed anything about track conditions south of the "diamond". Approximately 1.5 miles north of the "diamond" is another set of double facing signals for both the main and siding. Approximately 1.2 miles north of there is the junction of the main and siding also protected by signals in both directions and the NB track returns to a single track main.

I suspect the investigation will center on who had the right of way. As a railroad spokesperson said, both trains should not have been "on the main". I'm sure they will be looking at why neither train saw the other in time to stop and at what point emergency braking occurred. If they suspect crew error I'm sure they will be looking at crew condition/fatigue. Such things as how long had they been on duty during their current 12 hour shift as well as how many previous 12 hour shifts had they pulled in the days preceding the wreck and what they were doing during their "rest" time. And of course the obvious stuff like was there dispatcher error, malfunctioning signals, etc.

Update: Latest news info this morning (19Aug14) is that the black boxes are on their way to DC for review (final results could take a year) and that the SB train failed to stop for the NB train. This COULD indicate the trains were not actually on the same track but collided at the fouling point as the NB train was moving to the other track. Still just speculation at this point.

 

[norfolksouthern37]

CST - (Central Standard Time)*

 

[jordon412]

I can't help but mention that this reminds me of the Metrolink derailment in Los Angeles a few years ago. The Metrolink train ran past a red signal and collided head-on with a Union Pacific freight train. The driver of the Metrolink train was found to be responsible for the wreck.

 

[Enzo1]

Since this happened at the south end of a passing siding, I'd say that a train was supposed to have proceeded on to the siding, and that didn't exactly happen. Perhaps a switch failure is to blame? Pretty sure all UP mainline switches for sidings are remote (High speed mains you know....).

 

[wholbr]

Hi everybody.
Torino72 thank you for a very comprehensive report on the rail incident and can I take this opportunity once again to express my condolences to the family, workplace Colleagues and friends of the deceased and injured.

Following yesterday’s closed thread regarding a similar incident I do feel brave enough to join you and responding to your posting. I would like to comment on something which you and John Citroen touched on in both postings which I hope will be non-controversial, namely rest time taken by train drivers which are known as mobile workers here in Europe and also encompasses truck drivers.

From what has been stated in both threads mobile workers on both sides of the pond have to have under legislation a minimum amount of uninterrupted rest time between shifts. In Europe that is a minimum of 11 hours which can be reduced to as little as 8 hours under certain circumstances. There are also regulation regarding the number of hours a mobile worker can work in the course of any week, fortnight and month. Having stated all the foregoing many transport industry accidents (both road and rail) are proven to be human error due to tiredness which leads to lack of concentration.

There have been over the years many reports completed by both employers bodies such as the freight transport Association also by the British health and safety executive and the European Union Council of transport ministers. All the foregoing enquiries have come to similar conclusions, which is that although the length of uninterrupted rest time is important, what is even more important is the quality of that rest.

Any number of root cause accident investigations have concluded that the human error which brought about an incident was carried out by a person who was concerned/worried with regard to personal problems such as a personal relationship, financial problems or concerns about that person’s health or the health of someone close to them. The mobile worker may well have complied completely with the rest time regulations, but if in that 11 hour rest they are worried or concerned with any of the above that inevitably results in poor quality rest which can lead to fatigue while working and possibly an accident.

Along with the above you will always have workers who will take drugs or drink during a rest period or decide to rip out the kitchen at home and therefore the actual rest will again be of poor quality. The transport industry in Europe has been aware of and struggled with the above problem now for several years. However, apart from introducing statutory drug and alcohol tests on drivers and other mobile workers at the start of their shifts it would seem that little else at present can be done.

Certainly, in Britain driverless trains are already in operation and no doubt in the coming years will be greatly extended. Perhaps that will have to be the comprehensive future for all trucks, trains and perhaps aircraft, we shall see.

Bill
Posted from the 16:00 London Paddington to Paignton First Great Western Hst Service.

 

[JCitron]

Now I'm not going to cause this thread to be closed...

Bill you might find this interesting...

Here is some information from the US Federal Railroad Administration (FRA) regarding the Hours of Service.

http://www.fra.dot.gov/search?q=Hours%20of%20service <Main search link...

http://www.fra.dot.gov/eLib/Details/L04876 < Regarding freight operations... This is a 22mb PDF which won't display in the browser...

This law is similar to that in Europe and Britain.

More recently experts are finding this type of situation applies to all kinds of shift workers including those in the medical and IT field as well. I can surely say I've run myself on short hours many a time in my career in IT. We'd work until the job was done, and with limited staff, we'd do what was needed to be done regardless of how much time it took to get the work done. Come the next day, and we'd start all over again sometimes with as little as 4 or 5 hours time off between shifts. Not having clear brains complicates matters especially when combined with fatigue. I can say that even then with 4 or 5 hours time off, I probably got less than that for sleep due to being wired and all keyed up from the job, drive home, and everything else during the day.

John

 

[jordon412]

I can say that even then with 4 or 5 hours time off, I probably got less than that for sleep due to being wired and all keyed up from the job, drive home, and everything else during the day.

Probably all the coffee you drank to stay awake is the reason why you couldn't sleep. I went to my doctor yesterday and he said I should switch to decaf sweet tea and if I do drink caffeinated sweet tea, I shouldn't drink it after lunch. I must note that my doctor told me to do that after telling him that I woke up around 2:20AM and 4:40AM in the morning. Fortunately, I managed to fall back asleep afterwards. I must also note that the doctor that I'm talking about is the same one I've seen since moving to my current residence, 16 years ago!

 

[cascaderailroad]

Driving a train must be the most boring, tunnel visioned job, where you constantly get hypnotized by a blur of oncomming RR ties passing underneath you, visible to the vanishing point on the horizon ... Then a surprise red signal, and you wish you could stop on a dime, but 30,000 tons of rolling weight is shoving behind you.

 

[JCitron]

Probably all the coffee you drank to stay awake is the reason why you couldn't sleep. I went to my doctor yesterday and he said I should switch to decaf sweet tea and if I do drink caffeinated sweet tea, I shouldn't drink it after lunch. I must note that my doctor told me to do that after telling him that I woke up around 2:20AM and 4:40AM in the morning. Fortunately, I managed to fall back asleep afterwards. I must also note that the doctor that I'm talking about is the same one I've seen since moving to my current residence, 16 years ago!

That may have been part of it, but the 2 hour commute home didn't help matters much. There was a raging snowstorm on top of working late, and the stress and constant adrenaline rush of driving at night in slippery conditions, made me very wired on top of everything else. My own former, now retired, doctor told me the same way before. I got to a point where I could hear ants walk on my neighbor's porch from being so wired!

But getting back to topic... The serious side-effect of not sleeping well is you think you feel fine the next day until there is a stressful situation. When that hits, you crash, and crash in a big way. Working on a train may not seem to be stressful, but needing to stay on the sharp edge all the time is in a sense very stressful. Without a good's night sleep this edge is lost, and this is when mistakes happen. Forgetting to run a server script, or not being the sharpest technician the next day in the office is not helpful, but it's not dangerous either. Not being on guard and following the rule to the "T", is deadly when it comes to railroading. People think they can get away with things, but this getting away with things is just that. There's always a disaster waiting to happen.

John

 

[wholbr]

Hi John and Everybody.
John, regarding your first posting in this thread, I cannot imagine any thread being closed due to anything you may have stated being that you are the only true gentlemen left on the forum (with the exception of myself of coarse) LOL.

Thanks for posting the the hours regs for USA rail employees and as you state they look similar to the European regulations. Their are some differences between truck drivers and rail drivers here in the UK regarding hours driven, being that truck drivers can drive for four and a half hours before a compulsory break against a rail drivers two.

Also regarding what you advised about workplace fatigue, I agree that long hours can play a huge part in that witch often can go unrecognized especially by those suffering from it. It then becomes an accident waiting to happen.Their is also another aspect to vocational vehicle driving (also probably rail) that I have recognised for a great many years. Even going back to when I was a truck driver it could happen that even following a full and good quality eight hour rest period within half an hour of starting a shift and being on the motorway you would start to feel drowsy for no apparent reason. Since being in industrial safety I have interviewed many people who have have advised experiencing similar symptoms.

For many years the transport industry has known about the matter but has failed to recognize it as a problem. However, in the last twelve months research into the symptoms has started but their are no results as of yet. I personally believe that if the forgoing symptoms are proven to be a set medical condition perhaps a big step forward will be made in transport safety.

In the foregoing, perhaps then we shall not see truck and rail drivers carrying the can and losing their jobs, freedom and licenses for "driving without due care and attention". There has to be a much more realistic and sympathetic approach to the problem on behalf of employers, the courts and for the good of public transport passengers.

Anyway, all that off my chest, I was up at 04.45 this morning to catch an early train to London and will be up again at 6 am tomorrow to catch a train to Plymouth. I hope that driver is not suffering from fatique even if I am (LOL)


Bill

 

[bendorsey]

Driving a train certainly can be boring. I remember reading some years ago that the engineer/engine driver operating trains on the several hundred mile long stretch of straight track in Australia had to physically get up and reset something every so many minutes to make certain he hadn't been hypnotized by the unending and unchanging scenery. Perhaps someone in Down-under-land could amplify on this?

Ben

 

[wholbr]

Driving a train certainly can be boring. I remember reading some years ago that the engineer/engine driver operating trains on the several hundred mile long stretch of straight track in Australia had to physically get up and reset something every so many minutes to make certain he hadn't been hypnotized by the unending and unchanging scenery. Perhaps someone in Down-under-land could amplify on this?

Ben

Ben you have stated their something I have felt happens for many years namely "hypnosis". In both driving on road or rail I feel the passing telegraph poles or white lines on motorways (freeways) brings it about making the driver feel drowsy. I have said that in meetings and got quiet giggles in years gone by

Bill

 

[JCitron]

Ben you have stated their something I have felt happens for many years namely "hypnosis". In both driving on road or rail I feel the passing telegraph poles or white lines on motorways (freeways) brings it about making the driver feel drowsy. I have said that in meetings and got quiet giggles in years gone by

Bill

Ben hit the nail right on the head. I think everyone falls into that drowsy zone when driving long distances. It's for that reason, among others, that I prefer to drive on the back roads instead of the freeways. At least on back roads, there are curves, lanes, small towns, and things to watch out for. On the freeway it's usually straight for miles upon miles without let up. In the south western regions of the US, it's even worse. Like Australia, there are some roads that go on for hundreds of miles that are as straight as an arrow flies. Combine that with the flat terrain and the rhythmic bumping along the concrete roads and the eyelids close briefly or so it seems... I've never driven in those areas, but have ridden through them in a van, and I've ended up dozing off as a passenger.

I agree that something should be done to penalize the transportation companies more than the employee. The employee is given a job to do, but is penalized for not arriving on-time, or for clocking off too much while on the road. The sad part is the companies only think about profits and will surely put the blame on the poor sod behind the wheel instead of taking full responsibility of ensuring the more than just the delivery of goods.

John

 

[davesnow]

Hi John and Everybody.
John, regarding your first posting in this thread, I cannot imagine any thread being closed due to anything you may have stated. . .


Bill

Believe me, it certainly wasn't John that crapped up my other thread.

~

 

[RRSignal]

Ben hit the nail right on the head. I think everyone falls into that drowsy zone when driving long distances. It's for that reason, among others, that I prefer to drive on the back roads instead of the freeways. At least on back roads, there are curves, lanes, small towns, and things to watch out for. On the freeway it's usually straight for miles upon miles without let up. In the south western regions of the US, it's even worse. Like Australia, there are some roads that go on for hundreds of miles that are as straight as an arrow flies. Combine that with the flat terrain and the rhythmic bumping along the concrete roads and the eyelids close briefly or so it seems... I've never driven in those areas, but have ridden through them in a van, and I've ended up dozing off as a passenger.

Sounds a lot like I-95 between Daytona Beach and Miami. I've driven that enough times.

@Ben - Sounds like an augmented alerter system. On our regional commuter rail, they have alerts that must be acknowledged every 30 seconds or so; hitting a reset button, moving a control, etc. resets the device for another 30 seconds. And, then most have a dead-man pedal so even if you doze for a few seconds, you get a penalty brake application.

When I tell people about these things, most say that it sounds like overkill, and I sort of thought that too when I first heard about them, but boy do they make sense!

 

[cascaderailroad]

I believe it was the Reading RR that had a rule, that every 2 1/2 hours the train was stopped, and the crew was refreshed by a shot of "spirits" ... this stimulant use was quickly abolished before the turn of 19th century.

 

[kws4000]

Now I'm not going to cause this thread to be closed...

Bill you might find this interesting...

Here is some information from the US Federal Railroad Administration (FRA) regarding the Hours of Service.

http://www.fra.dot.gov/search?q=Hours%20of%20service <Main search link...

http://www.fra.dot.gov/eLib/Details/L04876 < Regarding freight operations... This is a 22mb PDF which won't display in the browser...

This law is similar to that in Europe and Britain.

~~

John

So if I may summarize, what I can see is that you get a MINIMUM 10 HOUR REST, after which you are considered AVAILIBLE FOR WORK for only 24 hours. You can only WORK NO MORE THAN 12 hours before needing a further 10 hours rest. If either the 24 hour "availability window" closes OR you reach 12 hours of work, WHICHEVER COMES FIRST, you dog out, and need rest, 10 hours of it.

I stand corrected from my previous post in the "other" thread.
Simplicity for everyone, complications notwithstanding.

 

[torino72]

AP press release from 19Aug14:

HOXIE — The National Transportation Safety Board says a southbound Union Pacific train was given signals to slow down and wait for an oncoming train to move onto another track moments before the two trains collided in northeast Arkansas.

At a briefing Monday night, NTSB investigator Michael Hiller said the southbound train was signaled to wait for the northbound train to move onto an unoccupied track. Hiller says the southbound train did not stop and the two trains collided.

Hiller's comments were reported by Jonesboro television station KAIT.

Now, I don't know what "moments" means but I think of moments as seconds, not minutes. The train was "signaled to wait" for the NB to clear into the siding. That might (or might not) indicate that their was no direct communication between the SB train crew and the dispatcher. "Signaled" might mean the approach signal (over a mile north of the turnout) was set to yellow. That would have required minutes and not seconds for the crew to have seen that signal. At any rate, I'd think the SB approach signal would have at least displayed yellow since the next signal should have been red because the track south of the signal was occupied by a train and/or the turnout was already set to the siding so the SB had no clear path. Either way, the crew of the SB should have had adequate time to slow and stop before hitting the NB, unless UP is using some sort of screwed up signaling system. This likely will become a case of crew error, whatever the reason.

I say that to say this. The Federal work/rest rules are necessary for safety but they do not insure safety. The gray area is what a resting crew is doing during their 12 hours off the clock. My neighbor was an engineer for MoPac. He had a shop in his backyard. After he came home from a 12 hour shift driving trains he spent a lot of his time on a 2d job repairing other peoples stuff. How much "rest" he got is questionable. There may have been times when he went back on the clock when he was already ready for a nap. Wrecks caused by sleeping/fatigued crews is not unusual because crews are not on "house arrest" during their off time.

The only real protection, in my opinion, is a combination of computer controlled train operations with a crew member who can override if the computer fails. Installing that would cost the railroads money so they lobby against it and will only comply with the law as it currently stands. Congressmen are "owned" by corporations and lobbyists who are driven by a priority for profits and not safety.

Cab alerters in the locomotive were installed as a safety measure to help keep crews awake. But many locomotives apparently do not have them or they are not operating so we still have "fatigue" related accidents.

As for trusting a computer to run a train, think about driving trains in AI mode in Trainz. A very inexpensive computer program keeps trains from colliding most of the time. Several AI operated trains can drive from one end of a large route to another meeting or passing trains and arrive safely at a designated stopping point. Usually, if there is a problem it is because of a mistake we made when creating the route with speed limits, approach signal placement, etc. Occasionally my AI trains will meet on a single track segment headed in opposite directions but they "see" each other and stop rather than having a "cornfield meet". As the human factor, I have to take control and sort out the mess. But no one dies and there is usually no accident. That is the way would we think it should/could be in the real world.

 

[norfolksouthern37]

given the distance the NB had to travel on single track it is unlikely the signal dropping seconds ahead of the SB. There is also likely a warning before coming to the approach signal. That's 2 warnings a stop signal is coming up, and that is fairly typical across most railroads.

"computer controlled operations with a crew member who can override" is pretty much what PTC is. The railroads are banking on this however to provide them a way to crew a train with one man, which imo is a very dangerous proposition.

Cab alerters are in every locomotive (at least, in every one of these mainline locomotives) and these should have also had a cab signal acknowledge but the problem is that it is far too easy for a crewmember to become accustomed to and automatically hit the acknowledge switch even when half awake. There are also other psychological considerations like 'muscle memory' or 'blind by expectation' - you expect that the signal is green, so you don't even notice that it is red. These have always been killers on the railroad.

 

[JCitron]

given the distance the NB had to travel on single track it is unlikely the signal dropping seconds ahead of the SB. There is also likely a warning before coming to the approach signal. That's 2 warnings a stop signal is coming up, and that is fairly typical across most railroads.

"computer controlled operations with a crew member who can override" is pretty much what PTC is. The railroads are banking on this however to provide them a way to crew a train with one man, which imo is a very dangerous proposition.

Cab alerters are in every locomotive (at least, in every one of these mainline locomotives) and these should have also had a cab signal acknowledge but the problem is that it is far too easy for a crewmember to become accustomed to and automatically hit the acknowledge switch even when half awake. There are also other psychological considerations like 'muscle memory' or 'blind by expectation' - you expect that the signal is green, so you don't even notice that it is red. These have always been killers on the railroad.

With PTC there has been a push back for quite some time and a reluctance to accept it. This boils down to money that the railroads don't want to spend even at a cost of human lives. It's easier and cheaper to blame the expendable crew members than it is outlay some capital to make everything safer all over. The only way to get this enforced is through a federal mandate which keeps being dragged on with delays sighted by the railroads.

Muscle memory, blind expectation, and rote movements get people in trouble whether it's driving a train, driving or even performing other mundane operations. This is the cause of many automobile accidents as well because we expect things to be in a certain place and the mind has rehearsed the routine of stopping, moving, and doing. We also have worked out our journey in our mind and don't see or expect obstacles to appear in front of us, and this is no different than the AI drivers following their queue of commands. With the rehearsal already done, the mind will see what it expects rather than what it is.

Muscle memory is not helpful either because we go through the motions of performing tasks in a programmed fashion as well. The problem is the thinking part of the brain now focuses on other operations rather than paying attention to the details. This causes switches, keys, and other things to be done without thinking. A less dangerous aspect of this is passwords. People remember passwords by finger movement and position rather than the actual phrase underneath. This is how a password is forgotten because only the muscle movement is remembered rather than the context of the movement. This affects musicians too and causes memory lapses during performance, but anyway more importantly, acknowledging an alert automatically is something that somehow has to be solved, but sadly would require some kind of computer intervention such as the expensive PTC that no one wants to spend money on, or are doing so reluctantly.

http://www.timesunion.com/business/article/Safety-went-off-the-rails-5649264.php

John