Have You seen this

[sparky15]

It's quite simple actually.

Auran released a new product with new content. Unfortunately, Auran does not create content. In typical fashion they counted on the community to do it for them. Two versions in and very little new content coming in compared to the old.

What is a business to do? Eliminate the competition. I just find it ironic they're competing with themselves. 09 bit them and were forced to allow concessions in 10 to retain the use of older content as well as having to purchase speetree. They knew content wouldn't work or needed to be modified. They pressed on anyway doing zero to help and laid it at the communities feet to fix for them.

It's not about progress. It's about little Johnny can't get five year old content into his new whizz bang game. Of course it is blamed on the creators, not on who instigated this mess to begin with. Now everyone will have to pay for what I consider an epic marketing blunder.

For a company so dependent on free third party support to succeed they sure aren't handling this very well. Denying access to the DLS for anyone not using 09 or above amounts to nothing more than a hissy fit. It is a blatant attempt to force everyone into using newer versions and upload their content for them. Surely you don't think they will remove anything from the DLS do you. What would be less.

For the record I have 04, 06 TC and 09. So basically don't care either way. I just find it a sad attempt to force the users to supply what the company can't, content.

Dave.....

 

[leeferr]

.....upgrade the content to the better standards that we have come to expect.......

John

And what are those standards. Anyone is hard pressed to find a reference for those standards besides the wiki which is the total pits. There's some mighty fine content on the DLS created in 04/06 that's just going to disappear from the DLS at some point. Just because it's made for 04 or 06 doesn't necessarily mean that it's bad quality although I'd have to admit that some of it is.

I guess all of the complaining about the DLS is finally being dealt with by Auran.

Yes, we can still upload to other sites, but we'll be spending a lot of time searching for dependencies. You do realize that most of the locos and rolling stock that everyone has come to love will disappear eventually and I don't see a great rush of rolling stock creation in 09/10. Recreating many of these great assets will take more than just a few months and I suspect that the original creators may not make the effort at all.

Many of you here act as though we're not allowed to complain. I've bought 09 and 10, so yes, I am a current customer and have every right to express my opinion as long as it's civil. This all seems as though Auran is throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

 

[paulhobbs]

http://online.ts2009.com/mediaWiki/index.php5/Trainz_Life-Cycle_Policy
"Q: Will the Download Station continue to host content for Trainz editions beyond their end-of-support date?
A: We will not immediately remove older content from the Download Station, as newer editions of Trainz can still use this content.
Q: Will I be able to upload old-format content to the Download Station?
A: New uploads to the Download Station must be in a format no older than our oldest supported product. Attempts to upload content with a trainz-build number lower than our oldest supported product will be rejected. This ensures that legacy formats are cleanly phased out over time."

Key words here are- "not immediately" & "are cleanly phased out over time". To my best knowlege, in english that means "later" & "terminated"! Now Paul, where did you feel it was not said?

English can be a tricky language, but as a native speaker I think I've got a pretty good grasp of it. 'Not immediately' and 'cleanly phased out over time' are meaningless if the time span is not specified. The phrases can just as easily mean 'not at all'. In fact the phrase 'We will not immediately remove older content from the Download Station, as newer editions of Trainz can still use this content' says that as long as newer versions of Trainz are produced the old content will remain on the DLS - or not as Auran's conditions of use for the DLS allow them to remove content at any time anyway and always have.

'This ensures that legacy formats are cleanly phased out over time' means the FORMATS not the CONTENT. It seems pretty clear to me at the moment, but I've learned to take statements from Auran with a large pinch of salt (that means I don't necessarily believe them by the way).

All of this needless panic making will only ensure that the DLS servers have even more stress put on them and nobody will be able to download anything.

Paul

 

[JCitron]

And what are those standards. Anyone is hard pressed to find a reference for those standards besides the wiki which is the total pits. There's some mighty fine content on the DLS created in 04/06 that's just going to disappear from the DLS at some point. Just because it's made for 04 or 06 doesn't necessarily mean that it's bad quality although I'd have to admit that some of it is.

I guess all of the complaining about the DLS is finally being dealt with by Auran.

Yes, we can still upload to other sites, but we'll be spending a lot of time searching for dependencies. You do realize that most of the locos and rolling stock that everyone has come to love will disappear eventually and I don't see a great rush of rolling stock creation in 09/10. Recreating many of these great assets will take more than just a few months and I suspect that the original creators may not make the effort at all.

Many of you here act as though we're not allowed to complain. I've bought 09 and 10, so yes, I am a current customer and have every right to express my opinion as long as it's civil. This all seems as though Auran is throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

Mike,

First of all I may say that you are one of the top content creators. I think items of the 04/06 vintage will remain on the DLS as long as they are error free. Items that are created with current config file standards, and properly mapped textures, should work fine in earlier versions.

What is considered current standards is items that are error free. Not all items need the normal mapping. After spending nearly a month repairing items I had downloaded in the past, I feel that this will be a welcome change.

There were items with blatent typos in the configuration files, missing textures, incorrectly sized textures, and a host of other problems including wrong parameter values for such things as nightmode. Nightmode, for example is a binary value, a one or zero. Many of these errors were other numeric values.

Granted the error checking wasn't there in the past, but it's is there now, and should be used to the fullest.

John

 

[American_Connections]

Cut to the bone!

...I've learned to take statements from Auran with a large pinch of salt (that means I don't necessarily believe them by the way)...Paul

Well, with this point I have to agree with you! The debate just get me Irish up abit!

 

[bendorsey]

I have all my CDP's and 240 by 180 pixel images archived on two external hard drives (double backup) so if Auran does eventually delete all 04 and 06 content from the DLS I can upload them all to another site. However - - - I wonder how many other content creators have thier CDP's and images archived as well. If most do and are willing to place them on other sites - 04 and 06 content won't really be lost" - just displaced. If most don't then there will be a lot of "does- anyone-have-this" questions going around.

Personally I think all content creators need to:
1. Consider what they will do if Auran does (eventually) delete all 04 and 06 content.
2. Take whatever steps are necessary to preserve the appropriate files and images.
3. Consider where they will place thier content.
4. Consider how they will upload to the site.

Folks with 20 items don't have a problem. Uploading that many to a different site wouldn't take long but those with many more (like my 3500+) need a different method. My suggestion would be to burn them to a series of DVD's, mail to the site manager, and have him copy them into the site from the DVD's. Obviously this would have to be arranged in advance.

Like the Boy Scouts say "Be Prepared".

Ben

 

[JCitron]

Well, with this point I have to agree with you! The debate just get me Irish up abit!

I was going to say the same thing before, but didn't want to admit it.

John

 

[UP5521]

I don't like what I'm reading and all of the american steam locos from the 04 and 06 pages will be erased and I see this as a bad decision unless the they can be tweaked to have 09' and 10' textures which will be difficult!

 

[American_Connections]

Alternate Sources

Personally I think all content creators need to:
1. Consider what they will do if Auran does (eventually) delete all 04 and 06 content.
2. Take whatever steps are necessary to preserve the appropriate files and images.
3. Consider where they will place thier content.
4. Consider how they will upload to the site.
Ben

1. Third Party Sites
2. Website + personal files
3. Personal website, Trains Resource Diectory, or maybe the Trainz Pro Routes, just to mention a few.
4. With my website, all assets are packed into complete CDPs, all are 4.0 so eveyone can use them. Freeware is instant, and payware is direct after payment.

 

[bendorsey]

I'd probably chose the TPR site as I have a few items there already (because Aurans ever-changing automatic checks won't allow them thru even tho they generate no errors in Surveyor or Driver).

Lots of choices for folks. I just think we need to ready for the (eventual) deletion of 04 and 06 content from the DLS. Might not happen on September 1st but I suspect it will eventually occur.

Ben

 

[crohakon]

If the content does not work in native mode 2010 then it should not be allowed upload to the server. A simple concept. From what I understand, content created CORRECTLY for 2010 will work in 2004. So what is the problem? Learn how to fix the errors in your content that 2010 catches and 2004/2006 ignores and you can still upload your content.

 

[leeferr]

Mike,

First of all I may say that you are one of the top content creators. I think items of the 04/06 vintage will remain on the DLS as long as they are error free. Items that are created with current config file standards, and properly mapped textures, should work fine in earlier versions.

What is considered current standards is items that are error free. Not all items need the normal mapping. After spending nearly a month repairing items I had downloaded in the past, I feel that this will be a welcome change.

There were items with blatent typos in the configuration files, missing textures, incorrectly sized textures, and a host of other problems including wrong parameter values for such things as nightmode. Nightmode, for example is a binary value, a one or zero. Many of these errors were other numeric values.

Granted the error checking wasn't there in the past, but it's is there now, and should be used to the fullest.

John

John
I appreciate the compliment, but I really consider myself just an average creator. Some of my content is better than other of my content, but some is really pretty bad. Thanks anyway though.

I understand what the main goal is in all of this and I can agree with it in theory, but I still think it's a little misguided to get rid of all 04/06 content just because it's old if its error free. There's some pretty nice 'old' content out there that's error free.

One of my other problems with the whole issue is routes. There are a lot of fine routes out there that are going to disappear or have missing dependencies. I've got some Ashland Central routes on the DLS created in 04 and I'm sure that they have some faulty dependencies, but I'm in the process of creating the second route that merges with the AC-Cresent Mtn route and it just sort of dampens my creative juices to have spent hundreds of hours on these routes to know that I won't be able to put the new one up on the DLS and that the existing ones are probably going to disappear.

 

[gfisher]

If the content does not work in native mode 2010 then it should not be allowed upload to the server. A simple concept.

Yes. Simple but arrogant. It is that kind of attitude that really ticks off a lot of creators. But we can always vote with our feet, or more accurately, our wallets. And when I just checked the DLS I did not see a single item that you have created for any standard, so who are you to lecture us?

Ben, I don't think you have to worry about 06-04 content going away from DLS any time soon, as Dermmy has pointed out less than 1.5 percent of the loco and rolling stock content is for 09 and higher.

 

[Barry]

____________________

 

[Buffalo_trains93]

You make it sound like it's Auran's problem that you don't have the financial means to upgrade either your hard and or software. If you make the decision you use your hard earned money elsewhere: good for you! But others would like to move on and are willing to cough up the dough. Life is all about making choices.

Valishara,

In NO way would I ever blame Auran/NV3 for this, I was simpley stating, due to real life conditions some people cannot upgrade. I completeley agree with you on you whole statement, I was mereley pointing out that some people cannot afford to do so (Upgrade) and I am one of those people. Val, please tell me what in my post confuses you, so I can go back and correct it, to stop any further confusion,

I am terribley sorry, and in no way meant any disrespect to yourself, Auran, or anyone else, I was mereley stating and observation.

My apologies,

Take care,

Ryan:wave:

 

[leeferr]

If the content does not work in native mode 2010 then it should not be allowed upload to the server. A simple concept. From what I understand, content created CORRECTLY for 2010 will work in 2004. So what is the problem? Learn how to fix the errors in your content that 2010 catches and 2004/2006 ignores and you can still upload your content.

I checked the DLS to see how much of your content is 2009/10. Lo and behold, I couldn't find any of your content for any version. You're pretty demanding of creators aren't you. Are you volunteering your time to help the creators with faulty content fix their content. If not, don't be so free with our time.

Most of my content works fine, but some of it doesn't because of dependencies that are faulty and it's going to be a little tough to get some of those dependencies fixed since the original creators aren't around anymore. It'll be back to the drawing board on some of them.

 

[crohakon]

I checked the DLS to see how much of your content is 2009/10. Lo and behold, I couldn't find any of your content for any version. You're pretty demanding of creators aren't you. Are you volunteering your time to help the creators with faulty content fix their content. If not, don't be so free with our time.

I am actually meeting with a guy every Wednesday via Skype and he is teaching me how to use gmax to create content for Trainz. You are quite right, currently I have no content on the DLS as I am still learning the process. However, I stand by my words. If the content does not meet 2010 standards then it should not be allow upload to the DLS. Creators of content who use 2004 can create content that will work fine in native 2010. They just have to cross the "T's" and dot the "I's." I mean hell, half the time the reason the content does not work in native 2010 is because of spelling errors and/or extra files that just need to be removed. How hard is it for the content creators to fix THESE errors? If anything, content creators should be happy to have a new level of error checking as it will help you not miss those little typos that happen from time to time. I program PHP applications, I know how annoying it can be to miss a comma or forget to close a statement. If the browsers were not so strict half the code out on the internet would be rubbish. It is strict standards that makes the web go round and so it should be for DLS content. That way those who purchase the new version of the game do not have to play a constant game of rullet with their content downloads.

Give me time and I will start creating content. So hold your tongue for a bit about my lack of contribution to the DLS. =)

 

[crohakon]

Yes. Simple but arrogant. It is that kind of attitude that really ticks off a lot of creators. But we can always vote with our feet, or more accurately, our wallets. And when I just checked the DLS I did not see a single item that you have created for any standard, so who are you to lecture us?

Ben, I don't think you have to worry about 06-04 content going away from DLS any time soon, as Dermmy has pointed out less than 1.5 percent of the loco and rolling stock content is for 09 and higher.

I don't think that content created in 2004/2006 should be removed... unless it has errors. If it does not meet 2010 standards why should it not be removed? However, if the content can run in 2010 native I see no reason not to keep it, do you?

And how exactly am I being arrogant? This has nothing to do with personal pride.

I know Auran has made some stupid moves as of late. Hell, a handful of the built-in routes/session do not even function that were shipped with 2010. But, I happen to agree with this decision. It is my opinion, just as it is the opinion of others to disagree with the choice. So let us not resort to name calling. I made no personal attacks, and I would trust others to show the same respect.

 

[meridious]

If the content does not meet 2010 standards then it should not be allow upload to the DLS.

As of september, they won't be allowed anyways. Not with 04/06 build numbers.

Creators of content who use 2004 can create content that will work fine in native 2010. They just have to cross the "T's" and dot the "I's." I mean hell, half the time the reason the content does not work in native 2010 is because of spelling errors and/or extra files that just need to be removed. How hard is it for the content creators to fix THESE errors?

I've actually found alot of my content works perfectly fine but does show warnings. Those are being fixed though.

If anything, content creators should be happy to have a new level of error checking as it will help you not miss those little typos that happen from time to time.

This is true to a point. When uploading to the dls, it finds things that our versions don't find. This is and can be very aggrivating at times.

I program PHP applications,(snip)

Just where were you when TPR was looking for someone with php knowledge ? HMMMM ? Said in jest btw.

 

[johnwhelan]

I am actually meeting with a guy every Wednesday via Skype and he is teaching me how to use gmax to create content for Trainz. You are quite right, currently I have no content on the DLS as I am still learning the process. However, I stand by my words. If the content does not meet 2010 standards then it should not be allow upload to the DLS. Creators of content who use 2004 can create content that will work fine in native 2010. They just have to cross the "T's" and dot the "I's." I mean hell, half the time the reason the content does not work in native 2010 is because of spelling errors and/or extra files that just need to be removed. How hard is it for the content creators to fix THESE errors? If anything, content creators should be happy to have a new level of error checking as it will help you not miss those little typos that happen from time to time. I program PHP applications, I know how annoying it can be to miss a comma or forget to close a statement. If the browsers were not so strict half the code out on the internet would be rubbish. It is strict standards that makes the web go round and so it should be for DLS content. That way those who purchase the new version of the game do not have to play a constant game of rullet with their content downloads.

Give me time and I will start creating content. So hold your tongue for a bit about my lack of contribution to the DLS. =)

Try using Blender or 3DS if you want to get the best out of TS2010 ie the normal map stuff, GMAX doesn't really do this well but it can be done with additional programs.

We went round in circles trying to pin down what is TS2010 standard cf TRS2004 standard content. Eventually we came down to the fact it was subjective more than anything else. Normal mapping has been supported since TRS2004 SP4, bit buggy then but it worked. There is a new way of doing Lod but I haven't seen much detail on it yet and it doesn't alter the appearance compared to the old.

Cheerio John