Has anyone seen this video yet?

[nicky9499]

The only thing that could have avoided the crash would be a law where a lowboy truck would have to pull over to the side of a road, and inspector or RR official would come out and oversee the lowboy trailer crossing the RR, and notify trains to stop until the truck cleared the crossing.

That might be a little extreme. Simply use common sense.

In the worst-case scenario where if I had a lowboy in tow, lacking a prescribed route and useful information about this hazard, I'd do the following:

1. Approach crossing at very low speed, flashers on and ensuring that no vehicles behind you preventing a reverse maneuver if necessary.
2. Proceed forward with head out and constantly visually confirming that the lowboy is clearing the gradient.
3. If in doubt, quickly get out and visually confirm (from surface level) that the lowboy can and will clear the gradient.
4. Proceed forward in 3rd or 4th gear. The idea is to move under low torque.
5. If there is the slightest sign of resistance, immediately back away from the crossing.
5b. If the crossing is activated, immediately back away from the crossing.

This, of course, is in the worst case scenario lacking various measures that could have prevented such an accident. No police escort, no pilot car, no prescribed route, no assistant driver to provide visual guidance.

---

What the driver could've also done - since he would've obviously had the keys to the crane and assuming he had enough time if he was thinking on his feet - is to drive said crane off the trailer. A collision with a lighter, empty trailer might have been the difference between the locomotive flipping over or just derailing/sustaining mild damage. It might have even allowed him to drag the trailer clear of the crossing.

 

[wholbr]

Hi everybody.
Nicky9499, with every respect to your posting the one thing you would not have time for in any emergency with a low loader (or lowboy in the United States) would be to unload whatever was being carried on the vehicle. The low loader involved in the train collision was carrying a crane of some type which undoubtedly would be very heavy. Therefore it would be secured with chains and strainers to stop any slippage in transit. No matter how many ratchet straps any driver may use they simply would not be strong enough to reliably keep the crane secure.

Anyone who has ever used chains and strainers will know if you try to release the strainer quickly and not in line with safe working practices they are quite likely to fly up uncontrollably and fracture your arm or more commonly and worse still completely shatter your jaw. Even if you did manage to get the load securing released you would still have to get the loading ramps in place, get the crane started and drive it off. You then have to remove the low loader from the crossing.

The big problem when a semi-trailer low loader grounds out, is that no matter how slow you are going the weight of the trailer with its load will always push on after grounding for a couple of feet or so which puts upward pressure on the fifth wheel coupling. The foregoing will lift the weight off the drive axle(s) and although the driving wheels may appear to be in contact with the ground, when drive pressure is placed on them they just “scuff round” on the road surface under them.

Experienced drivers of low loaders will no doubt have had trailer groundings numerous times as it cannot always be avoided. The easiest and quickest way to release the vehicle is to place the trailer loading ramps narrow end first to the rear of the drive axles and then reverse. The drive wheels scuffing round will pull the ramps further under the wheels until the pressure of the thickening ramps creates enough upward lift to free the trailer.

The above practice is possibly what the driver of the vehicle in the collision was trying to carry out when the train hit the vehicle. It would also account for why he had not got himself clear of the vehicle prior to the collision.

In Britain you do not need to get any special permission to run low loader vehicles on the roads. However, on approach to all railway crossing there are laybys where low loader vehicles must stop, telephone the railway dispatcher and inform him he wishes to cross. The railway dispatcher will then slow all trains in the vicinity of the crossing to speed where should the vehicle become grounded the train would be able to stop within visual distance of seeing the vehicle.

I post the above based on my knowledge and experience of a lifetime in the road haulage industry. However, i feel we will need to await at least the preliminary accident investigation report to have some idea of what really where the chain of events in this incident.

Bill

 

[xcrossi]

The only person here that knows what he is talking about is wholbr and myself (retired)
Never put one in the ditch but scared myself real good a couple of times.
I don't talk to much ether.

 

[KingConrail76]

Just a comment, but as too needing a permit or not. That goes to wight and height , many of these construction don't. .......

Look closer at the video: 3 axle trailer with a 4th axle stinger (Each axle is good for 18-20,000 lbs = 76,000 lbs* JUST on trailer axles, plus 2-3 truck drive axles for another 38-58,000 lbs, plus 12,000 lbs for truck steering axle for a grand total of 126,000 to 146,000 lbs GVWR), and the crane hangs a foot off each side...Over-Weight**, AND Over-Sized***...Permits REQUIRED!

* - Federal DOT Bridge Laws say maximum axle loading of 20,000 lbs per single axle, when axle centers are more than 8~10 feet apart, Axles right next to each other are only good for 38,000 lbs per pair, 20K + 18K for each additional. In video, triple axle plus stinger over 10 feet long is 20k+18K+18K+20K.

** - Federal maximum Gross Vehicle Weight Rating of Combination vehicles is 80,000 Lbs., anything over this weight is REQUIRED to have over-weight Permits.

*** - Federal maximum vehicle width is 102 inches on approved roadways, and 96 inches everywhere else. Anything over those widths must be Permitted and placarded as "Oversized" or "Wide Load". Anything over 120 inches (10 feet) wide is required to have ONE escort vehicle. Anything over 144 inches (12 feet) wide is required to have TWO escort vehicles. Anything over 13 foot 6 inches high, from the road surface, is in excess height, and in addition to Permits and Escorts, requires the lead escort to have a height pole attached to vehicle to check clearances BEFORE the load gets to the obstacle.

Not on the same scale as the video, but as the owner of a Trucking company, and hauling over-sized loads too, I guess I'm a bit more qualified than Xcrossi on the matter..

 

[gtasa]

The crew is alright although a little banged up and that is all that matters in incidents like this.

 

[cascaderailroad]

If they get a decent lawyer ... I'll bet they will be on Workmens Comp, and disability, for the rest of their lives ... that was an extremely hard hit against a very solid object, and probably sent them flying into the loco dashboard and glass ! It spun the 2 locos around, and overturned them on opposite sides of the right of way, 25' distant the tracks, with 16 railcars piled up on them, one leaking argon gas.

 

[oknotsen]

that was an extremely hard hit against a very solid object, and probably sent them flying into the loco dashboard and glass ! It spun the 2 locos around, and overturned them on opposite sides of the right of way, 25' distant the tracks, with 16 railcars piled up on them, one leaking argon gas.

Or they had eyes in the front of their head, noticed the blockage of the track a mile ahead, applied the breaks and jumped off the train a few seconds before impact. They get a few scratches from a bad landing and maybe flying (soon to be) scrap, but that might sound like a more survivable solution to having 16 cars on top of you.
Would not be the first time and sure not be he last. Even if regulations tell them to "stay in the engine until it stopped".

 

[cascaderailroad]

I very much doubt that they "made like the birds" at 45 mph ... I am sure they rode it out ... it must have been a horrendous collision.

 

[nicky9499]

Just curious, does anyone know for a fact whether or not the crew's chances of survival increase if they proceed to the trailing locomotive's cab after spotting the obstruction and dumping the air?

 

[oknotsen]

Just curious, does anyone know for a fact whether or not the crew's chances of survival increase if they proceed to the trailing locomotive's cab after spotting the obstruction and dumping the air?

I don't have the facts for the US and/or fright trains, but I do know of collisions in my country with passenger trains in which the engineer died when staying in the cab and survived when fleeing the cab by either moving deeper into the train (in your case that would be trailing cab) or jumped out of the train moments before impact.

I hope we live in a world in which these things do not happen enough to results in useful (but painful) statistics.

 

[cascaderailroad]

Chances are that they saw the truck @ 30 seconds or less, and it would take @ longer than a minute to dump the air, and run back to the second loco, where they either would get thrown from the train, or get crumpled up in an accordion, zig zag derailment, caught up in the couplers or running gear ... either way ... leaving the cab ... your career would end by being fired anyway.

They had a few seconds of fright, only enough time to burst into a profuse sweat, and only enough time for a few choice curse words ... then BOOM !

 

[lego207]

Man, what really gets me is in the video you can see that Dash 9 jump on impact and see it tip over as the camera follows it. Just watching that locomotive tip over.. just, wow.

 

[Falcus]

Well, doing some research, I'm guessing thats a 35-50 ton Crane they're carrying (Anything bigger tends to get more Axles, and usually drives itself, late at night, often with Escorts of one form or another), Id wager the higher end of that for them to pay for that specific Low Boy with the extra Axle. Something like this:
http://www.bigge.com/crane-charts/rough-terrain-crane-charts/Grove-RT535E.pdf

So yea, Id have to agree that was something that was going to require a permit. I have no Idea what Louisiana's DoT requires though (Or what their processing is like), and though the FMCSR delineates certain things (I still have my Green and White Sleep Aid... Somewhere, but I really don't want to dig it out), the specific process' and handling will have been up to the state DoT..... And who knows where that goes..... For all we know the trucker is only there because he's interstate and hes lost (Though this is doubtful, interstate stuff gets real complicated real quick for oversize loads, you don't do it unless you have to).

I don't think the NTSB will come up with anything beyond "Truck stuck on tracks, hit by train, enjoy popcorn". Interesting is Defective Gas Tanks from Korea.... Grade Crossing accidents are always simply "oops" or at most "wow, I was stupid...". Even the Argon Gas Show was just.... wait for it.... "Smoke and mirrors".... Essentially as harmful as Helium, inert and a basic Asphyxiant.....

I do agree that Drivers across the transportation spectrum are under paid. Even pilots are starting out at as little $19/hr now (And I'm talking Freight Captains, not 1st year rookie Navigators). Oil goes up, people pay more and but make the same.... Pretty sweet gig if you're a CEO though.... New Idea: lets put a Grade Crossing in the Nabisco World Headquarters and see how many Golf Carts get "Caught in the head lights".....

@Cascaderailroad
Safest Place in a crash is the place designed for it.... The Cab.... Train gonna tip over? Id rather be a rattled sardine then a crushed ant (Anyone know what body parts were missing from Casey Jones' body? Or why?).

I wonder if "Safety Cabs" Have seat belts? Never been in one, so thats one detail I've overlooked....

Falcus

 

[wholbr]

Hi everybody.
It has been stated several times in this thread that truck drivers (known as HGV/LGV drivers in Britain are poorly paid. I can obviously only speak for British nationality drivers.

In the United Kingdom an experienced class I HGV driver (now known as LGV drivers) will earn on average £45,000 per year (72,000 US dollars). Those earning the forgoing salaries would be fuel tanker drivers (articulated vehicle hazchem licence holders). In the same earnings grouping are retail delivery drivers (supermarket roll cage handling) running double deck trailers etc. Class I night trunking drivers also receive similar salaries but can often earn somewhat higher wages depending on the distance/hours each trunking operation is scheduled for.

The above salaries are normally received for a shift schedule of four days on and three days off working a 12 hour shift. Should delays occur in loading, delivery or through traffic conditions shifts can be extended to 15 hours with no extra pay as the extra time worked has to be compensated for with a shorter shift within a set period days. Start and finish times are set by traffic coordinating schedules and can be at any time in the 24-hour day provided sufficient rest time has been gained between shifts.

Class 2 and 3 HGV licenced drivers earn proportionately less dependent on licence held and attachments held such as hazchem , hyab lifters and most of all experience which is also applicable to class I drivers.

The above £45,000 salaries should be judged against the overall British average salary for all occupations which is which is £26,000. There is a severe shortage of heavy goods drivers in United Kingdom at present with the average age of drivers now being 53 years old. There was at one time many Polish drivers coming to the United Kingdom for employment, but many of these have now returned to Poland as the economy there has picked up with consequent similar conditions for drivers being available.

Should anyone wish to obtain and HGV/LGV driving licence in the UK you have to pass a medical test, followed by a hazard perception examination, followed by a multiple-choice theory examination, followed by a one and a half hour practical driving test which has to be absolutely perfect.All the forgoing examinations have to be taken each time you step up your licence grade (example class 3 to 2, class 2 to 1). To retain your licence you have to undergo a minimum of 40 hour classroom theory/re-traing course prior to renewing your licence every five years.

The above is why there is such a shortage of heavy goods drivers in Britain at present.

Bill

 

[Railwoodman]

This accident looks to be from a unsupported driver, working a regular heavy haul load. I have personally seen this happen hundreds of times, but not on rails, as too tight turn and drop-offs and high rail crossings. I feel for all those involved, but the moving of heavy construction equipment in this country moves many times with only a wide load flag posted to the front and rear of the truck hauling the load. If any trouble is experiences, it's left to the driver alone to work out. Permits for excessive weight, height or length usually come with escort trucks or cars to look for problems. They also have to drive a approved route, and are many time planed weeks in advanced . My state also requires a state trooper to escort or meet at the State line, to help with traffic control with tight turns and crossing. This would depend on the length of route and in-pack to traffic to be traveled . From what I see in this video, none of these were present. The crossing in this accident cry's out as to being one that a low hauling truck of any kind would have issue with, as the road appears to drop off or isn't level with the other side. And should of been avoided at all costs . Although this may not been know by the driver by then to it was too late . The same can be said about low bridges.

Not familiar with the area, is this on a curve for the road or rail ? As to the time anyone knew or saw and had time to react.

 

[Falcus]

Not familiar with the area, is this on a curve for the road or rail ? As to the time anyone knew or saw and had time to react.

http://goo.gl/maps/HD6xY
Zoom out for a laugh, talk about "Box construction". That said, Slight curve ~8 blocks south, the direction the train was coming from.

But the driver tried to cross from being parallel.... Which was dumb to begin with.... You don't take things at any other angle then "90" when clearances are in question..... I'm thinking the driver had never taken a low boy over that crossing before..... And I question how experienced he was, because when you take the CDL test one of the things they mention, several times, is Low Boys and Railroad crossings (At least they do in WA).

As far as Permitting goes, there are permits that don't require escorts. But it still has to be permitted, for this reason exactly. Generally any moving permit will however require a pre-selected route..... But /shrug.

Falcus

 

[wholbr]

Hi everybody.
Further to my posting at # 34 of this thread regarding the training and qualifications that heavy goods vehicle drivers require to obtain and maintain a licence to drive on British roads (and many in other European countries) the road haulage Association has just put out the following statement on the BBC and sky News (Sunday 12[SUP]th[/SUP] of October)
Statement follows: -
Road Hauliers In Christmas Deliveries Warning
The Freight Transport Association says there is a growing shortage of lorry drivers in Britain which needs to be addressed. Hauliers are warning that a national shortage of lorry drivers could hit deliveries to shops and stores in the run-up to Christmas. They say the cost of obtaining a licence and strict EU rules are putting off many would-be drivers.

"What we're concerned about is that as things start to ramp up around Christmas... there just simply won't be enough drivers available to make all the deliveries that are needed," said Natalie Chapman of the Freight Transport Association. According to the organisation, 60% of lorry drivers are 50 or over, while just 1% are under the age of 25.

Chris Stevenson, 24, from Bloxwich, told Sky News he is desperate to become a lorry driver. "It's the freedom of the job really. Seeing a bit of the country, maybe seeing a bit if the world, doing continental driving, you can get around a bit - (it) beats being stuck in one place all the while. However, three unsuccessful attempts to get his HGV licence have cost him £2,500 so far.

John Heighway, transport manager at Devaneys Haulage, says such costs and the image of the profession have resulted in too few young people wanting to join it. "It's quite desperate really. We could have enough work for an extra 10 vehicles. “But we just don't have the drivers to cover it, so we just have to turn work down which is something we don't like doing."

Hauliers say the problem is being made worse by EU rules which require experienced drivers to undertake further costly training - or face a large fine. Roy Reynolds, 68, from Wolverhampton had been driving for 41 years and like many others decided to quit. "Now regulations are coming in where you've got to go back to the classroom. "I don't feel that I need to do that with the experience that I've gained over a number of years. It just seems pointless, so I decided to retire." STATEMENT ENDS

The above statement by the most prominent transport organisation in United Kingdom sadly demonstrates the lack of young people wishing to join the transport industry. Even those who may be interested in joining the profession are being “put off” by the high cost of training together with a high possibility of failure at any stage of that training.

With the above in mind, it has to be stated that the training required to become heavy goods driver now far exceeds the training needed to become a train driver due to the far higher skill levels required to drive modern-day trucks. As already demonstrated in this thread, even with all that training and qualifications, when something goes wrong everyone including the courts always want to point to the truck driver and shout “it was all his fault so what a boozo”.

It is a job where you are out on your own with enormous responsibilities as the accident at this crossing has demonstrated, and yet it is a job which gains little respect from the general public unlike those of the train driver. The foregoing is a situation I have never been able to reason why.

Perhaps after this Christmas with a shortage of products in the shops and home deliveries, the British public will have little more respect for their local truck driver.

Bill

 

[Falcus]

@wholbr
This is a bit off topic, but I respect the subject matter, if for no other reason then I've lived(living? questionable) it.

The U.S. is approaching the same debacle. One driver makes a mistake, and the response is industry wide regulation additions.... My Grandfather got a Trucking job by being invited to the Yard, being asked if he could drive a stick, and catching the keys out of the air when the foreman threw them at his head.... Was a Trucker for 30+ odd years.....

These days, the cost of a CDL A Combination License (Which means Juggernauts with ONLY Dry Vans, no Tankers or anything else) will run you a minimum of $4000 (I've been quoted as high as $6000). Included in that price is a mandatory, nation wide, requirement for 187+ Hours behind the wheel time with a certified Trainer...... Only way around that price is to either find a Community College that offers a course, or to sign up with Swift, CR England, Schneider, or one of the other OTR companies which invariably ends up with you stuck in a cab (Read 8x15x8ft box) for 3 month shifts with 2 other guys you don't want to know for at least 2 years of your life.....

And yet, for all of this, we still get things like what happened on the 5th of this month..... Why? Because Additional Rules will never teach people *CRITICAL THINKING SKILLS*, and its going to always be like this, and politicians and society at large would do well to figure this out, but probably won't because they haven't in more then 2000 years of recorded history (Records go further back I know, but this is the number I know of off the top of my head). That all said, Rules will never remove human error either for that matter, the simple "Gee, I forgot", or "Oops, I made a mistake", for any number of reasons.....

I'm waiting for the exact situation you're describing to happen here in the U.S. I figure 2 decades at the outside, give or take 5 years..... Only thing that will change this is if we keep getting more foreign nationals showing up that are ok with the OTR Situation as it is, that will drag it out even further.....

Falcus

 

[xcrossi]

New sign soon to be on DLS....Don't let this happen to you