Greece

[paradin]

Hi,

I hope I am posting to the right forum, as this is my first post.

I am planning to crate a number of routes in Greece, starting with the one between Ikonio Container Port to the Thriasio Logistics Centre.

I have the necessary track diagrams of the area, and I can deduce from Google Earth the tracks and civil engineering works that are missing. What I am not sure about are the tools at my disposal for creaing the terrain and the trackage for the route. I am aware of TransDEM as a tool, but I am wondering if there are other tools out there that you gys may have come across. Any suggestions will be gratefully received.

paradin

 

[mezzoprezzo]

Hello Paradin.

Welcome to the Trainz Forums! (Yes, this is the right one)


DEM software

Definitely best for creating large prototypical areas, without question. Trying to do it by hand over a large area is nigh on impossible.

Smaller prototypical areas can be refined by hand using the Surveyor terrain tools. Those tools are essential for modelling historical areas where modern DEM data won’t show old filled in quarries, embankments, cuttings etc.

Fictitious routes, even very large ones, are worth building from scratch by hand. It's a good method of leaning how all of the on board building tools behave, and mastering your Surveyor skills which eventually will become automatic.


Basemaps

Small scale maps copied onto one of the Trainz basemap assets will help enormously. There are 720metre (baseboard size) and 1km square versions on the DLS. It allows you to place an image of a map, or photograph on a flat plane which you can raise or lower on your baseboard.

You can use track, or invisible track, to overlay the contours of a map for example. Raise them to the contour height and fill the terrain to pull the surface up to contour level. I’ve used maps with 1:500 scale "stuck" to a basemap which provides details of both rails of individual tracks, turntables, sheds, signal boxes etc, which makes track laying and positioning points, platforms yards a much easier process.

There are a number of threads about basemaps which are easy to find. Google is usually better than the Forum search. Try Googling Auran Trainz Basemaps.


Google Earth

GE, as you have discovered, is a great source of material for Trainz, including basemap images, not forgetting the historical function. Some of the Google historical imagery goes back to the 1940s. It’s always worth scanning back through the years on offer, because even without the need for historical features, some will show better track and landscape imagery than others.


Cheers
Casper

 

[paradin]

Thanks for that Caspar,

I had a first look at the content that you suggested and discovered another world!

I expect to be busy, and quiet, for some time!!

Thanks again,
Nick

 

[kamran]

this is a very nice guy from greece. i hope this will be very helpful for you
http://forums.auran.com/trainz/member.php?477090-Aristides

 

[Vern]

Greece has reasonable coverage on Open Street Map these days. The line I would like to see one day is that through the Bralos Tunnel and on towards Domokos, but I think it would probably require local knowledge to do it justice.

 

[paradin]

this is a very nice guy from greece. i hope this will be very helpful for you
http://forums.auran.com/trainz/member.php?477090-Aristides

Thanks kamran, at least I won't feel alone any more

 

[paradin]

Greece has reasonable coverage on Open Street Map these days. The line I would like to see one day is that through the Bralos Tunnel and on towards Domokos, but I think it would probably require local knowledge to do it justice.

Vern,
1. Yes, but I cannot find elevation details on OSM. Am I not looking in the right place?
2. A great route which will, in the near future be replaced by a diversion from Tithorea, through the Kallidromo tunnels and then via Molos to Lianokladi, where it re-joins the old route, thus avoiding the current mountainous route. The scars on the landscape can be seen on Google Earth. North of Lianokladi there will be further realignments, including a fairly long tunnel under Mount Othrys
3. You mention "local knowledge". Why is that essential?
4. If you were to give advise to a novice, which tools/papers/etc would you recommend?
Regards, Nick
Regards, Nick

 

[Vern]

As regards elevations, my recommended course of action would be to buy Transdem. This will import the DEM elevation data overlaid with mapping of your choice, ready to work on in Surveyor. I'm not aware of any detailed gradient profiles or track plans for Greek railways available online, however most of the country is well covered in Google Earth allowing the track layout to be discerned fairly easily.

Given Greece is almost bankrupt, what are the chances of the new line ever being finished or even a railway system at all in the country, given the Peloponnese (sp) narrow gauge network already largely succumbed to closures due to the economy?!

Local knowledge not essential but it probably helps - however there are probably more enthusiasts from around the world who would like to recreate Greek railways, than Trainz owners living locally who would be able to build such a route - so go for it definitely! Maybe I'll take a look at something too, next year.

 

[paradin]

As regards elevations, my recommended course of action would be to buy Transdem. This will import the DEM elevation data overlaid with mapping of your choice, ready to work on in Surveyor. I'm not aware of any detailed gradient profiles or track plans for Greek railways available online, however most of the country is well covered in Google Earth allowing the track layout to be discerned fairly easily.

Given Greece is almost bankrupt, what are the chances of the new line ever being finished or even a railway system at all in the country, given the Peloponnese (sp) narrow gauge network already largely succumbed to closures due to the economy?!

Local knowledge not essential but it probably helps - however there are probably more enthusiasts from around the world who would like to recreate Greek railways, than Trainz owners living locally who would be able to build such a route - so go for it definitely! Maybe I'll take a look at something too, next year.

Vern,

I'll get TransDEM.

There is EVERY chance of the new lines being finished since (i) these are major projects which were in an advanced stage of completion before the crisis struck and have been given priority, partly because of the added value they produce for the rural economy, (ii) there has been a major reduction in private car usage, due to the crisis, with a resulting increase in public transport usage and (iii) rail fares are much below those of the competing long-distance motor-coaches.

As far as the Peloponnese network is concerned, the Athens-Corinth-Kiato Standard-gauge line is now complete, electrified and in operation and the line onwards to Patras is one of the strategic projects mentioned in (i) above. As for the rest of the network... well, we shall have to hope for a change in government, as SYRIZA have declared themselves to be pro-railway.

I see what you mean about local knowledge. I don't consider myself knowledgeable enough to attempt to model the Tithorea-Domokos section, that is why I would like to try the Ikonio-Thriasio branch which has all the challenges of the former in a smaller scale.

Regards, Nick

 

[John514]

I`m in as well! You can ask m anything about Greece + Trainz!

Kalampaka - Palaiofarsalos route is comming shortly!