Fix Surveyor 2.0 Bug

[AdvancedApproach]

In SP4, surveyor 2.0 would allow you to make changes in areas where baseboards did not exist without adding on baseboards. For example, you wanted to paint within in marquee but a green box was present, pointing out a baseboard not added on the map. Well you could paint within marquee without adding baseboards. Now you overlap into another baseboard not on your map even a little bit one would be added. I don't like that at all because I did not specifically instruct the game to add more baseboards to the route. This needs to be fixed, pronto.

 

[martinvk]

How do you do that? If there is no baseboard to support the painted on texture, what is it texturing on?

 

[AdvancedApproach]

How do you do that? If there is no baseboard to support the painted on texture, what is it texturing on?

It's adding the baseboards and then applying a texture.

 

[pware]

Well you could paint within marquee without adding baseboards.

I have to disagree. I wrote the following about a year ago using a much earlier version than SP5.

Left Click and Drag to draw out the Marquee Selection Area area so that it covers the area that will be painted with the texture. This can include multiple baseboards and empty spaces. Note: If empty spaces are included in the Marquee Selection Area then new baseboards will be created in those empty spaces

See the Trainz Wiki How_to_Use_S20_Tools: Baseboard_Ground_Texture

The height brush did not add a new baseboard when used within a marquee area that strayed over empty space.

 

[AdvancedApproach]

Note: If empty spaces are included in the Marquee Selection Area then new baseboards will be created in those empty spaces

N3V NEEDS to fix this.

 

[ZecMurphy]

Good Evening All
This is just to confirm that this is intended functionality in Surveyor 2.0 (and has been the case since the initial full release). As pware noted, a part of this is that when you select an area, you are telling Trainz to perform that operation on the entire area; if the selection extends beyond the baseboard edge then you are telling Trainz you want the operation to occur there, and hence it will need to create a baseboard to perform this operation. Surveyor 2.0 will create highlights where new baseboards will be created if you perform an action using a marquee selection.

If you do not wish for a new baseboard to be added, then you simply need to ensure that your marquee selection does not extend beyond the edge of the baseboard (ie no green highlighted 'baseboards' outside of the current baseboard get displayed).

Regards

 

[pware]

N3V NEEDS to fix this.

The problem with using the marquee tool to paint large areas, including entire empty baseboards, is that you will always get a repeating pattern formed in the ground textures. I prefer to use a large texture brush to paint large areas, including complete blank baseboards, with a series of multiple brush sweeps. While painting I can vary:-

• the texture rotation angle using the "[" and "]" keys for left and right rotations,
• the brush radius using the "+" and "-" keys to increase and decrease the radius, and
• the texture scale value using the ";" key to reduce the scale

all of which help to eliminate the repeating patterns. It is not possible to do this when using the marquee tool to add ground textures so you have to go over the area again using the texture brush and the various keys listed above, effectively painting it twice.

 

[JCitron]

The problem with using the marquee tool to paint large areas, including entire empty baseboards, is that you will always get a repeating pattern formed in the ground textures. I prefer to use a large texture brush to paint large areas, including complete blank baseboards, with a series of multiple brush sweeps. While painting I can vary:-

• the texture rotation angle using the "[" and "]" keys for left and right rotations,
• the brush radius using the "+" and "-" keys to increase and decrease the radius, and
• the texture scale value using the ";" key to reduce the scale

all of which help to eliminate the repeating patterns. It is not possible to do this when using the marquee tool to add ground textures so you have to go over the area again using the texture brush and the various keys listed above, effectively painting it twice.

Be careful when rotating PBR textures and rotate them sparingly. From what I read somewhere, I think when PBR textures were first introduced, that rotating the textures the way we used to using the [ , ] keys excessively can cause really poor performance.

 

[pware]

Be careful when rotating PBR textures and rotate them sparingly. From what I read somewhere ... can cause really poor performance.

I also heard that. Something about each rotation loading a complete new copy of the texture.

However, after using the rotation keys, [ and ], with PBR textures used exclusively everywhere throughout a very large route, with high detail thrown in for good measure, there has been no noticeable performance hit.

 

[JCitron]

I also heard that. Something about each rotation loading a complete new copy of the texture.

However, after using the rotation keys, [ and ], with PBR textures used exclusively everywhere throughout a very large route, with high detail thrown in for good measure, there has been no noticeable performance hit.

That's good to know. I've been very careful about rotating because of the concern.

 

[AdvancedApproach]

Good Evening All
This is just to confirm that this is intended functionality in Surveyor 2.0 (and has been the case since the initial full release). As pware noted, a part of this is that when you select an area, you are telling Trainz to perform that operation on the entire area; if the selection extends beyond the baseboard edge then you are telling Trainz you want the operation to occur there, and hence it will need to create a baseboard to perform this operation. Surveyor 2.0 will create highlights where new baseboards will be created if you perform an action using a marquee selection.

If you do not wish for a new baseboard to be added, then you simply need to ensure that your marquee selection does not extend beyond the edge of the baseboard (ie no green highlighted 'baseboards' outside of the current baseboard get displayed).

Regards

There's only one problem here, the textures won't cover baseboard edges unless you overextend them. Case in point:

 

[AdvancedApproach]

Also, this NEVER happened to me in SP4. This is a problem with 2.0 painting within marquee. Now I have to create a new baseboard just so paint jobs cover the entire baseboard. The only solution to that is Surveyor Classic. Not a big fan of subjecting myself to any unnecessary inconvenience.

 

[pware]

There's only one problem here, the textures won't cover baseboard edges unless you overextend them.

I always use the brush tool when painting the edges of the baseboard at the edge of "the world". This has always been the case even before the marquee tool and Surveyor 2.0 arrived so nothing has changed for me.

Also, this NEVER happened to me in SP4. This is a problem with 2.0 painting within marquee. Now I have to create a new baseboard just so paint jobs cover the entire baseboard.

Then don't use the marquee tool for painting at the edge of a terminal baseboard. I rarely use the marquee tool for painting anyway because it does not allow textures to be rotated and resized during the process and therefore leaves the painted area with a repeating textured pattern. As I pointed out in post #7 above, that means I have to paint the area again using the brush control keys subjecting me to an "unnecessary inconvenience".

I don't know what you were doing with SP4 but as both Zec and I have pointed out in posts above, this has always been the case with the marquee tool.

My experiences.

 

[pware]

Be careful when rotating PBR textures and rotate them sparingly. From what I read somewhere, I think when PBR textures were first introduced, that rotating the textures the way we used to using the [ , ] keys excessively can cause really poor performance.

I just did a comparison test.

I started with my large route (201MB in Content Manager) that is mostly covered with a single PBR texture painted using the [ and ] keys. I used the Classic Bulk Replace Asset feature (because it allows me to replace a texture without using the original rotation and scaling) with the same texture at its default settings.

There was a 5% reduction in the Content Manager file size, There was no noticeable improvement in performance.

EDIT: I just ran the full route (with the rotating PBR textures) and session on my oldest and slowest test machine with a GTX GPU and it ran without any performance hit and no noticeable stuttering.

 

[AdvancedApproach]

I don't know what you were doing with SP4 but as both Zec and I have pointed out in posts above, this has always been the case with the marquee tool.

My experiences.

I didn't have that happen to me in SP4. Perhaps it was a bug or I lucked up.

 

[pware]

I didn't have that happen to me in SP4

Easy enough to get confused. Perhaps you were using the marquee tool to set the terrain height, not the texture. That does not create a new baseboard.

 

[AdvancedApproach]

Easy enough to get confused. Perhaps you were using the marquee tool to set the terrain height, not the texture. That does not create a new baseboard.

I did that yesterday and it did create a new baseboard. I'll record it for evidence.

 

[pware]

using the marquee tool to set the terrain height, not the texture. That does not create a new baseboard.

Sorry, that information is incorrect. The marquee tool will create a new baseboard if the selection area strays over empty space when it is used to set the ground height.

I did that yesterday and it did create a new baseboard.

Then it is working as expected.

 

[martinvk]

In Trainz22PE 128487 using S2.0
Created a new single baseboard.
Drew a marquee in one corner that extended out and proposed three new ones with a green highlight.
Drew a texture along one edge. Went over the edge and tried to paint on the green but nothing happened
Increased the height of land along the other edge. Again went over the edge and nothing happened.
No new baseboard appeared.

Strange I could paint and raise the land outside the marquee boundary. Is there a setting to restrict this?

Only if I select Paint Within Marquee do the new baseboards get created.
Likewise, the currently selected texture will be applied withing the marquee and Set Marquee to Brush Height will apply the current Height value within the marquee.

So DON'T select these two options if you don't want this to happen.

 

[pware]

Went over the edge and tried to paint on the green but nothing happened
Increased the height of land along the other edge. Again went over the edge and nothing happened.
No new baseboard appeared.

You have to open the Context Menu of the Marquee Selection Area (the green boxes) from its icon, or press the T key, and select Set Marquee to Brush Height. This sets the entire new baseboard(s) to that height. It does not work when using the brush tool as I indicated in previous posts - which tells you how often I use the marquee tool to set baseboard heights (or textures).