Fallen Flag Reporting Marks and Numbers

[dricketts]

Why is it that you still see old fallen flag reporting marks and car numbers in use? For example I routinely see ATSF rolling stock on with it's original reporting marks and numbers. It's been close to 20 years since the creation of the BNSF. Wouldn't this be confusing for the railroads? Some rolling stock has its' marks painted over and redone but a lot do not.

 

[sawyer811]

I'm not sure on the ATSF stuff, but I know that when Conrail was split between NS and CSX, the two former roads lacked enough space on their rosters for all the freight stock they were getting. As a result (If I remember right) CSX started using New York Central (NYC) reporting marks on many of their ex-Conrail cars, and NS did the same but with PRR reporting marks.

If I had to guess, often it boils down to not having enough space on the roster like above. I also know that sometimes the first chance to shop and repaint a freight car can be 10 or more years after the merger.

 

[dricketts]

When you say "lacked enough space"... couldn't they just slap their reporting numbers on the side and add some digits to the roster? I would think dealing with all these old road reporting marks 20 + years after the fact would be confusing to say the least. Even for someone working with them every day.

 

[JIb228]

Numbers are often reserved for specific car types. So numbers 100-500 could be reserved for hoppers. The other reason for this is duplicate numbers. A car lettered and numbered ATSF 153887 might share the same number as NS 153887. While they could be re-lettered, its just esaier to keep it as is and just refer to it as an ATSF car.

That, and its nice getting to see all those old railroads still be represented.

 

[UPRails834]

When you say "lacked enough space"... couldn't they just slap their reporting numbers on the side and add some digits to the roster? I would think dealing with all these old road reporting marks 20 + years after the fact would be confusing to say the least. Even for someone working with them every day.

Maybe I don't understand your question but I'm not sure why you feel that having reporting marks from fallen flags would be confusing. The railroads and its employees view reporting marks as just some letters and numbers. We could care less about whether a car says ATSF 12345 or BNSF 12345. I think you're tying a railroad name to a reporting mark as in "ATSF=Santa Fe" but it isn't necessary for a railroad worker to understand what "ATSF" means.

Also to clarify why the railroads cannot add additional digits to the car numbers, railroad car reporting/computer systems are only designed to understand up to 4 digits for locomotives and up to 6 six digits for freight cars. This is why after the Union Pacific acquisition of the Southern Pacific that UP created a new reporting mark for it's yard locomotives (UPY) because they wanted to keep certain locomotives in specific number ranges and there wasn't enough numbers available with the 4 digit limitation.

 

[JohnnyC1]

The biggest factor maybe coast & obsolesce. Coast; why pull a car out of service just to paint it, paint when the car comes in for required FRA inspection. Obsolescence; the car maybe nearing it's end of life cycle, freight cars after set years/miles are prohibited from being interchanged with other RR's so they are scraped or used in-house as MOW.

John

 

[dricketts]

Maybe I don't understand your question but I'm not sure why you feel that having reporting marks from fallen flags would be confusing. The railroads and its employees view reporting marks as just some letters and numbers. We could care less about whether a car says ATSF 12345 or BNSF 12345. I think you're tying a railroad name to a reporting mark as in "ATSF=Santa Fe" but it isn't necessary for a railroad worker to understand what "ATSF" means.

Also to clarify why the railroads cannot add additional digits to the car numbers, railroad car reporting/computer systems are only designed to understand up to 4 digits for locomotives and up to 6 six digits for freight cars. This is why after the Union Pacific acquisition of the Southern Pacific that UP created a new reporting mark for it's yard locomotives (UPY) because they wanted to keep certain locomotives in specific number ranges and there wasn't enough numbers available with the 4 digit limitation.

I never have worked on a railroad or anywhere around one so I just didn't know. Maybe it's not important to a brakeman or conductor who the car belongs to but I'm assuming it's very important to someone in finance. After more thought I'm sure railroad accounting systems know who ATSF21457 and MKT4512 belong to. It's a combination of letters and numbers that make the car unique.

Thanks for the reply. It makes sense now.

 

[UPRails834]

I never have worked on a railroad or anywhere around one so I just didn't know. Maybe it's not important to a brakeman or conductor who the car belongs to but I'm assuming it's very important to someone in finance. After more thought I'm sure railroad accounting systems know who ATSF21457 and MKT4512 belong to. It's a combination of letters and numbers that make the car unique.

Thanks for the reply. It makes sense now.

Ah! Now I see your way of thinking. Somebody would need to know who to bill/pay for the usage of car ATSF 12345. I'm sure somewhere in the accounting department a person (and more likely a computer) knows that ATSF 12345 belongs to the BNSF Railway.

But as been said by several others above the are many reasons why fallen flag reporting marks remain in use.