amigacooke
Well-known member
These are not commercial organisations who have to turn a profit to provide income for the employees and for future development.
End of Support for Anything below TS12
- Thread starter torino72
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amigacooke
Well-known member
Percentages never your strong point?
KUDOS Pware! And to Oknotse for the next post translating the facts to the sick, lame, or too lazy to read! All to many around here forget to look at the TrainzOnline wiki, let me point out a couple of links others should bookmark:
- The CCG or Content Creator's Guide (CCGTC pages) -- are the only N3V era text base resource which takes a stab and teaching the fundamentals of the Trainz Data Model in some kind of reasonable continuity. It is a must read for anyone trying to learn to make content, and for repairing older stuff. The TrainzOnline Wiki is the current authority and has the last word for any technical differences between the two, but is stupidly lacking back history or mentions of how to transition data and links poorly to much of anything. (Don't blame me. I was doing my part. Trivia: Tony Hilliam seems these days to be the most frequent editor. At least he writes clearly.)
- The Wiki Special Pages -- For example, most linked to pages and most linked to categories -- the later shows a whooping big nine member pages in the category Config tag -- The TBS seems under represented by exposition. However, various search page links "All pages with prefix", Well these will give you the idea.
- Maintenance reports
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[TD]- Broken redirects
- Dead-end pages
- Double redirects
- Long pages
- Oldest pages
- Orphaned pages
- Pages with the fewest revisions
- Pages without language links
- Protected pages
- Protected titles
- Short pages
[TD][/TD]
[TD]- Uncategorized categories
- Uncategorized files
- Uncategorized pages
- Uncategorized templates
- Unused categories
- Unused files
- Unused templates
- Wanted categories
- Wanted files
- Wanted pages
- Wanted templates
[TD][/TD]
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Recent changes and logs
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The key point is there are links for all sorts of information, including new pages and page changes so one can check now and again what has been updated or happening. If a particular type of report is of interest, you can set up and RSS feed notification and get an update if and when pages of interest are modified. So if you script, create content, or contribute edits, you can see what happens. The special pages are linked in the Mediawiki skins as either a header or sidebar, but always there.
That would rather shoot their own business model in the foot. Their revenue stream according to the above is DLC/DRM fueled.
Oh, WELL PUT! Dumping the customers is exactly the way to get a customer to dump you. They have the same mindset as H222, Nick and such that 3-5 years is a long time. I say, we buy the product and put up with N3V sometimes 'they did what' actions because we expect that free content library to keep on growing--for any and all versions. // F
I hadn't heard TS12 was having import issues with routes from older versions. I had one ear in some TS12+SP1 thread last summer and fall but it got awful long to pay a lot of attention to, while I hadn't yet opened the box! If I work two years of my free time then can't share it, well--it's another strong indication these guys don't use their own product like we route builders do. It's disgusting. // F
I'd hope to think TPR or a consortium of other long established hosting sites will be taking a hard look at recruiting CC's to put their 'obsolete by fiat routes and sessions there instead. I'm already having trouble finding kuids I downloaded last winter, disabled them (TS12 didn't like something) then deleted them figuring to clean the house then add HF4. Did you know you can't download or import a cdp if the asset is disabled and deleted? A PITA! Fortunately I've found most were cross-imported from TS09 or TS10 directories. Turns out you can re-import them if disabled... but wonder if I deleted them, why they would be disabled in assets.tdx (instead of just being 'disappeared'). The implication is that the asset once it's in the index, stays in the index. // Frank
jacksonbarno
Alco Spoken Here
By "I am still running it," I meant it is still that version. The only reason I bought it is for the HSC route which I need track arrangements for. The actual sim superficially looks nice, but looks can be deceiving. That is what I m scared of with TANE. Trainz is undoubtably the best sim out there. It combines looks with an easy learning curve, decent fps on most computers, and great functionality. To see that go away would be awful, but I fear that we are already losing our grasp. First with DRM and now this. I only brought up Railworks to bring up a point about the competitor that provides another option, albeit maybe a bad one, but another point. In doing so, I have opened up a whole new can of worms which I see a bit more clearly now. N3V is trying to do what Railworks is doing, but more discreetly: slowly dropping older versions at an increasing rate until the next sim comes out. It's sad to see, but it is the harsh reality.
No matter what Tony Hillam or any of the fanboys say, this is a bad direction for Trainz. Very bad.
No matter what Tony Hillam or any of the fanboys say, this is a bad direction for Trainz. Very bad.
Look up hyperbole in the dictionary. Should I spell it for you or EXPLAIN IT with small words and big pictures? DBASA! // Frank
Hi Vern.
1. When you buy an FCT (with an older Trainz version), you pay for access to the DLS, that is all. When I bring my '93 Golf to the workshop I pay to get my motor serviced, but I don't expect an updated Bluemotion TDI engine as well, same thing.
2. MSTS is now self-sufficient, lives on without a corporate entity responsible for it (at present) and as such shouldn't be compared to Trainz.
3. I bought TS12 two years ago for A$35. I think come 2016 I'd be happy to buy a newer product - on condition that N3V doesn't screw up. This "door slamming" that you speak of? It's called end-of-life, which I believe has already been explained a dozen times in this thread.
1. When you buy an FCT (with an older Trainz version), you pay for access to the DLS, that is all. When I bring my '93 Golf to the workshop I pay to get my motor serviced, but I don't expect an updated Bluemotion TDI engine as well, same thing.
2. MSTS is now self-sufficient, lives on without a corporate entity responsible for it (at present) and as such shouldn't be compared to Trainz.
3. I bought TS12 two years ago for A$35. I think come 2016 I'd be happy to buy a newer product - on condition that N3V doesn't screw up. This "door slamming" that you speak of? It's called end-of-life, which I believe has already been explained a dozen times in this thread.
jacksonbarno
Alco Spoken Here
Essentially, N3V has chosen to drop perfectly good versions and block uploads and downloads to the DLS, including updates for all of the users currently on those versions. This is somewhat of a scary move seeing as they are choosing to drop TS12 in two years as well. We aren't angry about the drop in support, we are angry about the blocking of uploads and downloads.
Correction: Nobody is blocking downloads - whatever <TB 2.9 assets already on the DLS can still be downloaded.
Continuing to allow old-version uploads is by extension continued support of these old-versions. It's like if your car of model X is has ceased production a few years ago and now they're going to stop manufacturing spare parts for model X, are you going to go after them with torches and pitchforks?
Interesting point, and one that has been rather bothersome as an overall social problem. It rather ironic that people and especially companies are stepping all over each other to pretend to be so "green", but today they are so damn engrossed in consumerism and materialism that they make those from the 70s and 80s look like a bunch of tree-hugging hippies. They just need to buy, buy, BUY. Especially when it comes to technology.
Oh, it's more important than ever to be SEEN with the most current gadget. Ever notice iPhone cases almost always have a cut out around the apple in the back? Why have an iPhone if people can't SEE that you have an iPhone?
But, on another level, I find the whole thing funny, too.
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amigacooke
Well-known member
You can try, but if you're prone to excessive exaggeration for effect I'm going to lose interest very quickly. It tends to be used by those who have shaky arguments and therefore have to try to bully people into line.
Ok, so, going along with your comparison, let's extend the service life of software to 20 years or so, when parts might actually start to get scarce. And, just in case you're going to throw out the argument that technology advances faster than cars, I generally have no trouble getting parts for my Apple ][+ or my arcade machines.
amigacooke
Well-known member
Like many threads it's a rehash of old arguments (from both sides) which has the sole purpose of keeping its combatants entertained.
You can have the last word when you calm down, stop insisting N3V and its products are a giant conspiracy and/or continue to write off topic novellas. I have spelt it out as clear as daylight what this TB 3.5> decision is about and even your good pal RRSignal agrees.
Looking down on anyone younger than you, expecting people to regret over your opinion of them and calling people who purchase a product of their liking "freaks"? That's a textbook example of cocky, Frank. Lead by example.
Pardon me for being direct but if I may say so, you're being quite the spectacle too.
The content library aka DLS is not free to operate. If you would like to take over the responsibility of keeping it running I'm sure N3V would be happy to offload that cost to you.
Say Frank, since we're playing the "you haven't done anything so shut up" game, can you show us please where are these lovely routes of yours that you spent two years making?
Great idea. Please continue to post things like this instead of off-topic walls of texts about stuff like your wiki, your wiki-writing skills, N3V's wiki or your debarment from N3V's wiki.
No sir, the point was not the duration of support offered, but the concept of what support entails. In this particular example, just like you wouldn't expect a manufacturer to continue supplying spare parts for unsupported models, you wouldn't expect a software company to continue supplying outdated content for unsupported versions.
And before anyone brings up the "but they work perfectly fine!" argument for the umpteenth time, no, this has nothing to do with how they still work otherwise we can argue, "but N3V, TB 1.3 assets still work, why are you not supporting Trainz SP3?"
Yea, you can still find parts for your Apple II, but I'll bet a dollar you didn't buy those parts from Apple themselves.
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BLACKWATCH
Mechanical Engineer
My car was made in 2002, but 12 years later, well after they finished making it, 9 years after the warranty expired, after 2 later versions have been released, I can still go to the manufacturers agent & buy geniuine replacement parts.
My car was made in 2002, but 12 years later, well after they finished making it, 9 years after the warranty expired, after 2 later versions have been released, I can still go to the manufacturers agent & buy geniuine replacement parts.
How many hundreds of thousands (or millions) of your particular 2002 model were made and sold? ...and how much do you pay for your genuine spare parts? My point is that the manufacturer of your 2002 model car is still probably making a tidy profit out of spare parts sales. Indeed, it probably has an entire spare parts division.
How much money is N3V making from the DLS downloads of assets it maintains for older versions of Trainz? That DLS support costs money (servers, hosting, backups, bandwidth, helpdesk, etc) and I somehow doubt that what you pay for an FCT will cover all of that.
NSWGR_46Class
Just call my Captain Rude
Not in Australia - Ford here now only carry spares and offer support via a dealer for 10 years now. Needed a heater element for my 2003 build van and was laughed at by the dealer - it was down to either get one from wrecker or get a custom build from a radiator manufacture. Ford would not fit it either.
My car was made in 2002, but 12 years later, well after they finished making it, 9 years after the warranty expired, after 2 later versions have been released, I can still go to the manufacturers agent & buy geniuine replacement parts.
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I don't know if anybody posted that... If you have Trainz Mac 2 and you download a DLS asset which was crafted before the 'icon.tga vs icon.texture'* filter was placed there you will end up wit a faulty asset in your collection. This is mad.
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if config contains such tag: icon.tga while there is a file in the folder called icon.texture.txt the DLS uploiad filter will not pass such asset due to double linking (or so called) to the icon.tga file itself.
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*
if config contains such tag: icon.tga while there is a file in the folder called icon.texture.txt the DLS uploiad filter will not pass such asset due to double linking (or so called) to the icon.tga file itself.
Sure the duration matters. We ARE comparing technology to cars, here...
As for the Apple parts, Apple made almost none of them. In many cases, I'm buying the exact same part from the exact same manufacturer Apple did 33 years ago.
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