Does Trainz have a future?

[airtime]

This has been raised a thousand times. It would increase bandwidth and slow the DLS to a crawl. If every asset is packed as one with every dependency then if you download say twenty similar freight cars all using the same bogie, enginespec, loading effects script, and ten products you are going to d/l all those dependencies twenty times instead of once.

The quick efficient system is the present one. You download twenty freight cars but you download all the associated baggage just once.

And please explain why non-TRS09/10 owners should be denied access to corrected DLS content which will run better in all versions of Trainz...

Andy

I agree with what you say Andy, however it can take me up to one hour to download one item of rolling stock including dependencies, I'm sure it could be longer for others, however if it was all in CDP format, it would take me 3 minutes, hence leaving time for other users to get there CDP items quickly.

Also, when I go to each download page, it gives me a list of dependencies for each item of rolling stock, now once I've downloaded those items, and then go to another page with another piece of rolling stock, there is another page full of the same dependencies, I thought having the same dependencies though out each page on the DLS would slow it down even further, hence why it takes one hour to download from the DLS, and only three minutes to get the complete item from LTSV Trainz or any other site similar to this...

It just doesn't make sense why you have to click on Download page on the main menu in the DLS, which gives you another box saying download page and information on who made it, click on this and it gives you then another box with the download attached, click on download and you then get the save box, which you were after in the first place, I just don't know why you have to open up to three boxes, just to get one item, and you have to do this with each item, surely this is also part of the DLS being slow...

This was one of the main reasons why I mentioned my idea above.

By the way, thank you Dermmy for your reply, and thank you for helping me in the past, it's good to have you on here...

Joe Airtime

 

[American_Connections]

Right on the button!

What support are you talking about ?? ... the only versions of the software that Auran are actively patching are TS2009 and TS2010 ... so it seems to that there's not a lot of money floating in Aurans direction...

Exacly my point! As they do not provide support, they have lost potenually alot. I bet over half the users have stayed with or went back to 2004 or 2006. Acually , was there any support for 2009? Some patches that brought thier own problems, but most posts about it don't sound very positive. 2010 sounds to me lke they are looking back at what worked before (finally), and reflects what was 2004 and 2006, with added improvments.

 

[sparky15]

I've been through the progression, 04,06,TC and now 09. I bought 09 simply for the smaller terrain brush and 5m grid. So far its exactly what I want in that department but at what cost? The performance hit is to much in compatibility mode and in native mode I loose vegetation. Sorry, but I just can't warm up to the new trees at all.

So basically I'm back to TC and in reality not much further ahead than with 04. Buying the new versions when they come out is pointless for many when the old ones suit what they need so well. A lot of great things coming out of the older versions and people creating for the game are still using them.

Ditching the DLS and starting over would be a bad idea. All the great stuff on there wasn't created by Auran, it was done by the community. Making everything 09/10 only and forcing a game upgrade would probably push the third party folks to a different site or at worse stop them from releasing content all together. That 200lb anchor called the DLS is an asset that keeps selling games for them, every new release includes content taken from there. Why hire a crew to build new content when the customers are feeding it to them.

The first thing I do when getting a new game is disable or delete 95% of the built in stuff. A lot of that content has been there since 04. The rest of what I install comes from third party people and most of that is on third party sites anyway, very little built in or DLS content. If they're not careful they run the risk of alienating creators and push them to third party sites. No new content coming in=no new content to release in future games=no new need to buy a new version I don't need because site XYZ.com has everything I need or want.

Dave......

 

[Vern]

TRS2004 scenarios can definitely change junctions under program control and I suspect there's probably a Rule to do it in a driver session, in which case the fault lies with the session design, not with the fundamentals of TS2010. However, one might argue that a built-in item should have been subjected to tighter quality control in that respect.

John

I'm sure there is somewhere John, but the problem is it's not documented nor are there any instructions as to how to use it. The process needs to be seamless and preferably GUI driven so users can "generate" a session or scenario by clicking the start point and destination, plus any intermediate calling points which the AI then takes care of finding the optimal route.

The irony is you can set this up for an AI movement but not a "player" train where if you want to go off the default path set up in Surveyor you have to work out in advance where you need to change the points etc. I was actually intent on putting together a couple of sessions for the ECML until this restriction hit me. If I want to switch to the slow line at some point, I just stop where I fancy and change the points. If I want to go off to Hull, then I need to work out where the junction is, stop in the middle of a four track main line, then figure out which points to throw.

Auran have had 8 or 9 years to figure this out, I'm not expecting something as complex as the AI and routing routine in Zusi (which is actually programmed by one guy in his spare time) but certainly akin to MSTS and RW. Unless you're working a shortline in North America or unsignalled branch line most "real world" railways are controlled by the signaller or despatcher, not the traincrew.

I would not consider myself an Auran "basher", I've bought every main version since CE (TRS2006 twice!) including TC3 and the Railwaves West Somerset pack. However apart from the terrain returning a bit quicker after saving in Surveyor, TS2010 does not offer a whole lot more content wise than TS2009. The increased draw distance was already available in TRS2006 via Trainz Tuner.

There's plenty of other niggles re TS2010 - there's still periodic sound drop outs, splined tunnels can still only be laid at certain angles, finer control over curve track radii etc. etc. (Add to which, installing TS2010 and the patch appeared to adveresly affect my laptop BIOS with false errors about a failed power supply). All old stuff I know but there was a real opportunity for Auran to push on and substantially improve the core rather than charging full price for what is a bit of extra content and some dodgy looking trees on top of what is essentially TS2009.

The question that probably needs to be asked (trying to be positive) is what Auran need to do in order to sell the next full version of the programme as certainly in the view of this customer the makeover/emperor's new clothes limit has been reached.

 

[nicky9499]

charging full price for what is a bit of extra content and some dodgy looking trees on top of what is essentially TS2009.

The question that probably needs to be asked (trying to be positive) is what Auran need to do in order to sell the next full version of the programme as certainly in the view of this customer the makeover/emperor's new clothes limit has been reached.

I quite agree with that statement.

AC seems to be fighting a losing battle regarding support for older versions. He has a very good point but it is kinda flawed.

"Support = customers. Customers = sales. Sales = money!"

So you're providing support for people who already have 05/06/TC. Where will the sales come from then? If I already have a copy of 06 I don't see how else I can throw money at Auran excluding the $25/year FCT which not all will purchase.

Compare this and a new copy of TS10 at $50 which people may buy if they stop support.

So now it really is a sad case of poor production values. As with every recent release, it's just the previous version with more 3rd-party content and a few novelties coupled with marketing which makes heavy use of others' high-quality content, now worse than ever.

Given that TS2010 is not all that appealing after all, I'd say AC has made a good point.

Cheerio,
Nicholas.

 

[john259]

Where will the sales come from then?

From scenario-like activities maybe, which might appeal to many of the Trainz users who aren't interested in creating material themselves.

John

 

[perry_weekley]

"Does Trainz have a Future?"

That is the question and Tiny Trainz is the answer. That was the new trainz announced in the newsletter and it looks different. Being aimed at a younger audience it might be a nice way to slowly bring the new generations into model railroading. Not to mention stop people giving me weird looks when I mention I like trains. It's so annoying knowing my age group doesn't get it.

Anyway Trainz 2010 was a great release. I updated straight from TC-2010. NEver had a problem in CMP when it imported everything from TC. I am even proud to admit a layout I made in 2004 then moved to TC then moved to 2010 still works and plays better than ever. My only gripe is the view distance. My layout contains a section where the trains loops in and around the mountain down to the bottom where it is an easy grade to the plains floor. This section is so large it disappears in the view distance before you reach the bottom. In Trainz Tuner I was able to fix it but now with Trainz Tuner not working on 2010 I can't fix my issue.

I bought UTC,2004,2006,TC1&2 skipped TC3 and 2009 and went for 2010 after I seen speedtree which has been an amazing help and makes my routes look so much better.

I hope the future of Trainz continues what it started with 2010 and literally build upon the last game, sorta like an expansion.