Does Trainz have a future?

[Scitimar]

lots of snippage here

i am glad to see them try and catch up with the current era in doing .

and here :hehe:


^^ Should read " patch up " ...

Catching up would be an engine that did'nt have stupid traingles in the sky , had shadows that did'nt involve a mesh , had lighting for the environment and models that was at least as accurate as current games ... and on and on .

Does Trainz have a future?

Yep .. a short one .

.

 

[martinvk]

I wish my crystal ball was a bit less cloudy so that I could see what the future of Trainz really is but since I can't, I can only say it appears to be doing just fine.

My TS2010 imported everything I wanted from all of my previous versions going back to UTC and renders them very well. In-game performance is smooth and solid. Some of the Speedtrees look rather dumb and their animation is a bit silly but you don't have to use them all. I still have and use some of the older trees without any problem. Adding layers to Surveyor has to be one of Auran's best moves. Once you've used it, it is very hard to go back to the layerless versions.

As for content, most if not all is made for the lowest common denominator so it will be a long time that before exclusive TS2009 / TS2010 objects are created, there is often just no need to. Why needlessly deprive earlier version users of new objects?

 

[ish6]

Do you guys read business week ... !?

After reading a few articles kind of feel bad for the company, but again, if Auran CEO simply come to these forums, and spend 1 minute with us, all of these issues that spans from the DLS to the current state of trainz would reply put everyone at ease.

All I'm going to say is that if this company, and trainz is still here by the end of the year, is because someone up there like Auran, as a company!!

Or, they can always sell it to Microsoft

Ish

 

[pommie]

Or, they can always sell it to Microsoft

Ish

/me slaps ish around with a soggy squid for even uttering that in jest

 

[mikeman]

I have over 147k items and of those I now have 1,400 that have an error of one sort or another. When I got 2010 I had over 5,000 errors and of all those items that I have worked to repair I believe I have less than 25 that I could not repair and had to delete. The Pev tools are a god send to repairing broken items and everyone should become familure with their use. These items that I have repaired include some items from the very earliest days of trains including, Silverliners,Greenliners, Sharks ect. It takes a lot of time and some exp but I it can be done. Yes they all work in Native mode. You cannot move foward with a product and change it with the times and have it work for every peice of old product. I am glad to see Auran decide that they had to move foward and push the product into the next phase of development. If the creators don't fix their items then if you still want to use them take the time to learn how to repair them. It works.

 

[ish6]

/me slaps ish around with a soggy squid for even uttering that in jest

Hi David,

Going to bed now, and I'm going with a laughter ... that's funny!!!

Ishie

 

[Scitimar]

Why needlessly deprive earlier version users of new objects?

Lifetime support for spending $10 on a game ????

roflmao

 

[pommie]

I think everyone will agree that the present database of content has to many errors and is in such a mess that something needs doing.

This is a 'my opinion' warning

The download database should be split NOW, leave the current database as is, up to 09 compatibility mode, and start a new one for 09 native mode and up.
I do not mean lock off the old one, far from it, it needs to continue as is (well when fixed anyway) but to clean up the mess, content error and category wise, a new start is needed with the new database having very strict error checking and Auran letting creators know the exact method of making and packaging content to enable this to happen.

Over time (years) the new database will grow and the old one used less and less, until eventually it can be closed with any content that has not been updated and uploaded to the new database, lost, most likely this 'lost' content would be outdated and not used anymore.

I said this could do with being done with the release of 06, now imho it NEEDS doing now.

Cheers David

 

[Thierry_St_Malo]

Well, what are "Pev tools" that can fix older objects, and for Christ's sake what is the new way of using Alpha layers?
Unable to find anything useful on the subject !
Thierry

 

[nicky9499]

The download database should be split NOW, leave the current database as is, up to 09 compatibility mode, and start a new one for 09 native mode and up.
I do not mean lock off the old one, far from it, it needs to continue as is (well when fixed anyway) but to clean up the mess, content error and category wise, a new start is needed with the new database having very strict error checking and Auran letting creators know the exact method of making and packaging content to enable this to happen.

Over time (years) the new database will grow and the old one used less and less, until eventually it can be closed with any content that has not been updated and uploaded to the new database, lost, most likely this 'lost' content would be outdated and not used anymore.

I said this could do with being done with the release of 06, now imho it NEEDS doing now.

Take a look around you. DLS is still stuck in '04 era, albeit with a '10 sticker slapped on. I'll be wondering if i had a drop too much the day this mess of a DLS is cleared up. Meantime, built-in and 3rd party sites work just fine.

I've also taken up flight simulation on VATSIM. Even if Trainz doesn't have a future, boredom will not be an issue.
Thank you Auran for creating Trainz. I've enjoyed it very much, but after 3 years it's about time the novelty wore off.

Cheerio,
Nicholas.

 

[jeffjgale]

OK, so this is where I make a lot of non friends, I have been reading the posts here and no one is sticking up for poor old 2004, I have 06 and 09 but still like and use 04, OK it has faults and is old to most of you.
I hear many going bloto over Trainz, hay it only cost $50 and my FCT did not set me back more than a packet of smokes for 1 year, so far I must have had $1gazzilion in fun, so get over it and wait to see how things pan out now that the Christmas hols are over and all at Auran are back and working to fix the bugs that are stopping the upload of new content so all you Trainz users can enjoy 2010.
Regards Jeff.

 

[paulzmay]

Well, what are "Pev tools" that can fix older objects, and for Christ's sake what is the new way of using Alpha layers?
Unable to find anything useful on the subject !
Thierry

PEV's tools are to be found here: http://members.optusnet.com.au/~villaump/pevsoft.htm

Alpha channels should be pure black and white for TS2009. TS2010 seems to have a way to convert 256 colour alpha channels into very finely dithered patterns (fine dots) instead of being translucent. The effect is similar to older versions for most items, but not quite the same. It makes old style trees usable, and appears to eliminate the old alpha blending/sorting bug where the furthest trees would become visible in front of the front ones.

Personally I'd like to see a much re-vamped DLS, with a TS2009/10 compatibility flag as it's first new feature. Correcting the remaining items should be mostly possible either with or without the original creators. Priority should be given to those items with most downloads with a bias towards the more recent items. As there are a lot of repeated errors, much of this could be done as an automated find and replace. It needs some effort from Auran, but it would turn the DLS back into the jewel in Trainz's crown, instead of the embarrassing relative.

As for the paucity of TS2009/10 specific content, I think there are a number of reasons for this:
-Many items don't really need all of the TS09/10 bells and whistles, so get labelled with a lower build number. Personally, I've been using higher poly meshes and bigger textures, but as I haven't played with LOD or bump mapping, my items are build 1.3 or 2.
-Lots of people (myself included) like TS09/10 for the greater efficiency of its game engine, and want to use this to increase draw distance, frame rates and number of objects. The extra detail in individual assets is of lesser importance (to me at least).
-Most creators are still using GMax - which doesn't do bump-mapping without some substantial hacking. People are moving over to Blender, but it will take time.
-It takes longer to do higher detail items. This alone will reduce the numbers. Even a high poly mesh will take much longer than a simple one - add bump mapping etc, and it's a lot to take on.

So no, Trainz is anything but dead - but Auran do need to get their act in gear if they are to rely on the community for content...

Paul

 

[airtime]

Looking at it from my point of view...

Trainz 2004 was great for it's time, everything worked for it, except for the sound, clunk, click, hiss, bang...

Trainz 2006 overtook Trainz 2004 and was even better, they introduced the tunnel portal which I still think is brilliant, everything on the DLS worked great and would have been the best by far, only for the dredded clunk, click, hiss, bang noises, which were more noticible and never fixed...

Trainz 2009 was just a test base for beta testers and forum trainzers to test out new features, for example Compatibility/Native Mode, error checking in CMP, Quickdrive and they finally fixed the sound...

Trainz 2010 was basically Trainz 2009 with most errors fixed, along with a whole load of new content, routes and the introduction of Speedtree, which I think is the best decision Auran ever made.

I believe Trainz 2010 is the start of great things to come, and I believe when they have got most of the content on the DLS to work without errors in Trainz 2010, Trainz itself will only get bigger and better in time, trainz is still young compared to most games, and I believe trainz has a great and bright future...

At the moment, Trainz has only two competitors, BVE is a free train simulation, but without the route building facility, and Railworks which is an expensive Railsim with a complicated route building program, if something new came on the market, very similar to trainz with easy to use route building, and a program that can run on anything, and look amazing at the same time, then Auran may be in trouble, but at this present moment in time, Auran have the best simulation on the market and the cheapest...

Joe Airtime

 

[Dinorius_Redundicus]

Just a side question I guess but one could ask, if these tools are so useful and necessary for Trainz (as I am sure they are) why aren't they made by Auran and supplied as part of Trainz?

Why is it always left to 3rd party people to develop utilities that make Trainz into a really workable hobby?

 

[martinvk]

...

Why is it always left to 3rd party people ...

because they can?

There is only one Auran, OK perhaps several coders, but there are many more 3rd party coders so even with the Auran crew's inside knowledge edge, there will be many more 3rd party attempts and successes at adding functionality to Trainz. I would say it speaks highly of the popularity of Trainz that so many attempt to add to it.

 

[Dinorius_Redundicus]

..that's one way of looking at it I guess.

Anyway, back to the main topic...

 

[norfolksouthern37]

Well, what are "Pev tools" that can fix older objects, and for Christ's sake what is the new way of using Alpha layers?
Unable to find anything useful on the subject !
Thierry

because you can't read, or bother to read?

it goes like this... again.

if you make a tree or scenery item DONT use an 8 bit 256 color alpha channel, it is better to use a black and white only alpha for mask objects.

here it is another way

if you want to do a texture mask on an object, use a mask alpha of 2 colors, not a blended 256 color alpha, because this is NOT a mask.



you can still use blended alphas on some things like traincars and alphanumbers, and other such things, but dont ever use it to make a tree, or a fence, or even a railroad track.

 

[TheStoon]

PEV's tools are to be found here: http://members.optusnet.com.au/~villaump/pevsoft.htm

Alpha channels should be pure black and white for TS2009. TS2010 seems to have a way to convert 256 colour alpha channels into very finely dithered patterns (fine dots) instead of being translucent. The effect is similar to older versions for most items, but not quite the same. It makes old style trees usable, and appears to eliminate the old alpha blending/sorting bug where the furthest trees would become visible in front of the front ones.


Paul

It uses Alpha-To-Coverage.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alpha_to_coverage

This requires anti-aliasing - the higher the AA quality the better the effect.

 

[happyj]

At my age (81) most of this technical discussion is all Greek. I just want a simulator thar allows me to play around modifying routes to suit my whims, and to run trains, trucks and even ships.

Although i have only had TS 2010 for a week I find performance much better than previous editions of Trainz. For each edition so far I have loaded "Tidewater Point Rail" as a sort of benchmark, so I was pleased to see it included as a built in. Upon running it I found framerates to be higher than any previos edition, no stuttering, and the detail on buildings etc, exceptional.

In addition I have downloaded many items from the DLS, mostly "buildings and structures " and so far all work in native mode.

So far TS 2010 is a go for me.

Cheers>

 

[tmunn]

Trainz is a game

I dont take trainz to serious. I have all versions and think trainz 2010 is the best. I really enjoyed railroad tycoon from the first to railroad tycoon 2.
Railroad tycoon 3 is not user friendly and I dont play it. The problem
is with windows 7 64bit I cant play rr tycoon 2. I am 75 and just enjoy what is here now. So dont take things to serious.