Does Trainz Have a Future?

[Zwabberaar]

True, but I suspect that buyers of Trainz who don't visit the forums will not appreciated the true depth of it, given the additional information that is really necessary to run it properly and get full value, many may give up in frustration and won't be repeat buyers, and won't be around to support future development, which is/would be a great pity?

I think the the strength of Trainz is that the box version comes with enough content to entertain yourself for a VERY long time without the need of additional custom content.

Many people simply don't have the time to invest in hunting custom content with all its potential problems to get it to work. The built-in content is for lots of people more then enough to satisfy their trainzing needs.

That is why I think that the Classics approach is the wrong one. The buyer gets only one or two routes for almost the same amount of money you had to pay for TRS06 or TRS04. With the prices for these two down it is, in my opinion, a better solution to buy that then TC. I would therefore like to see sales numbers that compare TRS06 and TC.

The few active members on this site do not represent the majority of the people that buy this simulator and are happy with what they get in the box. A previous poster remarked that he had bought all Total War games but never participates on any related forum. For me it is the same. I have also bought and played all instalments ( back to Shogun ) but never felt the need to join the on-line community or start working with game modifications. We have to realize that, most likely, the largest group of people that buy and use Trainz is the group that play with it just from the box .

 

[misterchugg]

hi all
i only bought TC 1+2 because of what they wrote on their website.
well, i have a game that will not let me play saved game session unless i wish to put up with all my trains running at 14kph.

i am still waiting on an answer to my emails to the helpdesk and also in the TC section

i do not feel like restarting the session every time i want to play.
thats way too boring.

for me buying this game was a waste of my money

i think i shall go back to my wargames

cheers
ron

 

[steamboateng]

After muddling through 10 pages of posts regarding Aurans future, I've decided to add my own muddling view. About Trainz future I'm left confused and unsure.
Confused because Trainzers have differing views, and therefore opinions of what the sim is about. Auran claims 600,000 Trainz users and 250,000 registerd users worldwide. (I reference a 2007 U-Tube promo from it's own developement offices in Australia.) Certainly, not all users are into route building or content creation. I'm sure the great majority are the casual gamers, not the dedicated virtual hobbists who are the core of the DLS and Forums. Yet this relatively small core group is the heart of TRS2004 and TRS2006 (and more). TRS04 and 06 are open ended sims, inviting the users input and creativity. But Trainz has gone also in the other direction, to become more user freindly to the casual gamer. That's where the money is.
Unsure because I don't know which way Trainz will go. In its present downsized form, surely we can't expect a new, totally overhauled 'Engineer's Editon" as envioned several years ago. (A revamped and modernized Trainz, employing the latest technical improvements in coding, graphics, etc. Not backwards compatible but implying a newer DLS version with creations from later, more user freindly graphics programs. Gmax is being touted as a dead horse, with no developer support, and few can spare the expense of 3DX.) What's the latest vesion of Trainz going to look like? I may be wrong, but I'm under the impression it's a TRS2006 with many of its issues resolved (?).
I feel that Auran is in a quandry, itself, over Trainz. Not having the staff or funding to create a new Trainz that will compete with the newer railroad sims coming to market, will it mark time cloning its past (and somewhat outdated) successes.
A google of Auran popped up a few surprising comments and insights. Of paticular interest was this blog re www.doolwind.com/blog/?p=88. Perhaps TRS06 and CMP complaints are justified.
I still love ya, Auran, but I'm concerned that if you drop the ball and don't cater to the needs of the dedicated vitual railroading community, your gonna lose it, perhaps to your competitors.

Regards from a loyal fan :wave:

 

[paulhobbs]

A google of Auran popped up a few surprising comments and insights. Of paticular interest was this blog re www.doolwind.com/blog/?p=88. Perhaps TRS06 and CMP complaints are justified.

I don't see what the blog has to do with Trainz. He makes it clear that his beef is with Auran Developments which was set up for Fury. The point about GMax is also a red herring, I reckon that content creation will move over to Blender eventually for the heavy duty stuff, possibly using GMax for the final export. After all, Blender can export 3DS and GMax can import it - and Trainz couldn't care less about which program was used to create the mesh.

Paul

 

[jeffmorris]

I lost interest in KRS after the MK1 patch that caused weird problems related to "drawing" the tracks with the mouse in World Editor. I don't want the Auran company to go out of business but if they can't develop new versions of Trainz, I will have to stop using my computers and start making things out of wood. Making things out of wood should keep me busy but my workshop needs to be cleaned out. I'm in the process of building a computer-controlled machine that cuts out and routes wood. I already spent about $360 building the machine so far and I will have to spend about $500 for special motors, controller that connects to a computer, and software.

 

[johnwhelan]

After muddling through 10 pages of posts regarding Aurans future, I've decided to add my own muddling view. About Trainz future I'm left confused and unsure.
Confused because Trainzers have differing views, and therefore opinions of what the sim is about. Auran claims 600,000 Trainz users and 250,000 registerd users worldwide. (I reference a 2007 U-Tube promo from it's own developement offices in Australia.) Certainly, not all users are into route building or content creation. I'm sure the great majority are the casual gamers, not the dedicated virtual hobbists who are the core of the DLS and Forums. Yet this relatively small core group is the heart of TRS2004 and TRS2006 (and more). TRS04 and 06 are open ended sims, inviting the users input and creativity. But Trainz has gone also in the other direction, to become more user freindly to the casual gamer. That's where the money is.
Unsure because I don't know which way Trainz will go. In its present downsized form, surely we can't expect a new, totally overhauled 'Engineer's Editon" as envioned several years ago. (A revamped and modernized Trainz, employing the latest technical improvements in coding, graphics, etc. Not backwards compatible but implying a newer DLS version with creations from later, more user freindly graphics programs. Gmax is being touted as a dead horse, with no developer support, and few can spare the expense of 3DX.) What's the latest vesion of Trainz going to look like? I may be wrong, but I'm under the impression it's a TRS2006 with many of its issues resolved (?).
I feel that Auran is in a quandry, itself, over Trainz. Not having the staff or funding to create a new Trainz that will compete with the newer railroad sims coming to market, will it mark time cloning its past (and somewhat outdated) successes.
A google of Auran popped up a few surprising comments and insights. Of paticular interest was this blog re www.doolwind.com/blog/?p=88. Perhaps TRS06 and CMP complaints are justified.
I still love ya, Auran, but I'm concerned that if you drop the ball and don't cater to the needs of the dedicated vitual railroading community, your gonna lose it, perhaps to your competitors.

Regards from a loyal fan :wave:

The majority of users do not have to use GMAX to create. A surprisingly few meshes form the basis of many reskins and as long as some creators can create in 3DS, GMAX or do a fudge from blender into GMAX thence to Trainz I don't think it matters. Trainz has content, it has a lot of people who know about trains and provide the research to get the models correct.

If I think about word processors we use to chase around after the latest version. These days to a large extent I don't care which it is they do the job. I'm more interested in what has been written, and I think we are getting to the same point in Train simulators. If you look at the DLS older items without visible loads, operating couplings and the other recent fancy bits and pieces are still very popular downloads. In other words people are not so hung up on having the latest and greatest quite so much any more.

They have imagination and I think that will work fine for the next few years. After that I don't know, but it takes about three years to write a new sim, say roughly two to three years to build content up. MSTS version one still has a very strong following. Currently the group of virtual hobbists who create are still here. Many are at an age when they prefer to stay with something that works rather than learn something new. The forum is an extremely smooth running one with experienced moderators that are helpful and I think this still gives Trainz an edge.

Yes software that made full use of modern computers would be nice but realistically it isn't going to happen with any sim for a while its just too complex and being number one but going bankrupt doesn't help anyone.

The new MSTS is supposed to be built on the Flight Simulator engine OK but its unproven and that's still a 32 bit engine.

Cheerio John

 

[WileeCoyote]

Shoot me now

Out of all honesty, I think because people are still releasing loads of excellent content for Trainz, and the mere fact that we are discussing its future goes to show that yes. It does indeed have a future.

WileeCoyote

 

[skiingiggy]

I think it does, It's just a matter of weather or not it lasts in Auran. It will definately have a future in all of the private groups and forums that are still going strong though, and in some cases, still growing rapidly.

 

[atsfrr3000]

Another thread about Trainz's future was started, and promptly locked with a link to this thread, but not before I made this reply concerning the author's views on graphics. I think it's still relevant here.

All valid points in my opinion, but unfortunately, they're points that have hashed to death ad nausem here, and no progress has been made in that area.

An interesting thing about graphics I've noticed - it seems to me that a lot of "sim" users, and train sim users specifically, seem to think that good graphics and good gameplay are mutually exclusive - a sim simply cannot have both. I remember when the first screenshots of KRS surfaced, showing off some pretty good (then) graphics compared to Trainz, and it was instantly panned here, with many users asserting that "the developers are just playing with fancy graphics, it has no gameplay whatsoever," even though not a single one of them knew what was going on inside Kuju at the time, and it's almost impossible to comment on gameplay from an early promotional screenshot.

So unfortunately, until this idea that one simply cannot have both is proven to be a load of bunk, you're going to find that a lot of users here are going to criticize the idea of updated graphics and prefer that Auran continue to use the same old rustic JET 2.0 it's been using for nearly 5 years now. Not a bad idea, since the Trainz team - at last count - totalled 4 people, but sometimes people here generally tend to go a bit overboard in defending the use of stone age graphics.

 

[BLueNeon]

Another thread about Trainz's future was started, and promptly locked with a link to this thread, but not before I made this reply concerning the author's views on graphics. I think it's still relevant here.
Originally Posted by atsfrr3000
All valid points in my opinion, but unfortunately, they're points that have hashed to death ad nausem here, and no progress has been made in that area.

An interesting thing about graphics I've noticed - it seems to me that a lot of "sim" users, and train sim users specifically, seem to think that good graphics and good gameplay are mutually exclusive - a sim simply cannot have both. I remember when the first screenshots of KRS surfaced, showing off some pretty good (then) graphics compared to Trainz, and it was instantly panned here, with many users asserting that "the developers are just playing with fancy graphics, it has no gameplay whatsoever," even though not a single one of them knew what was going on inside Kuju at the time, and it's almost impossible to comment on gameplay from an early promotional screenshot.

So unfortunately, until this idea that one simply cannot have both is proven to be a load of bunk, you're going to find that a lot of users here are going to criticize the idea of updated graphics and prefer that Auran continue to use the same old rustic JET 2.0 it's been using for nearly 5 years now. Not a bad idea, since the Trainz team - at last count - totalled 4 people, but sometimes people here generally tend to go a bit overboard in defending the use of stone age graphics.

Perhaps the debunking will come with another new sim ... can't post the name of that product though.

BN

 

[Heaton]

The majority of users do not have to use GMAX to create. A surprisingly few meshes form the basis of many reskins and as long as some creators can create in 3DS, GMAX or do a fudge from blender into GMAX thence to Trainz I don't think it matters.

Cheerio John

In fact there are far easier apps than Blender, with its quirky interface, that can be used to create meshes, and which are also free. Gmax need only be an import/export tool.

There's Wings 3D, also Metasequoia LE. For format conversion to 3DS and texture-skinning there's Lithunwrap (you need to Google around a bit for the latter).

 

[amigacooke]

Here is a list of requests for patch 2 of KRS from UKTrainSim message boards. It seems it is not only the Jet engine that suffers from snow and rain in tunnels.

Not in any order of importance.
1. Fully functioning Level Crossings
2. Signalling with AI trains working correctly
3. No snow or rain while in tunnels
4. Exhaust on the Deltics
5. Steam from Whistle and open Cylinder Cocks
6. Improved Texturing (Paint Tools) control to enable more accurate placing of textures.
7. Timetabling ability
8. Some manual control over pathing

Trainz seems to have most of these bases covered. I agree a new graphics engine would be good, but I suggest that economic realities (at least at present) make that unlikely.

 

[Barry]

In fact there are far easier apps than Blender, with its quirky interface, that can be used to create meshes, and which are also free. Gmax need only be an import/export tool.

There's Wings 3D, also Metasequoia LE. For format conversion to 3DS and texture-skinning there's Lithunwrap (you need to Google around a bit for the latter).

---------------------------
Luckily there are other viewpoints in this world and to balance the viewpoints.

Blender is very easy to use, in my opinion, and have used it now for about 5 years. Also free, open source, constantly updated, and about 10 meg file size I think. You just need to learn which keys to click by working through any of the numerous worldwide tutorials available.

http://www.blender.org/


E for extrude. R for rotate. B box to draw a box around. S scale. G to grab.move. Seems logical to me.

Open and close any number of windows you want and change to and from them as you wish. I only use the opening 2 anyway, top for mesh and bottom for texture, etc. and change them to whatever I want and back.


Will export to numerous file types and export as 3ds to add attachments points, etc and drag mesh into gmax window if you wish, with or without texture. See other threads.



B

 

[paulhobbs]

I'm going to concur with Barry here - Blender's interface scares the hell out of people that are used to seeing an icon for every possible operation but it is very logical and the extensive use of keyboard shortcuts means that you can work very quickly once you know your way around.

Two big plus points - it's free and extremely powerful. The mapping tools are better than Max9 for example and it can do texture baking all in the same program.

BTW in KRS it used to rain in the cabs, not only in the tunnels (of course maybe that's been fixed now).

Paul

 

[john259]

If anyone's interested, there's a Wikibook on Blender
http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Blender_3D:_Noob_to_Pro
I'm not qualified to comment on whether it's any good or not but IMHO just about anything is likely to beat that program's own documentation.

John

 

[Heaton]

Hey I wasn't knocking Blender!

I first tried it back in the day before it went GNU, and have tried it on and off at various times and in various builds since. It's an amazingly comprehensive 3D app, and it being free is great. Personally, though, I just couldn't get along with that interface. IIRC the app uses OpenGL for everything including the user interface, not just rendering, and I experienced (back then) notable lag when running from Windows (launching from DOS got rid of that though).

I found other, simpler apps for modeling and texturing, while for raytrace rendering I've an early version of Cinema 4D that does the job.

So I guess it's what you get familiar with using. Blender is probably the best all-in-one package and worth learning if you want the full works, with photorealistic rendering, radiosity, animation capabilities etc., but if you're just doing mesh-modeling and texturing with static objects, it isn't really necessary.

Horses for courses.