Destroyer

[angelah]

Hi ish6,
Thanks for the tips, but I don't use 3Dmax, just Gmax, so that may not be available to me. I would like to learn how to Weld surfaces though, haven't a clue at the moment, that might help remove polys in this instance.
I really enjoyed making this ship so may do more, like the RFAs mentioned early in this thread and if Itareus can find some details for his narrowboats then I will create those for him as well. I have thought about how I made the hull for Solebay and that can be improved which in turn will help the poly count a lot.
But it isn't done yet, there is still more ways to remove Faces which should help.

Blessings,

Angela

 

[ish6]

Hi ish6,
Thanks for the tips, but I don't use 3Dmax, just Gmax, so that may not be available to me. I would like to learn how to Weld surfaces though, haven't a clue at the moment, that might help remove polys in this instance.
I really enjoyed making this ship so may do more, like the RFAs mentioned early in this thread and if Itareus can find some details for his narrowboats then I will create those for him as well. I have thought about how I made the hull for Solebay and that can be improved which in turn will help the poly count a lot.
But it isn't done yet, there is still more ways to remove Faces which should help.

Blessings,

Angela

Good Morning Angela (since it's 443am here)

The features of 3dmax and Gmax are very similiar here and there from what I have seen, so any tutorials for 3dmax should work with gmax since both programs do the same -- So I refer back to "you tube" tutorialS when I get stuck, and found this for you -- it is a tutorual on how to "Attaching, Snapping Verts, Welding Verts" -- Not sure how useful you may find it but I do encourage you to take a glance,etc ... you might find what you are looking for and learn a bit more, etc .... it's basic and straight to the point!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hal8iiWH5zY

Take Care
Ish

 

[ray_whiley]

Angela - just seen this thread after a few days 'off watch'. A superb model and I think you should send it to the DS, perhaps with a note in the description about the number of polys - it's too good not to go there, and it would be up to individual users whether they download it. But for anyone wanting a naval dockyard scene - or a port with a visiting warship - it would be ideal No doubt that the high number of polys could be balanced in an individual scene by carefully choosing what other assets to use.

Ray

 

[angelah]

Thanks to both Ish6 and Ray for your wonderfully helpful comments.
I have spent all morning going through the model removing Faces in hidden areas that would not effect the final look. I thought I had done well, some of the Faces removed were from the hull sections so quite large. Even smaller parts were converted into meshes and had unwanted Faces deleted. In the end and after hours of work having to redo an awful lot of texture editing I managed to remove just 742 polys - was the effort really worth it I have to ask on this amount of polys?
Unfortunately when I looked at it in Trainz I found that half the model had become invisible so it was completely ruined.
Back to Gmax to check but I had not made any mistakes on Face removal, all upper faces were still intack. So I copied the good parts and transferred those over after deleting the 'missing ones' which weren't missing at all, just not showing, and fully expected to see all restored. WRONG! To my horror it was exactl;y the same.
Fortunately, and as is my habit, I made a copy of the 'good' ship and saved out as a slightly different name before doing any editing so I have been able to put things back to being all 'shipshape and Bristol fashion' ... and my Battle Class destroyer once again graces my naval dockyard, 3 of them in fact.
I suppose I could change pennant numbers so there is more choice? But I cannot seem to find any guff on those anywhere. I may have a book on destroyers of that era somewhere but goodness knows where after the very hurried move to get away from a very violent neighbourhood in west London and come to peaceful and quite rural Wales where I am safe and have found a lot of new and supportive friends.

Yes, I shall do more ships, I thoroughly enjoyed making this one and I have been gleaning what info I can from Google. Have also learned a lot from this exercise so I should improve.

Ish6:- I have the Gmax Bible and looked up both Weld and Fuse. Weld was the better option as it removes unwanted polys but I could not work out how to join two different Boxes together. It needs to Vertices highlighted for a Weld but of course I can only do that with one Box. How the hell do you weld the other one? I don't think it's possible as this is meant to Weld vertices together in the same object, not 2 different ones.
Oh well, we live and learn....

Blessings,

Angela

 

[clam1952]

When that happens probably need a ResetXForm Angela, select each affected part and click ResetXForm - under the hammer icon, then rest selected. Save your original as a backup first though.

Edit:
Before welding you need to attatch, select one box right click, Convert to Editable Mesh, then Attach, click on the parts you want to attach, undo does work if you miss aim!

 

[angelah]

When that happens probably need a ResetXForm Angela, select each affected part and click ResetXForm - under the hammer icon, then rest selected. Save your original as a backup first though.

Hi clam1952,
As I always do, fortunately in this case. I have the messed up one still, again saved as a file name variation so can try.

I also have found that book and have a list of 9 different Battles (there were more I think) so now all I need is for somebody to explain how to do this name changing thing, in this case a number change. Doesn't it require a list or something? This is all new to me so please be patient - it would save putting a selection of the same thing onto the DS.

Blessings,

Angela

 

[stationmistress]

Post removed

 

[rickf77]

That looks great, Angela!

I've been banging away at a 1950's route that includes a part of HMCS Stadacona (Dartmouth side of the harbour). I've been looking for a naval ship or two that would have been around back then. We did not have any Battle Class destroyers, but you fellas and the Aussies would have been welcome visitors.

That sub could easily pass as an O Class. We received four of them from the RN, and they were often tied up at Dartmouth. I'm sure they were here in the mid 50's. I was 3 or 4 years old when we moved to Portsmouth. That's where Canadians went for sub training. I'm guessing the subs arrived here between 1955 and 1957. Did you make the sub?

There may be hope yet for my empty jetties!

Cheers.....Rick

 

[ish6]

Thanks to both Ish6 and Ray for your wonderfully helpful comments.

Ish6:- I have the Gmax Bible and looked up both Weld and Fuse. Weld was the better option as it removes unwanted polys but I could not work out how to join two different Boxes together. It needs to Vertices highlighted for a Weld but of course I can only do that with one Box. How the hell do you weld the other one? I don't think it's possible as this is meant to Weld vertices together in the same object, not 2 different ones.
Oh well, we live and learn....

Blessings,

Angela

Hello Angela,

Try what Clam suggested, and that should work out for you --- One thing I have learned all these years, Angela isthat an item can be made in a million ways. etc -- if it is not working your way then reversed what you are tying to do, and try other methods -- I hope you understand what I mean, etc ... in other words, think out of the box ... for example, I can take a box and curve it using a dozen ways, etc but in the end the box will still be curved!!

Good Luck, and again awesome model!!!

Ish

 

[angelah]

That looks great, Angela!

I've been banging away at a 1950's route that includes a part of HMCS Stadacona (Dartmouth side of the harbour). I've been looking for a naval ship or two that would have been around back then. We did not have any Battle Class destroyers, but you fellas and the Aussies would have been welcome visitors.

That sub could easily pass as an O Class. We received four of them from the RN, and they were often tied up at Dartmouth. I'm sure they were here in the mid 50's. I was 3 or 4 years old when we moved to Portsmouth. That's where Canadians went for sub training. I'm guessing the subs arrived here between 1955 and 1957. Did you make the sub?

There may be hope yet for my empty jetties!

Cheers.....Rick

Hello Rick,
The Canadians certainly did have the Battle Class, I found the book on destroyers and it lists them. What I am looking at right now is remaking the hull as one piece which should drop the polys a lot and also using an Attachment Pointer so the Pennant Number can be changed, a list would be included in the description as I haven't a clue how to make a number change on a model as they do on rolling stock.

I did not make the sub, sorry about that, it is HMS Onyx is you want to go get it, so an 'O' Class by the look of it. It is on the DS.

Now I have the destroyer book oddly called 'Destroyers'...(!) I can perhaps look at others having learned a lot of lessons on this one. Incidentally and before anybody mentions it, HMS Solebay is in Mediterranean Grey which is a fair bit lighter than our usual battleship grey.. The 2 RC models I made, about were also in this grey.

Angela

 

[angelah]

Hi clam,
I am not following your description of Weld I am afraid. I looked it up in my Gmax Bible and it states that the Vertices need to be selected that are going to be Welded. As I can only highlight one part how do I highlight the other seperate Box?
You say click Attach then right click one part. Do you mean the whole Box and not Vertices? I tried right-clicking but can only get the one Box the react. Maybe a more specific explanation might help my dull brain grasp the problem...

Cheers,

Angela

 

[masontaylor]

I've just started welding fairly recently, Angela, so perhaps I can help.

Let's say for argument's sake that you make three boxes, Box A, Box B and Box C, and wish to weld some of A to B

Select Box A in Edit Mode, and click the "Attach" box (Edit Geometry, far left) then the "Attach List", next to it: this will offer a selection of objects available to attach - select Box B, and click 'Attach' at the bottom. Now when you click the edit vertex box, all the vertices in both objects come up as part of a single object. Box C is still out of the group, though.

Align the two vertices on A and B you wish to weld, select both so they're red, then select "Target", then "Weld". They now become one. Weld as many as you need.

When you have your 3D snap button on (underneath the word "Grid" on the bottom pane, with a little magnet and a '3'), they sometimes weld themselves before you even offer the command: even sometimes without the snap on, once you've done the first weld: in this case, you may get the dreaded "No vertices within threshold" box, in this case because, since they've already formed a union, there's no other vertex to weld with....

Try it just with three boxes to get the idea of selection and attachment first.

Hope this helps,

m

 

[JWEwan]

Angela,

You`ve done a really good job on this "Battle". I remember them very well. I served on Jutland in the early sixties and between two squadrons in Malta we had about eight or nine of them. They were lovely ships and your rendition of Solebay is brilliant. By the early sixties these ships were nearly twenty years old and I reckon that by the late sixties early seventies they had all gone. Bravo Zulu Angela.

john

 

[clam1952]

Probably the last one was Matapan, dragged out of mothballs refitted and was being used at Portland for Under Water Weapons Establishment for Sonar testing trials while I was there in 74 / 75 ish, considerably changed though with a helicopter pad on the back, lots of additional superstructure no weapons, completely different profile.

 

[angelah]

This morning I spent ages making a new hull, a complete one this time and under-fitted it to the superstructure. When I checked the poly count it was 33,489 so slightly HIGHER than the highest previous one...!!! How the hell does that happen, I full expected it to be less. So it looks as if most of the polys are in the superstructure rather than anywhere else.

Masontyler :-
Thanks for going to the trouble of explaining the Weld process, I shall cherish the text. As you will see from the above, making a single piece hull actually increased the poly count so I will stick with the 4 pack method. Firstly it is more exact as both side will be copies of each other while a single hull is not. Had the polys reduced I would have tried Welding the other parts. I think that taking out all Faces that are not exposed on the 4 hull parts was better than making just one somehow, although for the life of me I don't know how.

JWewan :-
They are gorgeous ships with beautiful lines aren't they, not like the Lego looking ships nowadays (as somebody called them recently). These older ships had more character somehow and gracefull curves, their overall design seemed to me to be more balance as well.
My next ship will be the Tribal Class HMS Nubian. The hull is almost identical, a wee bit longer so a stretch job is needed.
Then maybe an 'C' or 'M' Class - or maybe both.... ha ha. The main differences will be deckhouse arrangements including the bridge and armament. Some had tripod masts as well so that would cut polys down no end.
A friend has been sending me pictures of RFA Argus so that is also on my hit list. This ship has quite a history, look it up on Google. I would like to do an RFA, they are important ships, just as important as warships really as without them the navy would grind to a halt. I recall vaguely an RFA moored in front of the Royal Yatch on HMS Excellent when I was there, can't remember the name of it now though but it is stuck inside my grey matter somehwere and may pop out at any moment.

Clam :-
See above, my experiments worked but not in the way I expected...!

Thanks to all who post here, it makes my day.

Blessings,

Angela

 

[JWEwan]

Angela,

What a fabulous choice for your next ship. The Nubian was one of the Tribal class of general purpose frigates. I served on one of the Nubian`s sisters, the Gurkha, from `75 to `77 during the "Cod War". They are gorgeous little ships and very comfy to live on.

you`re doing a great job.
#

john

 

[misterchugg]

beautiful work angela
let me know when they are done.
i would love to have one sitting in my harbour

cheers
ron

 

[SuperFudd]

I believe the Royal Navy aquired several of these circa 1940-41. This is the USS Peary DD-226. I think I found this on the DLS.

 

[ray_whiley]

Hello Angela

I would suggest that over a thousand views is a measure of the amount of interest in this fantastic project!

Ray

 

[angelah]

Ah, the Americah 4-stackers, yes, we Brits sold our souls for those to help get convoys across the Atlantic. They were old and had to be updated but were still destroyers which was the important thing. I think we gave 100 year leases on some of our warmer island possessions for the 50 ships.

I knew they were on the DS, I have used them before, snag is they have the American style Pennant Numbers on them so that gives them away a bit. They are in the darker grey as well more suited to the Atlantic.

Have got Nubian up and running, well part of it anyway. Spent most of the time working on the main armament, a bit awkward but I got there in the end. When I put them on they were too small so a rapid Scale did the trick, never used that before... Got the 2 funnels on and part of the bridge and a few other deckhouses. The hull is almost done, just got to put the rudder and screws on. Did these have a single rudder? No idea of polys yet but I am assuming they'll be high.


This one has a tripod mast so it looks a bit different to Solebay. I did work on Solebay's latterice mast today as it was a bit untiddy so she is almost ready to go to sea, well the DS anyway. Yep, I am sending her up as so many folk want it, large polys or not, as long as the user is aware of that and goes steady with the amount of ships. Trainz works with 3 in a dockyard, I have it on my PC.

Ray :-
It is pleasing to see so many people viewing and the interest in posts coming back, make it all worthwhile.

Blessings,

Angela