Dear N3V: we do not need a new product every two minutes...

[ldowns]

Whats this got to do with the OP's moan about new versions? I just can't see the link? Why should a new version route work on a old version Trainz software? It's like moaning about paint 3d not working on Windows XP (which some of the luddites on here think is the bee's knee's!) :'(

Regards.
CaptEngland (living in 2017, not 2001!)

Except that this is a case of files that won't load into the same version, with only a service pack in between. As long as the product is simply called Trainz: A New Era users are going to assume it's the same software. That's about like having Word 2.01 files that won't load into Word 2.0. The convention is normally that with a major change like that you have a new version number for the software. (And even then there used to be the option to Save As in the earlier format.) But then, who these days even remembers version numbers?

--Lamont

 

[fsbrown]

I'm thinking that the lack of interchangeably with and support for older versions is one reason for all the teeth grinding. Many games are flawed to some degree when they first arrive. First we were impatient for the release of TANE, then Sp1, then Sp2 now Sp2hf1. When the customer pushes to get something out to them some times things slip through the cracksMy whine is that the update installs are not automatic. You should be able to start what ever version of Trainz and have then be offered the option of installing updates to the current version. If you want to update, the upload and install should take place without any further problems or long instructions necessary.
My biggest gripe is that MP hasn't worked reliably since Sp2.

 

[cressjl]

...My whine is that the update installs are not automatic. You should be able to start what ever version of Trainz and have then be offered the option of installing updates to the current version...

You want to investigate why this is the case in more detail. I can't remember T:ANE failing to inform me that an update is available, even with the numerous beta builds...

Likewise, so far the updates have been hands off, even though I have learned to be patient and let T:ANE finish rebuilding the database prior to attempting to apply the next successive patch.

 

[JCitron]

I'm thinking that the lack of interchangeably with and support for older versions is one reason for all the teeth grinding. Many games are flawed to some degree when they first arrive. First we were impatient for the release of TANE, then Sp1, then Sp2 now Sp2hf1. When the customer pushes to get something out to them some times things slip through the cracksMy whine is that the update installs are not automatic. You should be able to start what ever version of Trainz and have then be offered the option of installing updates to the current version. If you want to update, the upload and install should take place without any further problems or long instructions necessary.
My biggest gripe is that MP hasn't worked reliably since Sp2.

You want to investigate why this is the case in more detail. I can't remember T:ANE failing to inform me that an update is available, even with the numerous beta builds...

Likewise, so far the updates have been hands off, even though I have learned to be patient and let T:ANE finish rebuilding the database prior to attempting to apply the next successive patch.

I'd prefer not to have automatic updates due to the very reasons we've experienced with updates in the past. This would be the end to a lot of things that we have in Trainz as our versions crash unexpectedly due to something that was "fixed" in an update. Remember the fiasco associated with the early versions of T:ANE, and even previous issues with TS12, or go back further to TRS2004 and TRS2006, which required installing fresh not running then applying the SP1.

Think for a minute on this then consider how many times have we found that the updates don't work as expected, and end up not installing them after reading about the issues in the forums, or have had to reinstall.

In regards to the documentation things are getting better, and we have to remember that documentation is not the focus of software developers. It's just the way they are, being geeks and all that focus on making things work, not necessarily the details. This is not an uncommon issue which is found across the computer science and electronics industry worldwide.

As community members we have offered to take up the documentation part to help relieve the pain from the lack thereof. Tony to his credit has been doing some of the work now in this regard, but like everything it takes time and lots and lots of it to do. I know I was part of a larger processes and procedures projects for more than a few companies I worked for.

If N3V could establish some guidelines for us, such as templates, design, and information, I would gladly assume the task of writing up procedures for handling content and installation. In the end I would prefer and actual user-manual in PDF form, but as things go today this is all Wiki based and I know for sure, N3V would want this information on the Wiki where they have some documentation already, as well as stuff in the Knowledgebase on the Helpdesk link.

 

[Sean_lee]

Dont get me wrong here, but I have got the Dovetail TS2017 on my computer. The Loco graphics leave Trainz in it wake. Not about to jump ship, as I am a route builder. But something to work towards here. Just putting it out there.

 

[H222]

Except that this is a case of files that won't load into the same version, with only a service pack in between. As long as the product is simply called Trainz: A New Era users are going to assume it's the same software. That's about like having Word 2.01 files that won't load into Word 2.0. The convention is normally that with a major change like that you have a new version number for the software. (And even then there used to be the option to Save As in the earlier format.) But then, who these days even remembers version numbers?

--Lamont

I think you'll find a lot of software actually FORCES people to update to the latest service pack, to avoid this. My Windows 10 refuses to let me Shut Down without updating most times. Then people would whine about that

Dont get me wrong here, but I have got the Dovetail TS2017 on my computer. The Loco graphics leave Trainz in it wake. Not about to jump ship, as I am a route builder. But something to work towards here. Just putting it out there.

It's funny. I hate TS2017's graphics. Once you look closely, most things other than the loco itself lack detail, and the lighting in general is far too dark IMO.

Jamie

 

[Zeldaboy14]

Being one who's played about every version, each new version adds something to the plate. Trainz 1.0 started out as a basic but decent Model Railroading Simulator, and from there, many things in later versions were added. TRS2004 brought us proper steam effects, and interactive passanger stations. 2006 brought us a updated lighting system and some great demos of some maps we know today, notable mention of Hawes Junction. TC 1 2 and 3 brought us to a more modern looking trainz, plus TC3 brought us the full version of Hawes Junction know as Seattle and Carsile. 2009 brought a new system for content creators, plus MANY things we see in modern Trainz right now. 2010 brought the best of both worlds, and 2012 brought us to the DRM Era (ok, that one isn't as good). T:ANE may have looked like a scrap heap in the beginning, but under the hood, it made Trainz look a lot better, and more realistic. So, as you see, every version has brought us something new!

 

[phimat]

Being one who's played about every version, each new version adds something to the plate. Trainz 1.0 started out as a basic but decent Model Railroading Simulator, and from there, many things in later versions were added. TRS2004 brought us proper steam effects, and interactive passanger stations. 2006 brought us a updated lighting system and some great demos of some maps we know today, notable mention of Hawes Junction. TC 1 2 and 3 brought us to a more modern looking trainz, plus TC3 brought us the full version of Hawes Junction know as Seattle and Carsile. 2009 brought a new system for content creators, plus MANY things we see in modern Trainz right now. 2010 brought the best of both worlds, and 2012 brought us to the DRM Era (ok, that one isn't as good). T:ANE may have looked like a scrap heap in the beginning, but under the hood, it made Trainz look a lot better, and more realistic. So, as you see, every version has brought us something new!

TANE SP2 also brought us a new route save format that is not compatible with any previous version, TANE SP1 included. Most people want to shy away from this issue - see above - but it will be as significant for us as the introduction of DRM was with the last SP for Tr2012.

So, this change won't be as good either...

 

[S301]

TANE SP2 also brought us a new route save format that is not compatible with any previous version, TANE SP1 included. Most people want to shy away from this issue - see above - but it will be as significant for us as the introduction of DRM was with the last SP for Tr2012.

So, this change won't be as good either...

Route format changes have occurred multiple times over the years, including within the same version. It happened, from what I recall, in TS2010 and in TS12; both times to make either improvements or bug fixes to the route formats. This is one of the reasons why the Trainz-Build number is increased in some builds, as well as to cater for new functionality (i.e. new tags) being made available for assets.

At no point have we ever guaranteed 'forwards compatibility' of any version, and this includes older builds of the same release (i.e. we do not guarantee that TANE 'vanilla' or SP1 will be able to use content created in TANE SP2). Or more, the 'forwards compatibility' of TANE for TANE SP2 routes is to install the free update. If you want a route to work in TANE 'vanilla' (no updates/service packs) then it MUST be built in that version or a version prior to it. Otherwise all users will need to use that version of Trainz...

Regards
Zec