CP Rail Kicking Horse pass

Kinda steep prices:

$70 CPR Mountain Sub. BC,CA
$40 The Laggan Sub
$40 Rogers Pass
$25 Columbia River Basin
$25 Kicking Horse River Pass
 
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Thank you Paul for pointing Train20 in the direction.
The cascadexxx.... post amazes me and not at the same time.
This forum has many times unreasonable or totally off posts and strange comments.
If you make a comment like that first proof you do the same amount of work, quality,size and result ( if can) and present it to the audience, maintain and upgrade it and than think twice before you say something so groundless,almost insulting.:eek:

@Train20 Paul summed up possibilites of routes or combined routes
The CPR Mountain Sub combines Rogers Pass,Columbia River Basin AND the Kicking Horse Passage up to south of Field.
The Laggan Sub section West continues and connects to the before mentioned route via I-portal and runs all the way North of Canmore later all the way into Calgary.
for those Who not familiar yet with my routes,size and quality and what you can do more than just drive trains I allow so called start and get a feel and be the smaller section here 25 usd... and drive them they all have I-portals and connect to any other route you want them to connect too.

sniff the atmosphere and visit my threads here on the forum
http://forums.auran.com/trainz/showthread.php?68128-Canadian-Rocky-Mountains-2011&highlight=joosten
other thread you find also on this forum
http://forums.auran.com/trainz/show...ble-on-Roy-s-Trainz-website&highlight=joosten

hope this helps and if you need more info just pm or email me, more than help to help you.

have a nice day.

Roy:wave:
 
I will attest to what Paul has said. This is MORE than worth the price paid for the route. It is totally amazing and one of the few routes I have purchased or even installed from a third party.

There is so much work that has gone into this, not just with the beautiful mountains, but also with the amount of detail, custom textures, fixed junctions, and all kinds of other things I can't think of at the moment. We can only imagine what this route will look like in T:ANE when that comes out and hopefully lives up to the expectations that N3V has given us.

John
 
Another route I might have recommended is MBC2010.

http://www.doug56.net/MBC/

This route, which includes the Kicking Horse Pass, was stared in TS2009, upgraded to TS2010 and then to TS2012 version 49922. It models the Mountain Subdivision of the Canadian Pacific Railway through the Kicking Horse Pass in the Rocky Mountains and Rogers Pass in the Selkirks Mountains. It includes the Spiral Tunnels, Connaught Tunnel and Macdonald Tunnel. The route attempts to follow the terrain and surroundings circa 2010 as closely as the author’s knowledge allows.

Unfortunately, TS2012 version 61388 (which is more a new release than an upgrade to version 49922) obsoleted much of the assets and, in particular, JVC assets so the route cannot be used with this version of Trainz. The same is expected for Trainz: A New Era when this version is released, as the incompatibility of assets will likely be carried forward.

An 1887 version of the route is in the works but likely will not be released as it to is not compatible with Trainz 12 version 61388 and therefore not likely to be compatible with Trainz: A New Era, when it is released.

If you have or can purchase Trainz 2012 version 49922 you may want to consider MBC2010 which is a free download from the website cited above. However, keep in mind that it uses JVC assets, which are payware.

Cayden
 
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cascaderailroad said:
Kinda steep prices:

$70 CPR Mountain Sub. BC,CA
$40 The Laggan Sub
$40 Rogers Pass
$25 Columbia River Basin
$25 Kicking Horse River Pass
Click to expand...

I take it you don't have any of the routes, so why comment on something you don't have? Just be honest, and say I can't afford the prices.

John
 
JohnnyC1 said:
I take it you don't have any of the routes, so why comment on something you don't have? Just be honest, and say I can't afford the prices. John
Click to expand...
I'm sure that with 2 people working on this huge route, for hundreds of thousands of hours, and years of work, that it has 400 MillionBillionTrillion trees, and textures galore, it is a huge undertaking to complete.

But if I bought a $39 video game and spent over $100 on each and every payware route out there (amounting to another $1000), and also bought over $1000 in addtional payware locos, that would be several thousand dollars of money outlaid ... Then this game of Trainz would soon become a, jump aboard the band wagon, money making business disease, like Railworks, where everything is payware.

No ... I can NOT afford to lay out huge sums of money, for every huge route that comes out ... Although I am sure this route is worthy of payware prices.

All I said was that the prices are kinda steep ... and they are steep.

Just because several people go out and pay to dine at the ritzy Capitol Grill, and they spend several hundred dollars for a dinner for 2, and verbally attest to all the world, that the $12 of actual raw food products prepared, was well worth the several hundred dollars of money outlaid ... That still does not make the dining experience "Not Steep" !

You might just say: "Well then ... Don't buy it" ... For somebody else will come along and buy them.

There are several vendors out there, that are charging high prices for assets, like they are plastic and brass locos and cars ... when they are not real tangable items at all ... these are a virtual product, on a PC screen, that you can not actually hold in your hand, and can not re-sell to others (like you can do with model trains), and someday Trainz will all go away, and we will wonder what we spent all that money on, an expensive item, and a game, that does not exist anymore.
 
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Oh my, this is turning into another Cloakedghost-style argument.

Sirgibby made a lovely route and decided it was worth $20. Roy made a lovely route and decided it was worth $100 or whatever. As payware vendors they are free to charge whatever they feel is worth the effort they spent on it. Not to say Mr. Sutton's route is only a fifth as good as Roy's, it's just what they felt was an appropriate compensation.

If you think Trainz payware prices are steep, wait until you hear about flight simulation.
 
Like any hobby, people will spend little or they will spend a lot, depending upon what they want. Even at the prices shown here, this is quite a bargain considering what many people spend for a single locomotive or train car for a real model railroad, and the amount of use we get out of a route this huge. The drive alone from Otter Creek to the Lake Viktor portal takes over 4 hours. On my session, I have opposing traffic which causes laybys as they pass. There are also some great interactive industries in various places where switching operations can take place in addition to the run-through trains I have setup. This truly is a work of art and probably worth more than what was charged for the route.

When I was at the Big-E show in Springfield this past winter, the prices were astronomical, in my opinion, for many models. There were many plastic locomotives going for way over the $250 mark, and simple freight cars in the $20-40 range. The Thomas the Train train sets were in the hundreds as well. I can't fathom giving a set like this to a salivating 2-year old which I saw plenty of at the show.

John
 
Well, I could see this being worth even more! It looks to be very well done. I would guess those who buy every part of it will have years and years of enjoyment from it. I do plan on buying the whole shebang one of these days. The only reason I have not bought it already is, if I get it now, I will never bother to finish my route. My short time as a rookie route builder has shown me just how much work goes into it. I've used up many hours of my life. It's a fun past time MOST of the time. I believe this massive well done job is worth every penny and more.

Cheers to all....Rick
 
rickf77 said:
Well, I could see this being worth even more! It looks to be very well done. I would guess those who buy every part of it will have years and years of enjoyment from it. ... I believe this massive well done job is worth every penny and more.

Cheers to all....Rick
Click to expand...

Hey Rick! Nice to see you around again. You haven't made any posts lately at Yz-Yz! Wife Okay and mending? //F

As far as the price point goes, you gets what you pay for, but if you want to charge primo prices, you best be bundling at least 5-7 primo written sessions.

I got no use for a route that I have to study and write my own sessions to enjoy driving. I drive when the brain stops functioniing well enough to work my own Trainz. Maybe after I retire, could spend days driving something else, but if you want my dimes, better have lots of switching sessions! (Like John, I fall asleep on the long haul drives more often than I like! LOL) // Frank
 
I remember my envy of brass trains on display and then remember tiny layouts the will run on. With these routes and good payware locomotives/rolling stock, I get to go beyond what I could ever dream of affording in HO scale. Besides, if you pay monthly for internet, utilities, and housing, you can save $1 a day for two and a half months, until saving enough to buy the routes. Heck, throw in some recycled cans and bottles deposits, get enough money sooner. The choices are so easy to make.


Paul
 
Fabartus said:
Hey Rick! Nice to see you around again. You haven't made any posts lately at Yz-Yz! Wife Okay and mending? //F

As far as the price point goes, you gets what you pay for, but if you want to charge primo prices, you best be bundling at least 5-7 primo written sessions.

I got no use for a route that I have to study and write my own sessions to enjoy driving. I drive when the brain stops functioniing well enough to work my own Trainz. Maybe after I retire, could spend days driving something else, but if you want my dimes, better have lots of switching sessions! (Like John, I fall asleep on the long haul drives more often than I like! LOL) // Frank
Click to expand...

I disagree. In most cases it's best to create your own sessions even for the routes we purchase. I have the Marias Pass X. It comes with some sessions. They're nice, but they're already made. There is no challenge or in some cases fun on learning the route as we explore it while creating our own sessions. This is a good way to qualify a route. Lothar and the rest of HP-Trainz kindly created a base session upon which we can create our own. They did this due to the custom scripts which can't be touched. Settle and Carlisle, also a very nice route. This comes with a ton of sessions. I drove them, then made my own as I found it more interesting. Murchison by Sir Gibby is the same. This one comes with about 12 sessions maybe more.

I could go on with East Kentucky by Deremmy, Jointed Rail's Midwest Grain, Dave Snow's Ozark Valley. I went as far as to merge these three together and created an awesome Missouri to across the Mississippi River and on to Kansas route. The thing is with a conglomeration such as this, it becomes difficult to use the supplied sessions because they only exist for that portion of the world, and when the routes get merged, this stuff becomes irrelevant in many cases.

The other issue too is many users use their own rolling stock. The route creator will have his or her choice rolling stock and others will have their own set. I personally use mostly Jointed Rail locomotives and a lot of their rolling stock. Other route builders will not have these, and they cannot upload the payware content to the DLS, or supply it with the route. This will break the sessions and cause missing dependencies, and will mess things up by creating ghosts. I don't mean Casper the friendly ones either. I mean consists that are now listed in the session's config.txt file but are no longer on the route. I ran into this with a couple of routes I have worked on and edited the sessions over the years. That route's session had consists listed that were long removed. This maybe a bug, but surely the best way to avoid this is to only use the current assets for the session and not add some in and delete them unless you really need to, thus, supplying generic consists in the session and the later only to have the user remove only makes this worse.

So, having a running sessions is okay, but not a necessary evil. This route truly is a gem and some day I will have a chance to show it to you on my PC running my own session which I drive quite often.

John
 
It's like all hobbies, you can spend a little or a lot. Maybe I'm different, but to me time is worth more than money...maybe because I'm 63. I'd like to have more of both! When I see something like this mega route, I start thinking of all the work, starting from the researching and everything else after that. If you want to make a little money in the Trainz world, you better give us something great. I believe this is really great.

Thanks for asking Frank! Things have been looking up since June 6. It's nice to have my old, whoops, I mean perfect, wife back. I hope and pray I never have to go through that again! Frank, I gotta tell ya, I am not worthy of belonging to that fine group of trainzers. I just don't have the skills or knowledge. I will peek in now and then and if I ever learn anything useful I will be more than happy to do whatever I can.

Cheers....Rick
 
JCitron said:
I disagree. In most cases it's best to create your own sessions even for the routes we purchase. I have the Marias Pass X. It comes with some sessions. They're nice, but they're already made. There is no challenge or in some cases fun on learning the route as we explore it while creating our own sessions. This is a good way to qualify a route. Lothar and the rest of HP-Trainz kindly created a base session upon which we can create our own. They did this due to the custom scripts which can't be touched. Settle and Carlisle, also a very nice route. This comes with a ton of sessions. I drove them, then made my own as I found it more interesting. Murchison by Sir Gibby is the same. This one comes with about 12 sessions maybe more.
Click to expand...
John, I was merely talking about Value added. If the route doesn't have sessions now, and I have to work to make it run, it's a net loss if it involves cash out of pocket I could spend on books, for one example: Time costs+cash out.

Bad enough having to find time to study a small free route, without paying for one with a need to study what's there and figure out scenarios cold out of the gate. Well scripted Sessions like HP-Trainz let you take the route knowledge learning curves whilst driving and building knowledge of what the route features, and then still gives you all the payback your'e talking about. And Contrast that style of page prompted mid-course series of instructions sessions to the Too Brief-Tell-You-Just-Once-w/o feedback style sessions like the Seattle and Carlisle terse style sessions instructions at YOUR PERIL... meaning give and give me a break, that S&C cargo run is a record I set that will stand until Hell freezeth over -- who else could score -837 points and miss it was happening! Hmmmmm. <BSEG>


  • Funny story guys and gals--it was a first try and didn't realize the supplemental rules on reducing freights speed limits in the UK. Having misidentified where I was, I slowed down. When I later figured it out, I speeded up to get back on schedule, just under the posted speeds... but over clocked for the freights. The penalties totally killed my prior accumulated score. OUCH! But a LOL experience too!

Given a tech manual, or the time, certainly I could write sessions, and in fact frequently do--by starting often from one already written and imaging a different 'better' sequence as I see it. And you describe doing exactly that on your list of famous routes. The question is how to fit such learning curves into a non-retiree lifestyle, not one of lacking motivation to want to do, as you do.

You of all people on the forum know how tight my time is to do all I'm trying to do. We talk nearly daily, forsooth! You've been here seeing me with 20+ open processes and running 3-4 CMPs at once. So credit the fact there is value in the entertainment of driving. I wasn't being critical, just stating a buyers philosophy! My dime, my time, my choice. Knowing how fussy you are about routes and their appearance, gives the route a great deal of credibility in my eyes, so different strokes for different folks. We both know you didn't drive much at all until this past summer when I got you going on it more right here in the kitchen. Now you need to master steam. Let me know when and if you beat Marias Pass Steam. <g> (The gauntlet is down! Choose your weapons!) // F
JCitron said:
I could go on with East Kentucky by Deremmy, Jointed Rail's Midwest Grain, Dave Snow's Ozark Valley. I went as far as to merge these three together and created an awesome Missouri to across the Mississippi River and on to Kansas route. The thing is with a conglomeration such as this, it becomes difficult to use the supplied sessions because they only exist for that portion of the world, and when the routes get merged, this stuff becomes irrelevant in many cases.
Click to expand...
I seem to recall you falling asleep all the time while in the midst of driving it, and talking to me doing so. I can forgive the former, but the latter is downright rude! Besides I've flown it with you in Surveyor mode and we beat up Windwalkr over the performance seizings, freezings, and pauses and stutters after that 5 hour intro to TS12 last Summer. Nice job still. A little crazy, but nice! <BSEG> You folks should see some of John's work. Alas he's shy. // F

JCitron said:
So, having a running sessions is okay, but not a necessary evil. This route truly is a gem and some day I will have a chance to show it to you on my PC running my own session which I drive quite often. John
Click to expand...
I will count on it. Now that your household is returning to normal, perhaps soonish. BUT! I so do believe you misspoke here! "Necessary" and "Evil" make it an oxymoron. I said it was necessary FOR ME, not the least bit evil. Evil TO ME, is producing an beautiful route and not having parallel sessions developing when testing out a new section. Those stimulate session ideas as I place things, and an itch to try it out.

Where's the difficulty in making some AI Drivers using the new area and coming up with a scenario to test it out. Gives a good QA workout to an area (and the nascent session) before it's really detailed, and the test rides let me appreciate what things viewwise will look best in the forthcoming detailing, or need adjusted as such progresses. Besides, driving or monitoring the AI quirks in supervisor mode after burning out by surveying all day is a relaxing change of pace. It lets you debug the session too.

You know how crazy my 'Highland Valley Pumped' route is (1x4 transformed into 16x25 same kind of multi-tiered Mountainous terrain theme... it's insanely intense. Every direction you go, there's always something around the bend and especially over the ridge), all the 16 AIs' plus the transiting Portal generated traffic going on--most all those began as test drives to simulate real world activities... and especially to stress test things like signalling and timing of traffic. So that kind of thing can be done as soon as the track is laid and the industries are placed. (The 16 AI's on looping programmed runs, varying their tasks, usually three or more major destinations pairs--pickup and deliveries, etc. Locos don't sit idle much! Do couple and decouple different consists in some of them, and that was a challenge to work out.)
JCitron said:
The other issue too is many users use their own rolling stock. The route creator will have his or her choice rolling stock and others will have their own set. I personally use mostly Jointed Rail locomotives and a lot of their rolling stock. Other route builders will not have these, and they cannot upload the payware content to the DLS, or supply it with the route. This will break the sessions and cause missing dependencies, and will mess things up by creating ghosts. I don't mean Casper the friendly ones either. I mean consists that are now listed in the session's config.txt file but are no longer on the route. I ran into this with a couple of routes I have worked on and edited the sessions over the years. That route's session had consists listed that were long removed. This maybe a bug, but surely the best way to avoid this is to only use the current assets for the session and not add some in and delete them unless you really need to, thus, supplying generic consists in the session and the later only to have the user remove only makes this worse.
Click to expand...
Somewhat irrelevant. If making your own session, or altering one, of course you are in charge of the canvas and substitute to suit yourself. You know my philosophy on content. If the CC wants to use special non-DLS content, first do one version with stock DLS content, and offer the variant with a clear description of that is used. You don't browse via the black pages anymore, but one benefit to route shopping there is the enhanced descriptions frequently point exactly that sort of thing out. // Frank
 
rickf77 said:
It's like all hobbies, you can spend a little or a lot. Maybe I'm different, but to me time is worth more than money...maybe because I'm 63. I'd like to have more of both! When I see something like this mega route, I start thinking of all the work, starting from the researching and everything else after that. If you want to make a little money in the Trainz world, you better give us something great. I believe this is really great.

Thanks for asking Frank! Things have been looking up since June 6. It's nice to have my old, whoops, I mean perfect, wife back. I hope and pray I never have to go through that again! Frank, I gotta tell ya, I am not worthy of belonging to that fine group of trainzers. I just don't have the skills or knowledge. I will peek in now and then and if I ever learn anything useful I will be more than happy to do whatever I can.

Cheers....Rick
Click to expand...
Yesterdayz-Trainz is about getting those skills too, Rick. Nothing says you have to be one of the gurus starting out. A third of us are at your level, give or take, so connect with them and learn together. I can lecture on route building and sessions. Comes to asset creation, I'm in the same classroom chair with you (though I hope I have a bit of an edge for being able to tie in other computer knowledge). Don't be a stranger, and stay involved! // Frank
 
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