Content Manager- what does " Packaged " mean ?????

[pware]

So for me « Third Party » are not temporarily assets withdrawn from the DLS but rather new available assets on the DLS currently not listed in the DLS directory listings.

Thanks for that Pierre.

 

[johnarran]

Well I've just read the entire thread and I have to say it's just fried my brain. What a dog's mess!

I would have thought the simplest solution would have been that if it's a 'New' DLC the whole content should be new, not include stuff borrowed/taken for the DLS and making the DLS stuff obsolete.

Having so many status values does not make it easy and overwhelms many people. Hence why I download so little and make my own models.

What's the old saying... oh yes ... KISS

Just my thoughts and no offence intended.

John

 

[pware]

I would have thought the simplest solution would have been that if it's a 'New' DLC the whole content should be new, not include stuff borrowed/taken for the DLS and making the DLS stuff obsolete.

Stuff borrowed from the DLS and included in a DLC package is not made obsolete. The original DLS assets are still there and available for download by anyone who needs them. In fact I have had a number of "Packaged" assets that have been updated by newer versions on the DLS and those updated assets are now showing as "Installed from the DLS" instead of the "Packaged" that they previously had. The original "Packaged" assets now have the status of "Packaged, Obsolete".

Having so many status values does not make it easy and overwhelms many people. Hence why I download so little and make my own models.

Each to their own but with more demands for more features and content sources, things had to change.

Just my thoughts and no offence intended.

None taken.

I have just completed and uploaded a preliminary Guide to Understanding Content Manager Status Labels on the Trainz Wiki. If anyone is interested in giving it a critical once over please feel free to comment in this thread. It can be found at https://online.ts2009.com/mediaWiki/index.php/Understand_Content_Manager_Status_Labels

 

[ZecMurphy]

Hi All

To clarify, again, as some users seem intent on making this as complex as possible. For current DLC packs, there are two relevant statuses which are:

Packaged = Included in a DLC pack, but not encrypted. So DLS, or 3rd party website freeware.

Packaged, Payware = Included in a DLC pack, and payware encrypted.


Any additions to this status are telling you something (an update is available, it's been obsoleted by a newer version, or there's an issue/error, or it's not active). These should be relatively obvious, but unless they asset is not actually working you can normally ignore it.



I will re-iterate again though that we will NOT be removing DLS content from DLC packs. Users purchasing/installing DLC packs expect all assets to be included in the DLC pack, we have spent nearly 15 years (ie before we introduced this DLC pack system) having to explain to people how to install DLS content (or dependencies packs) for content they purchased. Most of the time with very, very, very angry people because their paid for asset is 'broken' (missing assets). So simply, it is a customer expectation for DLC packs to include all required parts.


As it stands, DLS assets are packaged from the DLS in DLC packs. So there should not be any difference (apart from the asset using .texture files for the textures) between the DLS and DLC pack versions of assets.

Again, I should note that there are a number of older DLC packs which this doesn't apply to. With TRS22 we will be re-packaging these DLC packs to the latest format, which will resolve this issue.

Regards

 

[johnarran]

I have just completed and uploaded a preliminary Guide to Understanding Content Manager Status Labels on the Trainz Wiki. If anyone is interested in giving it a critical once over please feel free to comment in this thread. It can be found at https://online.ts2009.com/mediaWiki/index.php/Understand_Content_Manager_Status_Labels

Hi pware,

Just had a read, very useful and easier to understand than the postings made on the forum. Again, no offence made towards the other guys/girls.

One thing made clearer already ( I think) is..

Packaged The asset is on the DLS and is also included in a DLC package that you have installed



I originally thought that the asset was only available as part of the DLC that needed to be installed. So If I read this correctly, If I don't have the package already and don't want to download the whole package (to save disk space) I can just download the asset fron the DLS. Is this correct?

Thanks,

John

 

[pware]

Zec, thanks for the clarifications. I have updated the Wiki page to include them.

John, thanks for the positive review.

I originally thought that the asset was only available as part of the DLC that needed to be installed. So If I read this correctly, If I don't have the package already and don't want to download the whole package (to save disk space) I can just download the asset fron the DLS. Is this correct?

There is no way of downloading just some of a DLC package - it is all or nothing. If you already have an asset from the DLS that is also included in the DLC pack you are downloading, then you will not end up with two copies of that exact same asset on your system. If the DLC version is an update to the DLS version then both will be retained on your system - the original will be labelled "Obsolete" and the newer version, from the DLC pack, will be labelled "Packaged". If there is no change to the asset version (i.e. both are identical) then your copy will be relabelled "Packaged".

 

[pware]

Third Party mysteries

I have come across a group of assets that are all classified as Third Party in CM yet were all downloaded and installed from the DLS. They are all by the same creator, elstoko.

<kuid2:368725:49017:2> Protrack NSWGR rail-flat-rusty-left
<kuid2:368725:49001:1> Protrack NSWGR plateless-spikes-left
<kuid2:368725:49018:2> Protrack NSWGR rail-flat-rusty-right
<kuid2:368725:49002:1> Protrack NSWGR plateless-spikes-right
<kuid2:368725:49015:1> Protrack NSWGR rail-flat-bright-left
<kuid2:368725:49016:1> Protrack NSWGR rail-flat-bright-right
<kuid2:368725:49013:1> Protrack NSWGR sleepers-timber-mid life-plateless height
<kuid2:368725:49014:1> Protrack NSWGR sleepers-timber-old-plateless height

They are, as their names imply, components or elements of Procedural Track and are dependencies of Protrack assets by other creators.

They were automatically downloaded when I installed the following Protrack assets by higgikay.

<kuid2:182464:81012:1> Protrack 42in ashes, mid-life timber, directly spiked
<kuid2:182464:81018:1> Protrack 42in dirty stone, mid-life timber, directly spiked, rusty rail
<kuid2:182464:81010:1> Protrack 42in ashes, old timber, directly spiked
<kuid2:182464:81003:1> Protrack 42in no ballast, mid-life timber, directly spiked
<kuid2:182464:81011:1> Protrack 42in ashes, old timber, directly spiked, rusty rail
<kuid:182464:81017> Protrack 42in dirty stone, mid-life timber, directly spiked
<kuid2:182464:81013:1> Protrack 42in dirty stone, old timber, directly spiked
<kuid2:182464:81014:1> Protrack 42in dirty stone, old timber, directly spiked, rusty rail
<kuid2:182464:81001:1> Protrack 42in no ballast, old timber, directly spiked
<kuid2:182464:81002:1> Protrack 42in no ballast, old timber, directly spiked, rusty rail
<kuid:182464:81025> Protrack 42in rusty rails only

If I focus on just one of the Third Party assets, <kuid2:368725:49017:2> Protrack NSWGR rail-flat-rusty-left, and examine it in detail using CM, I discover that it has two earlier versions, both are on the DLS.

<kuid2:368725:49017:2> Protrack NSWGR rail-flat-rusty-left (classified as Third Party)
<kuid2:368725:49017:1> Protrack NSWGR rail-flat-rusty-left (classified as Available for Download, Obsolete)
<kuid:368725:49017> Protrack NSWGR rail-flat-rusty-left (classified as Available for Download, Obsolete)

If I delete the first item in the list, I see this

<kuid2:368725:49017:2> <unknown asset>
<kuid2:368725:49017:1> Protrack NSWGR rail-flat-rusty-left (classified as Available for Download, Obsolete)
<kuid:368725:49017> Protrack NSWGR rail-flat-rusty-left (classified as Available for Download, Obsolete)

I can then select the "<unknown asset>", download and install it from the DLS.

Is this Third Party asset coming from a 3rd party web site that has been linked to the DLS database? If so then this would mean that non-DLS assets (or some of them at least) can be accessed through the DLS. If true then I have not seen any official announcement of this from N3V.

Curious.

One possible thought is that this may have something to do with the new DLC Packaged classification where assets used in a DLC package can come from 3rd party sites as well as the DLS.

My observations.

 

[p-dehnert]

The meaning of Third Party is explained in this thread.

Disabling an asset (menu Content -> Disable) adds disabled to the Status, except for payware asset (Packaged,Payware or Built-in,Payware), which get (not active) added to the status.

Peter

 

[pware]

The meaning of Third Party is explained in this thread.

Disabling an asset (menu Content -> Disable) adds disabled to the Status, except for payware asset (Packaged,Payware or Built-in,Payware), which get (not active) added to the status.

Peter

Ahh thank you Peter. I have been scratching my head trying to figure out the mystery of the "Third Party" (and why I wasn't invited) and you have added some more info about "(not active)".

Peter!

 

[G.M.]

Let analyse the explanation from Chris/windwalker

"Third Party" is displayed when you have installed content which isn't in the DLS listing.
If the content is legitimately sourced from the DLS, then it is hidden from the listing in some fashion
(for example, it's faulty or otherwise inappropriate for direct download).
In this scenario, we allow still allow downloading as a dependency of some other object.
chris

Sentence1: "Third Party" is displayed when you have installed content which isn't in the DLS listing.
I have thousands of assets which are not in the DLS listing
yet here they often show as "modified" in 99% of the cases I did NOT modify them,
I merely downloaded them from a website(not being the DLS) and installed them
or I made them myself from scratch.


They classify, in their eyes faulty/inappropriate content as "Third Party"
how can anyone understand this?


Sentence4: In this scenario, we allow still allow downloading as a dependency of some other object.
Sounds like a Chuck Norris quote: You are alive because I allow you to be alive !


I will be bashed, as usual, I don't care, the system is unclear and incorrect.

 

[JCitron]

Let analyse the explanation from Chris/windwalker





Sentence1: "Third Party" is displayed when you have installed content which isn't in the DLS listing.
I have thousands of assets which are not in the DLS listing
yet here they often show as "modified" in 99% of the cases I did NOT modify them,
I merely downloaded them from a website(not being the DLS) and installed them
or I made them myself from scratch.


They classify, in their eyes faulty/inappropriate content as "Third Party"
how can anyone understand this?


Sentence4: In this scenario, we allow still allow downloading as a dependency of some other object.
Sounds like a Chuck Norris quote: You are alive because I allow you to be alive !


I will be bashed, as usual, I don't care, the system is unclear and incorrect.

Not bashing, probably right!

After running a EDBR, I had a bunch of modified assets that really had come down from the DLS, or were DLC and built in. I knew what they were from memory. (I have memory for somethings, but the RAM has a caching problem, and I don't remember what I'm supposed to all the time!) I ended right-clicking and doing a revert to original on these assets and the status changed from modified to packaged and Installed from the DLS.

"Modified" in CM's eyes a catch-all for "I don't know really where this comes from therefore, I'll say it's modified even if it isn't!"

 

[1611mac]

Not bashing, probably right!
After running a EDBR, I had a bunch of modified assets that really had come down from the DLS, or were DLC and built in. I knew what they were from memory. (I have memory for somethings, but the RAM has a caching problem, and I don't remember what I'm supposed to all the time!) I ended right-clicking and doing a revert to original on these assets and the status changed from modified to packaged and Installed from the DLS.

"Modified" in CM's eyes a catch-all for "I don't know really where this comes from therefore, I'll say it's modified even if it isn't!"

Curious... did the items that changed status still have the exact same kuid version? (and... maybe your RAM is just mis-matched like mine. The left side doesn't match what the right side is doing!)

 

[JCitron]

Curious... did the items that changed status still have the exact same kuid version? (and... maybe your RAM is just mis-matched like mine. The left side doesn't match what the right side is doing!)

I think it was the same version, but I'm not sure. If this was after and EDBR, then there's a very good chance it was.

My RAM could be mismatched. I have stutters periodically while performing some tasks and end up with surging movements.

 

[G.M.]

Made a proposal list for the "status" column in Content Manager
in this post
feel free to help make it better

 

[johnarran]

Made a proposal list for the "status" column in Content Manager
in this post
feel free to help make it better

They seem very sensible suggestions to me G.M. and are clear to understand.

I doubt however that N3V will take this onboard. Replies from N3V so far imply big brother attitude 'hey guys, it's simple learn the system'. With the amount of comments so far it is clear that the status column needs looking at again.

You have my support for what it's worth. If this forum engine supported thumbs up it would get one from me.

Cheers,

John

 

[pware]

In my experience, every asset I have that is listed as "Modified" in CM is one that I have

• created myself, or
• edited in CM, or
• cloned (in which case it is given a new kuid starting with my kuid code).

I was very confused by the meaning of "Third Party" but the explanations given by Chris and additional info from Pierre, together with my own past experiences, has now cleared that up. My understanding of "Third Party" is that it will appear on assets that:-

• you have uploaded to the DLS but they have not yet been approved for distribution. After approval the Third Party label will be changed to Installed from DLS
• have been removed from the DLS for some reason after it was downloaded and installed on your system. Reasons for removal can include copyright violation and undergoing repair. If you include these assets in Routes or Session that you upload then they will appear as <unknown assets> for those who download and install your Routes/Sessions. I have experienced this myself with DLS assets that I used in a route which I uploaded and then received messages from users about missing assets that I had on my system (and were from the DLS - mysteriously now labelled as "Third Party") but had now vanished from the DLS. Copyright violation by the asset creator was the reason given by N3V. I had to edit and upload a new version of the route.
• are not in the DLS listing but may still be downloaded from the DLS as a dependency of other assets. Chris mentioned that these assets have been removed (but still kept available as dependencies only) for various reasons.

Offering alternative opinions or views, or engaging in a debate, is not "bashing".

My opinions

 

[caroper]

Well being a returning user, after a decade or so if absence, I decided that my retirement gift to myself would be a PC with the full specification and recommended graphics to run the latest and greatest version of Trains.
I fell for the marketing and bought TRS2019 Premium edition thinking that, like the earlier versions that I bought over the years, the additional content would be available for route creation.
I then found out that it was all marked as "premium content" and, as I have no intention to run the routs provided, constitute a waist of money if I cant use the downloaded assets in my own routes because they are not available to the larger community.
What was meant to be my retirement dream is turning into a nightmare and on my pension in Africa I can't afford the subscription needed to get a working version.

 

[stagecoach]

All content on the DLS is free. I think you are looking in the Trainz store at DLC packages. On the launch screen, open content manager, and where it says installed, change it to download station for all the free content.

 

[pware]

To add to Stagecoach's comments, there are (and I just checked) 594,722 free items available for download from the Download Station. They include some excellent and complete high quality routes and sessions (sessions did not exist in Trainz UTC).

You can use Content Manager, which will be a learning curve as there was no equivalent in Trainz UTC (and probably not Android), to filter those numbers down to a very specific list.

If you need any help just ask in the forums.

 

[pware]

Something has happened. Today when I opened up CM and checked for Updates that were available the following list appeared.

I have come across a group of assets that are all classified as Third Party in CM yet were all downloaded and installed from the DLS. They are all by the same creator, elstoko.
<kuid2:368725:49017:2> Protrack NSWGR rail-flat-rusty-left
<kuid2:368725:49001:1> Protrack NSWGR plateless-spikes-left
<kuid2:368725:49018:2> Protrack NSWGR rail-flat-rusty-right
<kuid2:368725:49002:1> Protrack NSWGR plateless-spikes-right
<kuid2:368725:49015:1> Protrack NSWGR rail-flat-bright-left
<kuid2:368725:49016:1> Protrack NSWGR rail-flat-bright-right
<kuid2:368725:49013:1> Protrack NSWGR sleepers-timber-mid life-plateless height
<kuid2:368725:49014:1> Protrack NSWGR sleepers-timber-old-plateless height

The above list was from Post #27 in this thread.

I updated them and now all are shown as "Installed from DLS", no more "Third Party".