Content issues continue to bedevil TRS19

[pware]

My research has added to or modified your results.

From your list:-
<kuid:487560:24800> Relay Box Universal <-- built into TRS 19 SP1 (Classic), Payware in TANE SP4 and TRS 19 Platinum
<kuid:-25:752> Powerstation <--- Not built into Classic or TANE either
<kuid2:113998:9012:1>
<kuid2:82412:300513:2> <-- TUME-300513-Boxcar-50ft-CN, Payware in my Platinum, not present in my Classic and my TANE
<kuid2:82412:300532:2> <-- TUME-300532-Tank-Car-GATX, Built into my Platinum, Payware in my Classic and my TANE
<kuid2:82412:300509:2> <-- TUME-300509-Boxcar-50ft-UP, Built into my Platinum, not present in my Classic, Payware in TANE

Variations from my list:-
<kuid2:66277:10099:1> Power Station 2 is built into my Classic and Platinum
<kuid2:334896:24814:1> Relay Box Universal - same name but different KUID is built into my Classic

A lot depends on which DLC you have installed and if all the updates have come through.

Looks like you forgot to install T:ANE routes.

That solved a lot of my missing content problems.

 

[Lataxe]

A question about the built-in content of TRS 19 Platinum...

To get all of the built-in assets needed by other routes imported from TANE into TRS 19 Platinum, it was necessary to download all of the TRS 19 Platinum Content routes & sessions. But I find the screen of route pics not so usable as a text list of the routes, as in TANE and previous Trainz editions. I would like to declutter this screen of all the routes in which I have no interest. So ....

I notice that the CONTENT screen page with it's list of TRS 19 Platinum routes has both an INSTALL option if the route isn't already installed but also an UNINSTALL option if it is. My question (at last):

If I uninstall a TRS 19 route via the Content Screen option to do so, does this unistall only the route file but leave all the installed assets associated with that route in place?

I'm hoping so as the screen displaying all the installed routes is a right mish-mash of pic-tiles and I would really like to eradicate those pic-tiles for the many routes in which I have no interest ... but without losing the assets involved from my Trainz database.

Thanks in anticipation for any help or advice you can give.

Lataxe

 

[clam1952]

A question about the built-in content of TRS 19 Platinum...

To get all of the built-in assets needed by other routes imported from TANE into TRS 19 Platinum, it was necessary to download all of the TRS 19 Platinum Content routes & sessions. But I find the screen of route pics not so usable as a text list of the routes, as in TANE and previous Trainz editions. I would like to declutter this screen of all the routes in which I have no interest. So ....

I notice that the CONTENT screen page with it's list of TRS 19 Platinum routes has both an INSTALL option if the route isn't already installed but also an UNINSTALL option if it is. My question (at last):

If I uninstall a TRS 19 route via the Content Screen option to do so, does this unistall only the route file but leave all the installed assets associated with that route in place?

I'm hoping so as the screen displaying all the installed routes is a right mish-mash of pic-tiles and I would really like to eradicate those pic-tiles for the many routes in which I have no interest ... but without losing the assets involved from my Trainz database.

Thanks in anticipation for any help or advice you can give.

Lataxe

Removes everything that came with the route that is in the packages folder which is most of the assets that came with it, if you want to declutter routes showing in game, just disable the unwanted routes in manage Content and run a database repair, that leaves the assets intact and route picture is no longer showing.

Needs the DBR to stop it showing.

 

[MSGSapper]

• <kuid2:113998:9012:2> "Stone Ballast Ironore Industry": in "ECML Kings Cross - Edinburgh"
• <kuid:-25:752> "Powerstation": in "Shortline Railroad" and "ECML Kings Cross - Edinburgh"
• <kuid:487560:24800> "Relay Box Universal": in "Mojave Sub Division", "Fall Harvest - Nebraska", "ECML Kings Cross - Edinburgh", "Canadian Rocky Mountains - Rogers Pass", "Shortline Railroad" and "TRS19 Canadian Rocky Mountains - Viktor Lake to Ross Peak & Glacier"
• <kuid2:82412:300532:2> "TUME-300532-Tank-Car-GATX", <kuid2:82412:300513:2> "TUME-300513-Boxcar-50ft-CN" and "<kuid2:82412:300509:2> "TUME-300509-Boxcar-50ft-UP": from sessions of "Milwaukee Road Avery-Drexel", "Fall Harvest - Nebraska" and "Season Town Northern RR"


Looks like you forgot to install T:ANE routes.

HPL/PWARE:

I appreciate your help with this.

Prior to TRS19 this was never an issue with my routes as all content was either built into the basic Trainz major version or available from the DLS for which the route was designed (ie; TRS2012, T:ANE). Now I have to hunt for it, to include items that were once on the DLS. Does anyone else think here, besides myself, this is just plain nuts on the part of N3V to do it this way? I thought the idea was to keep things simple for users?

Bob

 

[Lataxe]

Removes everything that came with the route that is in the packages folder which is most of the assets that came with it, if you want to declutter routes showing in game, just disable the unwanted routes in manage Content and run a database repair, that leaves the assets intact and route picture is no longer showing.

Needs the DBR to stop it showing.

A very handy tip - thank you for my TRS 19 decluttered route & session screen. Now, if only there was a text-based version listing the routes & sessions as in TANE, instead of those pic-tiles. .....

I will ask another question whilst here. I think you may have answered it elsewhere before but I can't, for the life of me, find it with a search.

I have s few assets originally shown as "unknowns" when a route is transferred across from TANE to TRS 19 Platinum. Most of these can be packaged-up in TANE as a CDP then imported into TRS 19 via the Import dialogue. However, there are a very few assets that won't import, seemingly because they have a :127 suffix to their KUID. I vaguely recall that this ":127 syndrome" has a cause and is also fixable. As far as I can see, the assets concerned have a series of "proper" KUIDs with suffix none to :N, with the latest being the one would would normally use. But the route or session file containing the asset wants the :127 version for some puzzling reason, which does exist in my TANE database.

Could you point me at the post that I think you may have already made explaining the issue (and hopefully a fix)? Apologies if I've got the wrong bloke, though but.

Lataxe

 

[stagecoach]

In CM click on the asset and look for asset versions. select the highest number and use download this version then delete the 127 asset.

 

[Lataxe]

In CM click on the asset and look for asset versions. select the highest number and use download this version then delete the 127 asset.

The :127 assets packaged into a CDP from TANE won't install into TRS 19. The latest version of those assets is installed in TRS 19 but the route file imported from TANE to TRS 19 insists on looking fro the :127 version rather than the latest version imported via the TRS 19 DLS and installed in my TRS 19 database.

I've tried editing the config file to replace any instances of the :127 kuids with the latest version, by changing the :127 to :N where N is the latest version downloaded from TRS 19 DLS and successfully submitted to my TRS19 database. However the edit to the config file, although successfully saved, ignores this process and reverts to wanting the :127 version again.

Annoying.

Lataxe

 

[clam1952]

What's the kuid?

The 127 issue is often due to someone uploading a kuid2 without the version number on the end such as kuid2:xxxxxx:xxxxx instead of kuid2:xxxxxx:xxxxx:x
don't think you can still do that now but it did happen in the past.

 

[pware]

Also the :127 suffix (e.g. kuid2:1234:567890:127) is the highest value suffix an asset can have - it is not possible to have :128. This does not mean that an asset cannot have a later update than :127 - it can but updates must have a new kuid (e.g. kuid:1234:568812) after which the updates can continue with added suffixes (e.g. kuid2:1234:568812:1).

 

[pware]

Does anyone else think here, besides myself, this is just plain nuts on the part of N3V to do it this way? I thought the idea was to keep things simple for users?

I agree, this is confusing and would be most certainly discouraging for many. I do not know enough about the DLC packaging system to be able to offer an explanation or a possible future solution that will not "break" past DLC packages or cause other problems. I would hope that it is something N3V are looking at, even if an immediate fix is not possible.

 

[Lataxe]

What's the kuid?

The 127 issue is often due to someone uploading a kuid2 without the version number on the end such as kuid2:xxxxxx:xxxxx instead of kuid2:xxxxxx:xxxxx:x
don't think you can still do that now but it did happen in the past.

Good morning Clam.

Sorry about the delay in replying - ladywife directives, see.

The assets with the :127 issue are these:

<kuid2:116296:16104:127>
<kuid2:146087:27104:127>
<kuid2:116296:16107:127>
<kuid2:116296:16106:127>
<kuid2:116296:16105:127>
<kuid2:116296:16108:127>
<kuid2:116296:16115:127>
<kuid2:116296:16117:127>


<kuid2:116296:16105:1> back to back platform seat
<kuid2:116296:16103:1> sign halt at junction
<kuid2:146087:27103:1> Ciuffi erba secca
<kuid2:116296:16104:1> sign cattle crossing
<kuid2:146087:27104:1> ciuffi verdi
<kuid2:116296:16115:1> sign bus stop
<kuid2:116296:16117:1> sign cross roads
<kuid2:116296:16108:1> sign major road ahead
<kuid2:116296:16107:1> sign road bends
<kuid2:116296:16106:1> sign road junction
<kuid2:116296:16111:1> sign T junction

The first list is the list of unknown dependencies obtained from filtering "installed = false" on the display of all dependencies of a route I have installed.

The second list is the current list of the same dependencies at their true latest version, all installed in my TRS 19 database. All but two are older assets by Skipper1945.

The route file has references to the :127 versions in the config file. These versions of the assets actually exist in my TANE database and can be packaged into a CDP. But TRS 19 import process refuses to install the :127 assets from that CDP file into the TRS 19 database. The route file thus shows an error of "missing dependencies".

I try to edit the config file of the TRS 19 version of the route to have the current and installed versions of those assets called rather than the :127 versions. The route config file saves without error but when I call it up after successful submission back into the TRS 19 database, it still shows the same error. Examination of the config file shows the kuids in question have reverted once more to the :127s.

*****
I understand that the :127 kuids arise after some form of faulty submission or other process that auto-awards this :127 suffix. But I can't seem to find any way to get rid of the config file references to them. Nor do I understand how the config file came to call them in the first place.

Lataxe

 

[stagecoach]

Have you tried delete missing assets?

 

[Lataxe]

Have you tried delete missing assets?

That will work - but all of the items represented by those assets would then be absent from the route. Sometimes this is not a big issue but sometimes the use of the asset(s) involved is extensive. For example, the :127 Skipper1945 assets are road signs, which are all over the route where there are road junctions and so forth. It would be tiresome to have to go over the whole (extensive) route to replace them all with the proper version, one by one.

I'm trying to think of a way to replace them globally but so far no clever process occurs to me.

Lataxe

 

[stagecoach]

How about add an obsolete table to the TRS19 assets making the 127 version obsolete? I did get rid of all my 127 versions by deleting the 27 or obsolete it. And also change the kuid in the asset.

 

[clam1952]

That will work - but all of the items represented by those assets would then be absent from the route. Sometimes this is not a big issue but sometimes the use of the asset(s) involved is extensive. For example, the :127 Skipper1945 assets are road signs, which are all over the route where there are road junctions and so forth. It would be tiresome to have to go over the whole (extensive) route to replace them all with the proper version, one by one.

I'm trying to think of a way to replace them globally but so far no clever process occurs to me.

Lataxe

I am 99% sure that George (skipper1945) created new versions of those road signs because of this however the obsolete table doesn't work on 127's


This cropped up some time ago on a route I forget which, in that case the 127's were deleted and replaced by the DLS version manually.

I think the 127 versions may have originated from a non DLS source as they do not appear to be on the DLS.

<kuid2:146087:27104:127> I seem to have acquired this some time in February 2019, not on the DLS, as it's from Trainz Italia and was originally a builtin not sure what that appeared with.

Editing the route config doesn't do anything as the list is from what's installed on the map not what to put on the map, if you follow. List is created from the map and is updated when you edit in Surveyor and save.

Best you can do is use a dummy asset of some kind and give it one of the missing 127 kuid's then bulk replace them, change the dummy to the next one and repeat.

You could use anything as a dummy asset, so long as it's obvious, OK thinking about it you can use mine Google drive link, instructions in description, it just a pink post. https://drive.google.com/open?id=1b-AB7MAaZwD8NKyYREjVLrF1uiW2FGum

To change the kuid open for edit in explorer, change kuid the import the folder, do not try comitting it as it will not work on another users kuid.

 

[Lataxe]

I am 99% sure that George (skipper1945) created new versions of those road signs because of this however the obsolete table doesn't work on 127's


This cropped up some time ago on a route I forget which, in that case the 127's were deleted and replaced by the DLS version manually.

I think the 127 versions may have originated from a non DLS source as they do not appear to be on the DLS.

<kuid2:146087:27104:127> I seem to have acquired this some time in February 2019, not on the DLS, as it's from Trainz Italia and was originally a builtin not sure what that appeared with.

Editing the route config doesn't do anything as the list is from what's installed on the map not what to put on the map, if you follow. List is created from the map and is updated when you edit in Surveyor and save.

Best you can do is use a dummy asset of some kind and give it one of the missing 127 kuid's then bulk replace them, change the dummy to the next one and repeat.

You could use anything as a dummy asset, so long as it's obvious, OK thinking about it you can use mine Google drive link, instructions in description, it just a pink post. https://drive.google.com/open?id=1b-AB7MAaZwD8NKyYREjVLrF1uiW2FGum

To change the kuid open for edit in explorer, change kuid the import the folder, do not try comitting it as it will not work on another users kuid.

Clam,

Thanks for that advice and facility. I'll have a go but probably tomorrow. I'm tired oot from a long day woodworking today.

Lataxe

 

[Robert704]

. . . The "non-TRS19" part of the Trainz Wiki is largely the work of Trainz users and not N3V. I am assuming that the TRS19 specific Wiki pages are mostly, if not all, the product of N3V staff. From personal experience, creating and maintaining even a single Wiki page involves a lot of time and effort that has to be taken from other activities. I am sure that if more people got involved then the gaps could be filled and the deficiencies removed. Personally, I would prefer that N3Vs small staff be employed fixing bugs and improving products than updating the Wiki.

My opinions only.

Much of my frustration comes from the lack of a clear delineation between old and new versions of the impacts of code within the core products that are not available for reading by us simple users. As an example, let me share some recent frustrations that took months to resolve. I will confine my example to a single project -- the upgrade of a geared steam engine that I built back in TS2010. Wiki contents need to state build scope - example, almost all wiki content pre T:ANE are obsolete relating to steam engines. A lot of the old content simply does not apply.

1. It took little effort to find that KIND Steam-engine was deemed obsolete. But obtaining the full impact of that without having vision of what is (was) taking place in the enginespec caused all kinds of issues/delays.
2. Establishing exactly what the Bogie direct-drive option changed regarding sound, vehicle speed, and anything else. (I still cannot determine why a locally built steam engine plays all sound attenuated relative to all built-in ones.)
3. What impact, if any does category-class have within the code? Does AS vs AT change behaviors, how?
4. Sometimes, I think N3V would just like to see steam engines go away. No support in Test Track, no or poor documentation for related containers, no examples for anything after 2.9. The single tutorial for tuning is good, but does not provide for sound issues or fuel differences scripting. (what about oil and wood burners -- all steam engines do not run on coal.)
5. Hard to use an inherited class when you do not have access to it (steam-engine, present one), not present in the .gs files. How about the Wiki (Not) = http://en.wikibooks.org/w/index.php?title=Trainz/Kinds/kind_steam-engine&action=edit&redlink=1
5. As far as getting involved, I am certain many, like me would be willing to help, but two things stop me from doing so: 1> Lack of access (probably read only) or documentation as to what the N3V content is actually doing - a lot of what I do is guesswork or trial and error. 2> The not so easy to follow path of copyrights and publication permissions. Some of the payware folks are way to aggressive in this area, and it is not worth the risk of offending them.

 

[pware]

Robert704.

Thanks for your considered and detailed response. You have pointed out some of the "devil-is-in-the-detail" deficiencies of the Wiki and this is the reason why I started creating and maintaining pages. I agree that most of the more "technical" pages lack info on which versions of Trainz they apply to but I would defend the presence of obsolete pages because they are still relevant to the versions that they were created for, which many Trainz users are still using. As you pointed out, lack of information on the latest versions is a frustration for creators.

Trial and error, and the discussions in these forums, have been my most called upon tools for the Wiki content that I have created and I still don't always get it right. Hence the need for constant revisions and updates even without new version releases and SPs from N3V. That is, I think, a large part of the problem - keeping up with the changes. It would be great if N3V had the resources to fund a dedicated technical documentation department but as they don't, that task falls onto Trainz users, such as yourself.

Stay safe in these troubles times.

Peter

 

[Robert704]

Thank you Peter for your patience with my rant, born of frustration.

I was in no way suggesting, or implying, that legacy materials should be removed or archived. I think that my intent was to advocate for tags in Wiki additions that indicate the range for applicable builds. Also, now with so many product variations, some information about product compatability.

Trainz is at the intersection of many disciplines, some few are professional, most persue a hobby, and many are retired professionals, like me. Further, trainz has a split operational aspect. There is a game, with challenges, objectives and players, and then there are those like me that care nothing about game play, but are fully invested in simulation. I am basically a route builder, but only one route and one session. I refer to it as a virtual railroad because the goal is to acheive operations based on a real life, historical railroad -- mile for mile and hour for hour during a typical 16 hour operating day.. Same cities, industries and stations with accurate reproductions of operating equipment, methods and procedures. Accordingly, much of the content must be created locally, or perhaps cloned and modified from dowloaded or third party created assets. The lack of documentation sometimes makes this effort almost impossible.