As we know passenger rails numbers have been increasing year after year and the highest since the 1940's With 1.6 billion passengers a year and it raises an interesting point. This has been especially marked since the railways were returned to private ownerhip but misses the obvious - why? There are more cars than ever yet rail is a popular way of travelling. There is always a discussion of course between whether private or State is to be the way but the fact remains that since the return numbers have been phenomenal. Why do you think this is so and do the companies have something to do with this although they do seem to take a bit of a back seat on this issue.
Constantly increasing passengers wonder know why and credits?
- Thread starter rjhowie
- Start date
Since I'm from Latvia I have no idea, but also want to know. For example, Cardiff Valleys have seen major passenger growth with almost no new trains or stations since privatization. How can the same, old trains attract more passengers than before?
EDIT: much much more passengers
EDIT: much much more passengers
With cars becoming more expensive and parking that thing in a big city getting harder (and more expensive), taking the train into the big city is getting more interesting.
Another thing that might be considered is jobs being more unstable; a car is an investment (especially for young people) while you can just stop taking the train if you loose your job.
Another thing that might be considered is jobs being more unstable; a car is an investment (especially for young people) while you can just stop taking the train if you loose your job.
Hi rjhowie and everybody
Rj there are two reasons I believe for the rapid rise in rail passenger numbers over the last decade. First of all it is the ever increasing rise in the number of cars using the UK roads within our overcrowded island’s that has made rail transport so attractive especially when it comes as an alternative to Britain’s congested motorways.
One contributor to this thread advised that he could not understand why passenger numbers had increased to such an extent on the Cardiff valleys lines. Well you only have to look at the M4 motorway through South Wales on any working day and especially the section between Newport and Cardiff to realise why people are now taking the train. That section of the motorway is a constant “stop-go crawl ” between the hours of seven in the morning until at least 7 o’clock in the evening. The 3 miles either side of the Brynglas tunnels are very much more stop than go throughout the working hours and can be that way even at weekends if any large sporting events are taking place in Cardiff.
Other motorways in Britain suffer very much as the above. Sections of the M5 and M6 around Birmingham are similar to Newport along with the motorways around and into Manchester and Liverpool. There is of course Britain’s biggest car park known as the M25 around London along with all the congestion on the motorways and A roads that lead onto it. Driving in Britain can be a frustrating, nerve shredding experience and most importantly it can be very much in the lap of the gods what time you are actually going to arrive at your destination if you have any distance to go.
The second reason why rail travel has become so popular is the fact that you can work on a train. For business passengers on longer journeys it can become your temporary office. You can compile notes, take and receive telephone calls all for use at meetings you may be going to. On return journeys make up reports from those meetings which can be in the office even before you arrive. For daily commuters on short journeys to their offices or workplaces they can make phone calls to have things prearranged for their arrival. Any regular rail passenger will witness all the above on most peak time rail journeys in Britain on a daily basis, and if you are like me you will very much be joining in the above work related activities.
Many organisations in Britain now instruct employees who have to travel as part of their working duties to use the railways as it increases their productivity and therefore the company’s profitability, it is as simple as that. I have seen our American friends on the forum comment that you have to get from the station to your final destination and therefore you still need a car. To that I would say, there are such things as abundant taxis and buses at almost all railway stations and with a little planning the final short distance can be easily accomplished with perhaps even a short walk which you see many doing. You then arrive fresher and better prepared for whatever the day is going to throw at you. Better still, on the return journey you can then have a pint while traveling having successfully rail journeyed your way through another working day (LOL)
On a personal note, rjhowie it is great to see you still posting on the forum as Carol (my wife) and me remember the wonderful comments you made when I said I was retiring earlier in the year. While that had to be cancelled at that time due to recruitment problems, it is now set for September 28 and I have now started to hand over the reins to those who will take over from me. I will be celebrating my seventieth birthday at Christmas and looking back at life it has been a long journey but in all honesty I do not think I would wish to change a thing if I had the chance to do it all over again.
Bill
Rj there are two reasons I believe for the rapid rise in rail passenger numbers over the last decade. First of all it is the ever increasing rise in the number of cars using the UK roads within our overcrowded island’s that has made rail transport so attractive especially when it comes as an alternative to Britain’s congested motorways.
One contributor to this thread advised that he could not understand why passenger numbers had increased to such an extent on the Cardiff valleys lines. Well you only have to look at the M4 motorway through South Wales on any working day and especially the section between Newport and Cardiff to realise why people are now taking the train. That section of the motorway is a constant “stop-go crawl ” between the hours of seven in the morning until at least 7 o’clock in the evening. The 3 miles either side of the Brynglas tunnels are very much more stop than go throughout the working hours and can be that way even at weekends if any large sporting events are taking place in Cardiff.
Other motorways in Britain suffer very much as the above. Sections of the M5 and M6 around Birmingham are similar to Newport along with the motorways around and into Manchester and Liverpool. There is of course Britain’s biggest car park known as the M25 around London along with all the congestion on the motorways and A roads that lead onto it. Driving in Britain can be a frustrating, nerve shredding experience and most importantly it can be very much in the lap of the gods what time you are actually going to arrive at your destination if you have any distance to go.
The second reason why rail travel has become so popular is the fact that you can work on a train. For business passengers on longer journeys it can become your temporary office. You can compile notes, take and receive telephone calls all for use at meetings you may be going to. On return journeys make up reports from those meetings which can be in the office even before you arrive. For daily commuters on short journeys to their offices or workplaces they can make phone calls to have things prearranged for their arrival. Any regular rail passenger will witness all the above on most peak time rail journeys in Britain on a daily basis, and if you are like me you will very much be joining in the above work related activities.
Many organisations in Britain now instruct employees who have to travel as part of their working duties to use the railways as it increases their productivity and therefore the company’s profitability, it is as simple as that. I have seen our American friends on the forum comment that you have to get from the station to your final destination and therefore you still need a car. To that I would say, there are such things as abundant taxis and buses at almost all railway stations and with a little planning the final short distance can be easily accomplished with perhaps even a short walk which you see many doing. You then arrive fresher and better prepared for whatever the day is going to throw at you. Better still, on the return journey you can then have a pint while traveling having successfully rail journeyed your way through another working day (LOL)
On a personal note, rjhowie it is great to see you still posting on the forum as Carol (my wife) and me remember the wonderful comments you made when I said I was retiring earlier in the year. While that had to be cancelled at that time due to recruitment problems, it is now set for September 28 and I have now started to hand over the reins to those who will take over from me. I will be celebrating my seventieth birthday at Christmas and looking back at life it has been a long journey but in all honesty I do not think I would wish to change a thing if I had the chance to do it all over again.
Bill
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Well wholbr, I can but only in thinking on what you say there is nothing to disagree with. You certainly summed it up very well indeed.
On the personal side, I was glad that i was some constructive help to you and in turn your good lady so thanks for your kind compliments. Having had a full life in education, much voluntary and youth work along with some pastoral input I can now pick and choose what I do with my time. Oh, it too a bit of adaption and my time is controlled by me now and not other circumstances and folk! Regards to you and Carol ( you tell her or you are in trouble!)and I have taken note of the 28th of September for good wishes.
On the personal side, I was glad that i was some constructive help to you and in turn your good lady so thanks for your kind compliments. Having had a full life in education, much voluntary and youth work along with some pastoral input I can now pick and choose what I do with my time. Oh, it too a bit of adaption and my time is controlled by me now and not other circumstances and folk! Regards to you and Carol ( you tell her or you are in trouble!)and I have taken note of the 28th of September for good wishes.
Hi RJ and everybody.
Rj, in my previous posting I missed commenting on your request that forum members give their views on whether they thought that the train operating franchise companies where doing a good job and therefore in any way responsible the dramatic increase in rail passenger numbers.
With regards to the above and as someone who uses the British rail network extensively, I would break that down into two parts. The first part would be punctuality and in that respect the operating companies have made big strides although it is still far from perfect. That said, I am all too aware that transport in any form always has its problems. There is always the unexpected in the form of weather, mechanical breakdown, system breakdown or human failure which can be as simple as someone arriving late for work. The foregoing all goes into the great mix of public transport whether that is road, rail or air. However, overall I would say that I am reasonably satisfied with the progress made on punctuality even though recent surveys are still condemning heavily the rail operating companies in this field.
The second part would be in the area of service and passenger comfort. It would seem that the train operating companies make good profits from the franchises they have. That said, they always seem to be one step behind the increase in passenger traffic. The results of that are overcrowded trains with passengers who have often paid a high price for their tickets not being able to get seats on often long journeys. I have often been subject to the situation myself and find that very unsatisfactory. The operating companies advised that you book your tickets in advance but that relies on the fact that you know what time you will be travelling at especially on any return journey.
As example of the above, I have been up to Stafford today to be an adviser to a ccompany involved in an employee disciplinary hearing. It was impossible for me this morning to know what time the hearing would conclude and therefore what time I will be boarding a train for Somerset. Result was that was I left Stafford in the rush hour and was unable to get a seat on the train I am now on until it was almost at Birmingham. Many would find that a very unsatisfactory situation (and quite rightly so) but fortunately I am now in the buffet car with a drink, my tablet computer and Bluetooth keyboard and therefore I am able to post this on the trainz forum. With the wife picking me up at Taunton station at 10:20 PM, therefore… Life is not so bad.
Rj thanks for your comments on my retirement, the one thing I will not miss is in the part of my job such as I have been doing today. It has never sat easily with me to sit in disciplinary hearings and watch people be dismissed. For employees with families to support it can be worse than any court fine whatever the amount. To that end it is the only part of my working life that I have not enjoyed. But as I stated in my previous posting, on retirement and looking back I do not think there is anything in my life I would wish to change if I was given a chance to live it all over again
Got to sign off now, train arriving into Taunton
Bill
Rj, in my previous posting I missed commenting on your request that forum members give their views on whether they thought that the train operating franchise companies where doing a good job and therefore in any way responsible the dramatic increase in rail passenger numbers.
With regards to the above and as someone who uses the British rail network extensively, I would break that down into two parts. The first part would be punctuality and in that respect the operating companies have made big strides although it is still far from perfect. That said, I am all too aware that transport in any form always has its problems. There is always the unexpected in the form of weather, mechanical breakdown, system breakdown or human failure which can be as simple as someone arriving late for work. The foregoing all goes into the great mix of public transport whether that is road, rail or air. However, overall I would say that I am reasonably satisfied with the progress made on punctuality even though recent surveys are still condemning heavily the rail operating companies in this field.
The second part would be in the area of service and passenger comfort. It would seem that the train operating companies make good profits from the franchises they have. That said, they always seem to be one step behind the increase in passenger traffic. The results of that are overcrowded trains with passengers who have often paid a high price for their tickets not being able to get seats on often long journeys. I have often been subject to the situation myself and find that very unsatisfactory. The operating companies advised that you book your tickets in advance but that relies on the fact that you know what time you will be travelling at especially on any return journey.
As example of the above, I have been up to Stafford today to be an adviser to a ccompany involved in an employee disciplinary hearing. It was impossible for me this morning to know what time the hearing would conclude and therefore what time I will be boarding a train for Somerset. Result was that was I left Stafford in the rush hour and was unable to get a seat on the train I am now on until it was almost at Birmingham. Many would find that a very unsatisfactory situation (and quite rightly so) but fortunately I am now in the buffet car with a drink, my tablet computer and Bluetooth keyboard and therefore I am able to post this on the trainz forum. With the wife picking me up at Taunton station at 10:20 PM, therefore… Life is not so bad.
Rj thanks for your comments on my retirement, the one thing I will not miss is in the part of my job such as I have been doing today. It has never sat easily with me to sit in disciplinary hearings and watch people be dismissed. For employees with families to support it can be worse than any court fine whatever the amount. To that end it is the only part of my working life that I have not enjoyed. But as I stated in my previous posting, on retirement and looking back I do not think there is anything in my life I would wish to change if I was given a chance to live it all over again
Got to sign off now, train arriving into Taunton
Bill
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Hi stovepipe and everybody.
Well, with that sort of increase their certainly would be overcrowding on the trains. It would be like old India with people riding on the carriage roofs as you used to see them in the films around the time of the British Raj. I suppose it is rather different today with India becoming a great industrial power.
However, we are not far from that situation at some of our main terminal stations here in Britain today. I do not know if older forum members remember the 1960s film of Japanese mainline stations where the stations staff would push passengers into the carriages, squeezing them up together from the platform so that the doors would be able to close. Well, at Bristol Temple Meads station in the rush hour we do not have the staff actually pushing people into the trains, but you do see trains so crowded that the doors are not able to close because someone's backside is still sticking out of the carriage.
Who would have ever have thought in the 1970s and 80s that Britain's railways would again raise themselves to such a level that the above spectacle would be seen (LOL)
Bill
Well, with that sort of increase their certainly would be overcrowding on the trains. It would be like old India with people riding on the carriage roofs as you used to see them in the films around the time of the British Raj. I suppose it is rather different today with India becoming a great industrial power.
However, we are not far from that situation at some of our main terminal stations here in Britain today. I do not know if older forum members remember the 1960s film of Japanese mainline stations where the stations staff would push passengers into the carriages, squeezing them up together from the platform so that the doors would be able to close. Well, at Bristol Temple Meads station in the rush hour we do not have the staff actually pushing people into the trains, but you do see trains so crowded that the doors are not able to close because someone's backside is still sticking out of the carriage.
Who would have ever have thought in the 1970s and 80s that Britain's railways would again raise themselves to such a level that the above spectacle would be seen (LOL)
Bill
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Well stovepipe, I wonder how long we can keep coping with such vastly increasing population numbers as we now beat the Netherlands. However the increasing rail use is not controversial and that exceptionally pleases me. By the way wholbr, I can sympathise with your kind of mental sighing having to deal with people in difficult situations. Even for a man from gritty Glasgow sending people to jail was never easy. However being a Boys' Brigade man, I fell back on self-discipline!
Hi everybody.
Yes uracco, last weekend was very bad on the roads with the M5 holiday traffic on Saturday tailing back 15 miles southbound and 18 miles northbound at the interchange with the M4 north of Bristol at one stage. Sunday was even worse with an eight car pileup on the northbound M5 here in Somerset resulting in a traffic tailback of over 30 miles from late Sunday morning until the early evening. I would think that many of those caught up in those jams may well decide to take the train next time they have any distance to travel and there we see the reason why the rail passenger numbers continue to grow.
There has been much discussion over the last few days in the media regarding the increase in rail fares and whether that would cause people to switch back to using their cars for commuting and distance journeys. In that regard, I would agree that rail fares are very high in the UK but several years of above inflation ticket price increases have not dampened the demand for rail travel.
I believe there are two reasons for the above with the first being that many rail passengers have their tickets paid for by their employers who find it more economical for their staff to travel by rail as they can work while they are on the train. The second reason would be, where someone has a daily working commute of 10 to 15 miles each way then the rail fare can still be cheaper than travelling by car and much quicker especially when all costs and time are down to themselves.
As well as the above, the extensive use of rail cards means that students, pensioners and families can get much reduced fares on top of advance pre-booking of travel dates which in itself can greatly reduce the standard travel charge. Therefore I feel that passenger numbers will continue to climb provided the train operating companies expand services sufficiently to accommodate the increase so that passengers can travel in reasonable comfort and good punctuality.
On a social note, rjhowie the “boys Brigade” I can well remember them as I was a “St John ambulance cadet” and they would meet on the same evening as us at our local Saint Barnabas Church Hall. That was in the days when the church used to be involved in everything on the council estate where I was brought up.
Bill
Yes uracco, last weekend was very bad on the roads with the M5 holiday traffic on Saturday tailing back 15 miles southbound and 18 miles northbound at the interchange with the M4 north of Bristol at one stage. Sunday was even worse with an eight car pileup on the northbound M5 here in Somerset resulting in a traffic tailback of over 30 miles from late Sunday morning until the early evening. I would think that many of those caught up in those jams may well decide to take the train next time they have any distance to travel and there we see the reason why the rail passenger numbers continue to grow.
There has been much discussion over the last few days in the media regarding the increase in rail fares and whether that would cause people to switch back to using their cars for commuting and distance journeys. In that regard, I would agree that rail fares are very high in the UK but several years of above inflation ticket price increases have not dampened the demand for rail travel.
I believe there are two reasons for the above with the first being that many rail passengers have their tickets paid for by their employers who find it more economical for their staff to travel by rail as they can work while they are on the train. The second reason would be, where someone has a daily working commute of 10 to 15 miles each way then the rail fare can still be cheaper than travelling by car and much quicker especially when all costs and time are down to themselves.
As well as the above, the extensive use of rail cards means that students, pensioners and families can get much reduced fares on top of advance pre-booking of travel dates which in itself can greatly reduce the standard travel charge. Therefore I feel that passenger numbers will continue to climb provided the train operating companies expand services sufficiently to accommodate the increase so that passengers can travel in reasonable comfort and good punctuality.
On a social note, rjhowie the “boys Brigade” I can well remember them as I was a “St John ambulance cadet” and they would meet on the same evening as us at our local Saint Barnabas Church Hall. That was in the days when the church used to be involved in everything on the council estate where I was brought up.
Bill
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Just an interesting wee aside to that last comment on The Boys' Brigade. I was captain of a Company here in Glasgow with 70 teenagers at it's peak. We did just about every activity there was including night hikes, air rifle shooting, etc. Had a fife and drum band and regular summer camps in Ulster for years. Although 117 years old we also had a very modern attitude along with much tradition, It was a very challenging area and i was very involved with that 11-17 age group their families, visiting, etc. My pastoral side stretched to funerals and dedications. Youths travelled past other BB units to get to us so must have been doing something special! There is another BB man on Trainz and proudly and rightly portrays the BB crest in his threads. This world-wide movement started in Glasgow so do forgive mme digressing from this centre of the universe!
Bobby
Bobby
Hi rjhowie and everybody.
Apologies rj for not replying earlier to your posting but I would never have believed that preparing for retirement could make you so busy.
First of all I see that the cost of the new high-speed line between London and Birmingham and then onto Manchester and Leeds has now risen to eighty billion. I would think that even the most ardent rail supporter could not believe that the foregoing was such an “eye watering figure” as to beger disbelief. As one of the national newspapers pointed out this morning (Monday) that every person in the UK will have to contribute £3000 over the period of their lifetime if this one project is to come about.
Britain is a set of comparatively small but highly populated islands and you therefore have to wonder whether we really need trains running at 250 mph and above within these geographical confines. Even with speeds of the foregoing magnitude the journey time between London and Birmingham will only decreased by 20 minutes on present journey schedules. Therefore and before the first rail is laid, this must be the right time for a complete reappraisal of the project.
A member of the parliamentary transport committee was interviewed on television yesterday morning on the HS2 project and the ever escalating costs. He advised that a majority of the transport committee were now in favour of cancellation but with the investment being diverted to overall improvement of the existing services and the reopening of large numbers of branch lines closed in the Beeching era. The foregoing would be I believe a better way forward as the benefits would be felt by the whole country, as it is the whole population that will be contributing to any major rail upgrade.
Again, a social note, rjowie it was great to hear of your pastoral involvement in your earlier years. As I have advised in an earlier posting, I was raised on a council estate in Bristol before leaving school at fifteen years of age to start my working life. The best recollections of my childhood were of the involvement of the church in virtually everything we did as kids. Our local church (Saint Barnabas) was open to everyone right through the week especially on an evening with its three church halls and the main building being lit up like the Crystal Palace.
Me and my friends went there for Cubs, St John ambulance cadets and Scouts where we met along with the boys Brigade, guides and many other adult groups. The church also arranged outings and film shows for us kids throughout summer and winter and it was always at the forefront of that great community spirit of the estate.
I do not know how the church came to lose that prominent position they held in the Britain throughout the 19 forties and fifties rj, but when they did the whole country lost something that was irreplaceable in everyone’s lives I believe.
Bill
Apologies rj for not replying earlier to your posting but I would never have believed that preparing for retirement could make you so busy.
First of all I see that the cost of the new high-speed line between London and Birmingham and then onto Manchester and Leeds has now risen to eighty billion. I would think that even the most ardent rail supporter could not believe that the foregoing was such an “eye watering figure” as to beger disbelief. As one of the national newspapers pointed out this morning (Monday) that every person in the UK will have to contribute £3000 over the period of their lifetime if this one project is to come about.
Britain is a set of comparatively small but highly populated islands and you therefore have to wonder whether we really need trains running at 250 mph and above within these geographical confines. Even with speeds of the foregoing magnitude the journey time between London and Birmingham will only decreased by 20 minutes on present journey schedules. Therefore and before the first rail is laid, this must be the right time for a complete reappraisal of the project.
A member of the parliamentary transport committee was interviewed on television yesterday morning on the HS2 project and the ever escalating costs. He advised that a majority of the transport committee were now in favour of cancellation but with the investment being diverted to overall improvement of the existing services and the reopening of large numbers of branch lines closed in the Beeching era. The foregoing would be I believe a better way forward as the benefits would be felt by the whole country, as it is the whole population that will be contributing to any major rail upgrade.
Again, a social note, rjowie it was great to hear of your pastoral involvement in your earlier years. As I have advised in an earlier posting, I was raised on a council estate in Bristol before leaving school at fifteen years of age to start my working life. The best recollections of my childhood were of the involvement of the church in virtually everything we did as kids. Our local church (Saint Barnabas) was open to everyone right through the week especially on an evening with its three church halls and the main building being lit up like the Crystal Palace.
Me and my friends went there for Cubs, St John ambulance cadets and Scouts where we met along with the boys Brigade, guides and many other adult groups. The church also arranged outings and film shows for us kids throughout summer and winter and it was always at the forefront of that great community spirit of the estate.
I do not know how the church came to lose that prominent position they held in the Britain throughout the 19 forties and fifties rj, but when they did the whole country lost something that was irreplaceable in everyone’s lives I believe.
Bill
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