Commodore vanderbilt consist
- Thread starter NTSEFAN
- Start date
Ok.. I did some research and only came up with the stranded NYC 1943
http://www.model160.com/n-scale-res...senger-consist-1943-nyc-20th-century-limited/
hauntedclipp
copper-crowned
As far as I know, New York Central's "Commodore Vanderbilt" was only the name of this Hudson locomotive:
In that case, the consist is the locomotive with the tender coupled immediately behind the locomotive's cab end.
In that case, the consist is the locomotive with the tender coupled immediately behind the locomotive's cab end.
A little more infoAs far as I know, New York Central's "Commodore Vanderbilt" was only the name of this Hudson locomotive:
In that case, the consist is the locomotive with the tender coupled immediately behind the locomotive's cab end.
NYC 2873, an L-2c 4-8-2 "Mohawk" was streamlined to mimic NYC 5344 -- the Commodore Vanderbilt -- which only a few months earlier was America's first streamlined steam locomotive. The engine was converted to burn oil for the national tour of the Rexall Train. (Coal was scarce out west.)
Lettering in the side of the loco was in blue. Rexall didn't add orange to their logo palette until years later.
hauntedclipp
copper-crowned
But the Rexall Train really has nothing to do with the Commodore Vanderbilt besides the similarities in streamlined casings.A little more info
NYC 2873, an L-2c 4-8-2 "Mohawk" was streamlined to mimic NYC 5344 -- the Commodore Vanderbilt -- which only a few months earlier was America's first streamlined steam locomotive. The engine was converted to burn oil for the national tour of the Rexall Train. (Coal was scarce out west.)
Lettering in the side of the loco was in blue. Rexall didn't add orange to their logo palette until years later.
NTSEFAN asked about the Commodore by name.
hauntedclipp
copper-crowned
And the point I was making is that I'm not aware of any train from New York Central that bears that name. The locomotive named Commodore Vanderbilt was often used to haul the 20th Century Limited before the introduction of the more well-known streamlined form of the train, and xcrossi has kindly provided a link to a page with the consist of that train, but judging from your response, it seems that it's not what you're looking for.
If you could post a link to anyplace that has any information of this Commodore Vanderbilt train, then we could be of better assistance.
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Alright, well I am not sure as to what time period you are looking for (1950's, 1960's, or late 1940's post WW2), but here is a consist for both the Advance and regular Commodore Vanderbilt circa 1948.
Advance Commodore Vanderbilt
-Locomotive (what ever that may be, potentially a Hudson, Niagara or a pair of E-Units)
-Lounge Sleeper (6 Double Bedroom, Buffet Type)
-10 Section, Drawing Room, 2 Compartment (10-1-2)through sleeper (WP-D&RGW-CB&Q sleeper, off of Exposition Flyer)
-6 Compartment, 3 Drawing Room (6-3) Sleeper
-13 Double Bedroom Sleeper
-18 Roomette Sleeper
-10 Section, 2 Double Bedroom, 1 Compartment (10-2-1) Sleeper
-8 Section, Drawing Room, 2 Compartment (8-1-2) Sleeper
-Dining Car
(Coach is added for Westbound run only)
Commodore Vanderbilt
-Locomotive (what ever that may be, potentially a Hudson, Niagara or a pair of E-Units)
-Lounge Sleeper (6 Double Bedroom, Buffet Type)
-4 Compartment, 4 Double Bedroom, 2 Drawing Room (4-4-2) Sleeper (from SP-Rock Island Train 4)
-4 Compartment, 4 Double Bedroom, 2 Drawing Room (4-4-2) Sleeper (Two of them)
-13 Double Bedroom Sleeper (Three of them)
-10 Roomette, 5 Double Bedroom (10-5) Sleeper
-18 Roomette Sleeper (Two of them)
-6 Compartment, 3 Drawing Room (6-3) Sleeper
-14 Section Sleeper
-Dining Car
-Observation Lounge Sleeper (4 Double Bedroom, Buffet Type)
I hope this helps! Or you could go here as well: http://www.streamlinerschedules.com/concourse/track3/commvandblt194805.html
Advance Commodore Vanderbilt
-Locomotive (what ever that may be, potentially a Hudson, Niagara or a pair of E-Units)
-Lounge Sleeper (6 Double Bedroom, Buffet Type)
-10 Section, Drawing Room, 2 Compartment (10-1-2)through sleeper (WP-D&RGW-CB&Q sleeper, off of Exposition Flyer)
-6 Compartment, 3 Drawing Room (6-3) Sleeper
-13 Double Bedroom Sleeper
-18 Roomette Sleeper
-10 Section, 2 Double Bedroom, 1 Compartment (10-2-1) Sleeper
-8 Section, Drawing Room, 2 Compartment (8-1-2) Sleeper
-Dining Car
(Coach is added for Westbound run only)
Commodore Vanderbilt
-Locomotive (what ever that may be, potentially a Hudson, Niagara or a pair of E-Units)
-Lounge Sleeper (6 Double Bedroom, Buffet Type)
-4 Compartment, 4 Double Bedroom, 2 Drawing Room (4-4-2) Sleeper (from SP-Rock Island Train 4)
-4 Compartment, 4 Double Bedroom, 2 Drawing Room (4-4-2) Sleeper (Two of them)
-13 Double Bedroom Sleeper (Three of them)
-10 Roomette, 5 Double Bedroom (10-5) Sleeper
-18 Roomette Sleeper (Two of them)
-6 Compartment, 3 Drawing Room (6-3) Sleeper
-14 Section Sleeper
-Dining Car
-Observation Lounge Sleeper (4 Double Bedroom, Buffet Type)
I hope this helps! Or you could go here as well: http://www.streamlinerschedules.com/concourse/track3/commvandblt194805.html
jacksonbarno
Alco Spoken Here
The Commodore Vanderbilt was also an an extra-fare all-Pullman passenger train that was put into service in 1937 to compete with PRR's General. It was originally heavyweight, but by 1939, was almost completely streamlined with excess cars from the NYC's first and second car orders. This rendition of the train still carried heavyweights. In 1941, the NYC created the Advance Commodore Vanderbilt, which much like PRR's Advance General, was a second section of the train that ran ahead. The Advanced CV was considered all-Pullman, but it carried one coach westbound. In 1948, after the 20th Century was upgraded, the Commodore was also upgraded. After 1948, it carried the twin diners from the pre war 20th Century, the pre war lounges from the 20th Century, a mix of new and pre-war lightweight sleepers, a baggage dorm, and one of the four pre war RPOs that the 20th Century carried when that train did not have a second section. It also carried two of the NYC's pre war Island series observation cars that were modernized after the war. Both the Commodore Vanderbilt and the Advance CV carried a through 4-4-2 for the SP/RI Golden state and the Commodore Vanderbilt carried a through sleeper for the California Zephyr. The Advanced CV was combined with the Pacemaker in 1951, and the consist consisted of a baggage dorm, a through 4-4-2 for the Golden State, behind the through sleeper, there would be lightweight sleepers until the Budd twin diner set. The Budd twin diner set back to the observation consisted of lightweight Budd coaches and the Pacemaker's lightweight Budd observation. The first half of this train would be considered the ACV and the rear half would be considered the Pacemaker. The ACV and the Pacemaker would be timetabled separately, and the coaches and sleepers were never mixed. In 1956, the ACV/Pacemaker and the Commodore Vanderbilt were combined, and the ACV and Pacemaker names disappeared. The CV lost its observation cars as a result of the combination. In 1957, the Commodore Vanderbilt was combined with the 20th Century and the CV name disappeared from the timetables.
For the CV, the timetable lists thirteen cars around 1948. My guess would be:
Pre war Lightweight RPO
Baggage Dorm
Through SP/RI Golden State 4-4-2 OR CZ Through 10-6
NYC Pre War Lightweight lounge
10-6
21 Roomette (PS)
21 Roomette (PS)
NYC Pre war Lightweight diner
NYC Pre war Lightweight diner
12-Double Bedroom
4-4-2
4-4-2
Pre War modernized 4-1 Observation
Around 1948 for the ACV I would guess around the same:
Heavyweight RPO
Baggage Dorm
SP/RI Golden State 4-4-2
6-1 Lounge (PS)
21 Roomette (Budd)
21-Roomette (Budd)
Lightweight Diner
12-DB
12-DB
4-4-2
4-4-2
For the ACV Westbound, it would be the same, just tack a PS or Budd lightweight coach onto the end.
For motive power, I would guess E7s, Niagaras, PAs, or Passenger FMs until about 1951, after that, E7s or E8s for sure.
For the CV, the timetable lists thirteen cars around 1948. My guess would be:
Pre war Lightweight RPO
Baggage Dorm
Through SP/RI Golden State 4-4-2 OR CZ Through 10-6
NYC Pre War Lightweight lounge
10-6
21 Roomette (PS)
21 Roomette (PS)
NYC Pre war Lightweight diner
NYC Pre war Lightweight diner
12-Double Bedroom
4-4-2
4-4-2
Pre War modernized 4-1 Observation
Around 1948 for the ACV I would guess around the same:
Heavyweight RPO
Baggage Dorm
SP/RI Golden State 4-4-2
6-1 Lounge (PS)
21 Roomette (Budd)
21-Roomette (Budd)
Lightweight Diner
12-DB
12-DB
4-4-2
4-4-2
For the ACV Westbound, it would be the same, just tack a PS or Budd lightweight coach onto the end.
For motive power, I would guess E7s, Niagaras, PAs, or Passenger FMs until about 1951, after that, E7s or E8s for sure.
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hauntedclipp
copper-crowned
Interesting! In all my internet searches, the only results I had ever gotten for the NYC's Commodore Vanderbilt was the Hudson locomotive. I'm guessing this train's fame was eclipsed by the Century, especially after they were combined?
Sounds like a fun mix of streamlined and heavyweight equipment.
Good luck with it, NTSEFAN!
Sounds like a fun mix of streamlined and heavyweight equipment.
Good luck with it, NTSEFAN!
I know. It was the name of the streamlined loco that pulled the 20th century limited, and the link xcrossi provided for me actually showed me a consist of the 1943 20th century limited, so yes, you are correct. When you read the next few responses on this post, you'll see you've actually provided me assistance.
It doesn't really matter, although I was likely thinking late 1940s when the cars from the 1938 20th century limited were scattered and reassigned to other trains after the 1948 re-equipping of the century after WW2. Or maybe all of them. And yes, it did help and I will check out the link soon enough.
Yes, but it's the streamlined loco he made.
Exactlly, which is why I want to make the train myself with the cars made by Jeff Barr (Magicland) already in New York Central and maybe repaint some cars that are not available from others that already exist.
WOW! Like wilh, I guess you've done your research and homework as well jacksonbarno. The both of you have provided good information for me about this train, and I say thank you.
I know. I've been looking for information about it for a while, and I first heard about it from the lionel model back from 2006, and I heard about the steamer being named as such, but I never heard of a streamlined train named as such. I know it is a fun mix and I will have good luck with working on it.
I've been looking for consist listing for this train and the cars that were used as well, but closest sources I got were Thoroughbreds by Al Staufer and New York central's lightweight passenger cars, trains and travel by Geoffrey H. Doughty.
I would like to say in conclusion, thank you all for your help everybody!
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From what I can tell, you based it on this.
Eastbound train #26—20th Century Limited, on September 6, 1943; departing Chicago, Illinois.[SUP][12][/SUP][SUP][13][/SUP]
Am I correct?
Eastbound train #26—20th Century Limited, on September 6, 1943; departing Chicago, Illinois.[SUP][12][/SUP][SUP][13][/SUP]
- Class J-3a (4-6-4 Husdon) steam locomotive: NYC 5450;
- Class MB Baggage-mail car: NYC #5017;
- Class DDL Dormitory-buffet-lounge car: CENTURY CLUB;
- Class PS Sleeper (10-roomettes 5-double bedroom): CASCADE WONDER;
- Class PS Sleeper (17-roomette): CITY OF CLEVELAND;
- Class PS Sleeper (17-roomette): CITY OF DAYTON;
- Class PS Sleeper (10-roomette 5-double bedroom): CASCADE GLORY;
- Class PS Sleeper (10-roomette 5-double bedroom): CASCADE WHIRL;
- Class PS Sleeper (4-Double Bedroom 4-compartment 2-drawing room): IMPERIAL FOUNTAIN;
- Class DA Dining car: NYC 680;
- Class DA Dining car: NYC 684;
- Class PS Sleeper (4-double bedroom 4 compartment 2-drawing room); IMPERIAL CITY;
- Class PS Sleeper (4-double bedroom 4 compartment 2-drawing room); IMPERIAL DOME;
- Class PS Sleeper (13-double bedroom): ONONDAGA COUNTY;
- Class PS Sleeper (13-double bedroom): HAMPDEN COUNTY;
- Class PS Sleeper (13-double bedroom): MONTGOMERY COUNTY;
- Class PS Sleeper (13-double bedroom): ASHTABULA COUNTY;
- Class PSO Sleeper-Buffet-Lounge-Observation (2-double bedrooms; 1-compartment; 1-drawing room): MAUMEE RIVER.
Am I correct?
jacksonbarno
Alco Spoken Here
I did some repainting and when I applied some two-tone grey, your cars look pretty good as a CV consist.
I found a picture of the CV departing Englewood. The heavyweights in the consist suggest that the train wasn't completely streamlined yet, which makes sense. With the cars arriving from Pullman starting at the beginning of 1948, the 20th Century was the first to be upgraded. Then the other important trains: The Pacemaker, New England States, Southwestern Limited, James Whitcomb Riley, Wolverine, ACV, and Commodore Vanderbilt. The ACV and Commodore were generally made up of exclusively smoothside PS built cars, while the others were generally made up of Budd built cars.
I found a picture of the CV departing Englewood. The heavyweights in the consist suggest that the train wasn't completely streamlined yet, which makes sense. With the cars arriving from Pullman starting at the beginning of 1948, the 20th Century was the first to be upgraded. Then the other important trains: The Pacemaker, New England States, Southwestern Limited, James Whitcomb Riley, Wolverine, ACV, and Commodore Vanderbilt. The ACV and Commodore were generally made up of exclusively smoothside PS built cars, while the others were generally made up of Budd built cars.
If that question is directed at me, yes, I believe that is correct, but it's been awhile since I created them, so my memory could be failing me.
Mike