commissions prices

With out starting a new thread... would like to ask if anyone would like to perhaps team up on some PRR Steam commissions ? Although some heavy B&O steam would be great to ?

My list in the order I would like:D

I-1
6970087869_84b065fc4f_b.jpg

6824685138_f5ecbd8c38_b.jpg


C-1
PRR_C1_6560.jpg


B-6
prr5010.jpg


Make your request here or PM me. Or share any information you might have on what being made.

Matt

PS is there a way to change the title of the tread ?
 
My PRR Q2 will have an N5 and N5c caboose along with it. So come May or so, i'll have those cabooses done. As for the 2-10-0 and 0-8-0, I had all intensions to make them this year, but commission work comes first.
 
Steve I had forgotten your plans at K&L with the Q2 , and as always will be waiting for it's completion. But the same goes for the N&W 4-8-4 and the WM 2-8-0. Your work speaks for itself . Sent you a PM

Matt
 
i will pitch in on an EM-1 or something, since you said heavy b&o that's the first thing that popped into my head.
 
there's a load of B&O, NYC, I would like to see. But As stated before, I bleed PRR red .. So as to these, I would love to help get some of those done, my intent is to get my wish for the PRR engines and cars built first . Then work my way down.? The group working on the S1 has my interest . I haven't gotten a response yet

None of this is going to happen over night. But the list keep growing

Matt
 
... I'm asking what anyone would consider a fair price for commissions.

Other people's opinions of a good price are meaningless. If you want a specific model done, contact someone, directly, that has done similar work, and ask them what THEY would charge .. That is the only answer that has value.

I have asked creator to no avail to this point, as if the question itself was an insult . Fully knowing what it takes to do highly detail content, and then get that content to work in trainzs.

One creator, many creators? You say "Fully knowing", but do you REALLY understand the time it takes to create the 3D Model, then create the Texture maps, then apply said texture maps, then actually convert and import, and write the Config, and Scripting, and etc. etc? I have been 3D modeling for a few years, I've made content for Trainz, MSTS and Rail Works; in all honesty, if you came and asked me directly, with the info you've provided in this entire thread, I would in-fact be insulted. You say you know and understand, but think that the "retail price" of one asset is even remotely accurate for a single commissioned piece. Multiply what you think it should cost by 10, then add $100.00 ... That is the DEPOSIT you'd have to make for me to even take you seriously, and begin discussing your project.

If it is the cases that you don't want to post such a price for fear of being held to it in the future, say so . No harm done . But is $50 to $150 to low ? this being a digital format .

Matt

There is no legal obligation to honor a theoretical quote via an anonymous message board, I assure you, no one is worried you'll "hold them" to the price.
-$50.00 will get you a half hour txt consultation. $150.00 will get you a phone call. $1,200.00 will get you a Modern Diesel and $3,600.00 will get you a detailed "heavy" Steam loco w/ Tender in approximately 3 months. (2 to 10 month completion window possible).

If you truly fully understand what all is involved with content creation, you won't be offended by this post.
If you don't understand yet, just do the math: $3,600.00 divided by 3 months (That's 480 HOURS of work time at 8 hours a day, 5 days a week=full time job)
= $7.50 an hour, basically, minimum wage for a Job that pays closer to $65.00 an hour in the "real world".
 
there's a load of B&O, NYC, I would like to see. But As stated before, I bleed PRR red .. So as to these, I would love to help get some of those done, my intent is to get my wish for the PRR engines and cars built first . Then work my way down.? The group working on the S1 has my interest . I haven't gotten a response yet

None of this is going to happen over night. But the list keep growing

Matt

To make a model can take hundreds of hours, what is a reasonable price per hour to pay for a specialist? If you want high quality then the number of content creators I'd consider drops very rapidly.

Then you have to consider the scripting and so forth. I've seen a very nice DMU that was created for payware. Trouble was the artist who created it knew nothing about scripting. Then you get into beta testing

think it doesn't matter the N3V duchess DLC had a number of things that were not correct. Good beta testers are hard to find.

I haven't mentioned engine specs, there are specialists who can create them, but I've seen them take a month or two to get one right. That's part of the problem with payware there are so many niches that you have to cover off and its rare that one person does it all.

Probably the best bet is find someone who has made something similar then get them to clone and update even that takes time, but you might get it for free if they are interested and you have done the research required.

Cheerio John
 
KingConrail76 First thanks you for your input, your opinion and attitude is fully understood.

Other people's opinions of a good price are meaningless.
Would this include yours ?

As to making content, yea I fully understand the time it takes in creating quality content .( IF YOU DOUBTED THIS STATEMENT why respond ) And then to then make that content work in a program such as TRAINZ's . ( You forgot to mention the PC and software and monitors ) . But I'm confused, was it the question, or the number you found so unacceptable or just me ? Because by giving your own example If I was to charge my working wage for bench-work to friends and other Hobbyist as a contractor for layout built . Holy cow, (BTW thousands of hours ) you tell me was free to low. We Don't know each other, so your assumption to my motives and intent are way off . Offending you sure as H@#$ wasn't It But , hey if your getting $1,200.00 to $3,600.00 for content, Or feel this a resealable price That's great, but if your insulted by the fact I feel your way too DAMM high . fine!

If you truly fully understand what all is involved with content creation, you won't be offended by this post.
If you don't understand yet, just do the math: $3,600.00 divided by 3 months (That's 480 HOURS of work time at 8 hours a day, 5 days a week=full time job)
= $7.50 an hour, basically, minimum wage for a Job that pays closer to $65.00 an hour in the "real world".

So would it be safe to to say this wold be your primary scours of income or a secondary ? since as you've said you make content for TRAINZ, MSTS and RAILWORK and my numbers would be consider an insult by you . OK . seems you made that apparent . But If so, state that. And if not, the examples you've given wouldn't apply in my opinion. And prices would be by as you say ( a value set by myself and the creator ) My value was, is a starting point. My plans for perches of future payware is tied to my being able to get what I like model . Your assertion that $3,600 is a fair price would give me great pause to true cost of virtual RR And that a move back to actual HO, O scale would be a consideration, as any good contractor would do in the real would trying to acquire pricing for future perches . Or if those perches could be made realty .

But I unlike you see this as strictly a HOBBY . And as a HOBBYIST I was asking what other Hobbyist would think a fair price is. So that this kind of conservation wouldn't tack place . If you are in anyway offended by my asking, posting of these inquires so be .

Again, given your example. this would mean most content on the DL is about the same price as gold taken that the hundred thousands hours of content all user are given access to ?


To all that have posted Thank you. The conservation for the most part has been in lighting and informative . And I think over .

Matt
 
Again, given your example. this would mean most content on the DL is about the same price as gold taken that the hundred thousands hours of content all user are given access to ?

And that strangely enough is where the value is in Trainz, the thousands of hours that hobbist content creators have put into it. I think it took me a couple of years to build a coach once but once its built then copies are free. Even your HO models cost an arm and a leg to create the first copy, after that it gets cheaper per copy.

Cheerio John
 
To all that have posted Thank you. The conservation for the most part has been in lighting and informative . And I think over .

Matt

That right there, is why no one with the ability to do what you want, will work with you. I gave you the answers to your questions, you don't like them, or agree with them, so you twist it all around to make yourself look less foolish.

Please don't misinterpret, mis-quote or paraphrase what I wrote. I was very clear with every word I chose to write my response to you with. All the answers to your confusion are already there.

More basic Math: To make a living wage of $15.00 an hour on your three month project, one would need to sell an additional 240 copies, at $15.00 each retail (that's in addition to your original commission fee of $3600.00)

At $15.00 retail, you would need to guarantee 534 sales before the project is even feasible, if you were to go your route, and gather others to share the cost (without a commission).

Now, lets not forget about Licensing Fees, that content creators have to pay to the Railroad, Do you know what those are? Last I checked, 3 years ago, Norfolk Southern wanted something like $500.00 a year for me to use their Logos on 3 Diesel Loco models with a projected sale of 150 of each item. If you sell more than the agreed amount, then you pay a penalty or fee, sell less, and you lose money. The other Railroads charge similarly. These costs are all DEDUCTED from the above mentioned "living wage", so now, it's only $14.87 per hour ...now electric to run my computers, and lights to read the books to do the research... there is more to it than just the hourly "Pay", like paying the hosting company that has your online shopping cart and transaction services. (This is all assuming ONE person, now imagine a 'team' of 3 or 4 or 5 guys, and their expenses).

It seems a lot of folks think that there is money to be made in Virtual Content creation, like it's some kind of money tree, just make a digital copy in a few key strokes, and fewer seconds ... All fine and good, IF people buy THAT MANY copies. If no one actually purchases anything, then someone spent a whole lot of time neglecting their family so you can have some stuff for your hobby for "low cost". I can't think of a single "Professional" content creator that does this as their main full time job, there just isn't any money in it. They do it in their spare time, after work, and after family. Your proposition to HIRE someone implies you expect them to get this done in a timely fashion ... It takes 480 HOURS ..spread that out over 2 hours here, two hours there, and that 3 month job now takes 3 years...will you wait 3 years to get a $3600.00 Engine for under $200.00?? NO, you'll be asking, and complaining, and wanting your money back after 5 months, because it takes too long, or you changed your mind ...you have no concept of what goes in to professional content creation on a commission basis.

You asked, I answered. I don't care about your opinion of my statements, I don't care if you are offended. If you can't accept reality, it has no bearing on my life what-so-ever.
 
Had an email this afternoon,

> These carriages will have taken me 2 years and 4 months from start to finish the majority of that time was deciding how to go about texturing and then creating suitable textures.

Does that give you an idea of the time spent creating something? There is more than one carriage though I must admit.

Cheerio John
 
KingConrail76

You and I will just haft to agree to disagree

I've made content for Trainz, MSTS and Rail Works; in all honesty, if you came and asked me directly, with the info you've provided in this entire thread, I would in-fact be insulted.

So if the number had been $3,600 ? This would be your stating price for your content . And there wouldn't be an issue . We Sir are at completely different sides of this issue . But Thanks

That right there, is why no one with the ability to do what you want, will work with you. I gave you the answers to your questions, you don't like them, or agree with them, so you twist it all around to make yourself look less foolish.

You didn't give an answer, as to attack me for asking . Your opinion isn't going to be given merit by me if done so in this manner . You act as thought I had personally injured you, suggesting a starting point not to your liking . Nothing I had posted was a set in stone as to numbers, so your insistence they were an insult to you stands . If this what you mean by being foolish ? So be it.

Please don't misinterpret, mis-quote or paraphrase what I wrote. I was very clear with every word I chose to write my response to you with. All the answers to your confusion are already there.

MISS-QUOTE you, No SIR . I in no way changed what you posted. I answered your posting in the same demeanor and clarity you gave .



Regardless. I get your point to cost, and take you at your word of creating content for Railwork, TRANE and MSTS. Just by your numbers sales for all three must be great, and you doing well. One agreement, I won't be working with you . My feeling is this is mutual .

Your trying to teach a construction worker the cost of construction, after 30 years of running 5 to 7 man crews . Is not working .


johnwhelan

Thank you for your posting , I found your input interesting

Matt
 
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That right there, is why no one with the ability to do what you want, will work with you.

On the contrary, he and I have talked and he seems to believe that I can do what he wants, with a price in an entirely separate universe from yours. Really I haven't changed what I expect for a commission since starting to take them 5+ years ago. Commission or not, this is a hobby for me, and I consider any financial gain made on hobby time to be worth it. I certainly wouldn't expect to make what I do at work from time when I'd otherwise be spending money. If it pays for some HO scale stuff, it's a good deal.

I can't think of a single "Professional" content creator that does this as their main full time job, there just isn't any money in it. They do it in their spare time, after work, and after family.

Unless your intentions with this statement are to insult some of my JR colleagues, you may be surprised to know that two of them do in fact do this full time.
 
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