Coal Unloading Question

M

Mick_Berg

New member
I'd like to revisit a problem that I came up against a while ago now. My route has a coal train that unloads one of its five coal wagons at each of five small coalyards, which each are simply a Multiple Industry New, set to accept the same amount of coal as the wagon's capacily. Thus only one wagon is emptied at each coalyard.

The coal train then goes back to the main coalyard and loads up again. But it will not unload at the small coalyards again, as the MIN's are full. I was thinking of having a coal truck load up the same amount of coal from the MIN, (this would be triggered by the coal train leaving the yard) and dumping it into another MIN with lots of capacity. My questions are, Is this a workable idea, and are there road vehicles that can carry coal, and how could I get a coal truck to visit the MIN and load the coal?

Thanks,
Mick Berg.
 
Increase the consume rate on the MIN's so that they are 'empty' when the train returns after reloading.

If the capacity of each of the MIN's is set to the wagon, then it will not matter too much what the consume rate is, I do this sometimes myself, increase the consume rate so that I know the train will unload all wagons when it arrives there.

I will sometimes do a 'test run' too see how long it takes me to get from the 'load' point (coal mine) to the 'unload' point (MIN) and back again to the 'load' point (coal mine) and work out the consume rate.
 
It takes 40 minutes for the coal train to arrive back at the same consuming MIN with a fresh supply of coal. The consuming MINs are set to the default 30 seconds, which I assume means that the coal is consumed 30 seconds after it is delivered, so they should be empty well in time to receive the next load of coal. But they will not accept it. I'm confused by this aspect of the MIN.
Thanks,
Mick Berg.
 
Mick

Specifying the cycle time is not enough in itself to set up the MIN. You also need to specify the quantity of material to be consumed (or produced) in that time. I think you do this under the Processes tab but I'm not looking at it right now so can't be sure.

Also, don't confuse (as I often do) the quantity per cycle with the initial quantity in stock, the holding capacity of the MIN, or the quantity of material that will fit into each railcar. They are different numbers.

I think the MIN control panel is not designed in a very clear fashion, but AussieNightCrawler's tutorial helps greatly. Maybe he will provide a link to it for you.

Dean
 
Hi.
Here are the actual settings of a test route I did with just one coal wagon.
It's a simple loop with one Producing MIN and one Consuming MIN. No matter what the duration setting is, the consuming MIN will only unload the wagon on the first time round the loop. The Driver commands are, Drive to Producing MIN, Load, Drive to Consuming MIN, Unload, Repeat. (Pretty simple!!)

Producing MIN:
Queue: Size; 100,000 units (plenty of coal), Initial; 0
Tracks: Product; Coal, Load into Vehicle
Processes: Produce 17 tonnes (capacity of wagon), Duration; 30 secs
Product: Coal, Vehicle; BR Freight MSO Grey, Load Size; 17 tonnes

Consuming MIN:
Queue: Size; 19,400 units (capacity of wagon), Initial; 0
Tracks: Product; Coal, Unload from Vehicle
Processes: Consume 17 tonnes (capacity of wagon), Duration; 5 - 30 secs
Product: Coal, Vehicle; BR Freight MSO Grey, Load Size; 17 tonnes

30 seconds is plenty long enough for the consuming MIN to empty out before the train arrives again. And I also tried it with 5 seconds. I really don't understand why it doesn't work. Would anyone be interested to recreate this session and get it to work? I'd be grateful.

Thanks,
Mick Berg.
 
Last edited:
I think I found the problem. There seems to be a math problem with the MIN. Maybe it's in the conversion from tonnes to liters to units or what ever but if there isn't enough to consume in one time period then it won't consume anything.

What I did was set the consumption to 2 tonnes every 30 seconds and then it worked. You do need to tweak it a bit cause if I got there too soon it wouldn't fully unload the car.
 
Mick_Berg said:
Hi.
Producing MIN:
Queue: Size; 100,000 units (plenty of coal), Initial; 0
Tracks: Product; Coal, Load into Vehicle
Processes: Produce 17 tonnes (capacity of wagon), Duration; 30 secs
Product: Coal, Vehicle; BR Freight MSO Grey, Load Size; 17 tonnes

Consuming MIN:
Queue: Size; 19,400 units (capacity of wagon), Initial; 0
Tracks: Product; Coal, Unload from Vehicle
Processes: Consume 17 tonnes (capacity of wagon), Duration; 5 - 30 secs
Product: Coal, Vehicle; BR Freight MSO Grey, Load Size; 17 tonnes
Mick Berg.
Click to expand...

Try to use the same throughout the setup, you have used Units and Tonnes, change the Tonnes to Units or visa-versa (change Units to Tonnes). Only use 1 form of measurement, Tonnes or Units or Liters and not a combination of them.

I usually use Units when setting up an M.I.N, just easier to remember all the way through the setup process.
 
AAAaaahhhh . . . . the fog is clearing. I just finished 12 hours on my route. Time flies when ur Trainzing !!

I just finished my first "custom" industry using MIN. Its a huge cement factory . . . my route-in-progress is huge (driving time from main yard to Cement factory is 34 minutes, average speed 50mph . . . and its just a local branch line - minimum curve radius anywhere is 200m). The other industry is a coal mine, the large one that comes with TRS2006. It produces a LOT of Coal . . . 26 Bethgons & 8 40ft tankers full of diesel is the consist.

Being a NEWBIE . . . the "capacity" of each car . . . I thought was in pounds. Now I know its "UNITS" . . . whatever that is.

So . . . what is the UNITS to TONNES conversion ??!! How many units to a Tonne ? I must have made things right, by luck, that after tweaking the properties of the coal mine, I was finally able to fill all 26 coal cars.

The "Bethgon" (US rolling stock) capacity reads "69,247" . . . those are "UNITS", right? I guessed that the capacity in tons (imperial, since its a US rolling stock :hehe:) was roughly 35 tons ! LOL Well . . . the coal mine is working . . . for now.

Back to my MEGA Cement factory. It consumes . . . currently . . . Sand, one of the 3 main raw material for cement production, Diesel fuel for the trucks, bull dozers and shovels that operate in the adjacent limestone quarry, the second raw material. The third is "aluminum" . . . I'll add that MIN later when I finish my research on what form a cement factory receives aluminum. If anyone knows . . . please let me know.

It produces a LOT of Cement in bulk and in bags on pallets. The consist that service the cement factory is 32 2-bay hoppers, 10 86ft hi-cube box cars for the cement pallets, 8 Bethgons loaded with sand and 4 tankers of diesel fuel. The train leaves the main yard with this consist plus the empty consist for the coal mine to the branch yard . . . up a 0.75% grade most of the way. A triple headed 8-axle Locos can only muster 48mph at notch 8 up the hill with this mostly empty consist. I haven't tried this consist fully loaded yet. Possible runaway train !!

After some tweaking with the MIN . . . it now accepts al the diesel fuel and sand. Deisel unloading is the MI with the ugly concrete "thingy" that sucks out the load from the tankers. The first unloader I tried to use is the "basic coal unloader" . . . much to my surprise . . . I can't get it to accept sand. IT IS NOT a MULTI-INDUSTRY . . . Grrrrrrrrr:'(. So I used the MIN. It works but I had to hide it within a "shed" and concrete walls . . . I didn't want it to look like its dumping the load on the tracks !!!

Is there a "MULTI-INDUSTRY, Granular Unloader" for sand, cement, gravel etc. that looks like the "basic coal unloader ???

The OTHER DISAPPOINTING SURPRISE was when I filled the Bethgons with SAND . . . it filled up with COAL . . . even though its carrying SAND !!!! Being a NEWBIE . . . I thought the color of the load would change to something resembling SAND !! Black for coal, Tan for sand, Grey for gravel etc. IS THERE A WAY TO MAKE THE LOADS IN GONDOLAS LOOK LIKE SOMETHING OTHER THAN COAL ??!!

MY FRUSTRATION was with the cement pallets . . . IT HAS A LIMITATION OF 256 UNITS !! After dragging 10 86ft boxcars . . . only 1 was filled and no more !! I was confused and frustrated and missed a bad switch setting and derailed my train . . . so I quit !!! After reading this thread and the MIN tutorial . . . I understand what the "duration" value means. Was it so hard to say "produced/consumed every 30 seconds" ??!! Even an idiot like myself can understand that !!! Now I know what "Size" means . . . I kept saying "SIZE OF WHAT !!!" . . . until my girlfriend said "blank-blank inches" :hehe:

So, I assume that if I set the "Size" for the cement pallets to 256 (max. allowed) and Duration to 2 (seconds), as soon as one boxcar is filled . . . there should be 256 units of cement pallet available for loading into the next boxcar . . . right ?? It takes me more than 2 seconds to get the next boxcar ready for loading . . . even if I used DCC mode. Please, someone tell me that my assumption is correct !

I am a NEWBIE . . . and like ALL newbies, I read the manual . . . somewhat. I vaguely remember reading that "WAY BILLS" are automatically issued by industries when a delivery or pick up is required. So far . . . the ONLY "Way Bill" I get in "Driver" mode is from the "deisel refueling station" requiring delivery . . . NONE from the Cement Factory or the Coal Mine. Did I miss something in setting up my MIN and the "Ready-to-go" coal mine ??? I'd like to see a Way-Bill entry from my new industries when I start a "Driver Session"

I have MANY questions about signals and AI . . . but they belong on other threads. I have avoided AI after reading about their problems here in the forum. I'll face "signals" & "AI (Automatic Idiots)" later . . . maybe the next 4-day holiday.

Does anyone know of a LARGE excavator that works for a quarry or open strip mine??

Is there a "concrete factory" . . . that makes concrete delivered by concrete trucks to construction sites?

Is there a "concrete truck" on DLS ?

Anyone come across a "concrete masonry block pallets" ??
I apologize for a VERY long-winded post :udrool:

Thanks in advance for any replies.
 
That white excavator in the pic below might be suitable. It is by Alien3. He also did the nice drill rig in the background there and some piles of blast-hole drill cuttings to go with it.

patagonia072mx6.jpg
 
Dinorius !!

That is what I'm looking for. The yellow large dump trucks are nice too !! Are the drill rig, large excavator and the yellow trucks on DLS ??????? I want them.

Nice texturing in the quarry ! I see that I need to do more detailing in my quarry :( LOL


By the way . . . Whats the easiest way to attach screen shots of my route? I know how to turn "Print Screen" clipboard into jpg file in my Photoshop . . . but do I need my own website to store the images? Is there a FREE site where I can upload my screen shots and use that URL to insert it into my posts?

Thanks
 
Last edited:
Ok, let me break this down a little so I can follow it... :)

Being a NEWBIE . . . the "capacity" of each car . . . I thought was in pounds. Now I know its "UNITS" . . . whatever that is.
Click to expand...

Just a form of measurement used by Trainz, reason why I said to setup the M.I.N using Units as it makes life easier.

The "Bethgon" (US rolling stock) capacity reads "69,247" . . . those are "UNITS", right? I guessed that the capacity in tons (imperial, since its a US rolling stock ) was roughly 35 tons ! LOL Well . . . the coal mine is working . . . for now.
Click to expand...

Yes, but you are wrong about the 35 tonnes though, more like about 65 tonnes.

After some tweaking with the MIN . . . it now accepts al the diesel fuel and sand. Deisel unloading is the MI with the ugly concrete "thingy" that sucks out the load from the tankers. The first unloader I tried to use is the "basic coal unloader" . . . much to my surprise . . . I can't get it to accept sand. IT IS NOT a MULTI-INDUSTRY . . . Grrrrrrrrr. So I used the MIN. It works but I had to hide it within a "shed" and concrete walls . . . I didn't want it to look like its dumping the load on the tracks !!!
Click to expand...

Do a search on the DLS for unloader and you will find a Ground-grilled Unloader by Zato, its a scenery object that can be placed to look like an actually bulk products unloader.

Is there a "MULTI-INDUSTRY, Granular Unloader" for sand, cement, gravel etc. that looks like the "basic coal unloader ???
Click to expand...

See the above, then just setup the M.I.N to consume which ever you need.

The OTHER DISAPPOINTING SURPRISE was when I filled the Bethgons with SAND . . . it filled up with COAL . . . even though its carrying SAND !!!! Being a NEWBIE . . . I thought the color of the load would change to something resembling SAND !! Black for coal, Tan for sand, Grey for gravel etc. IS THERE A WAY TO MAKE THE LOADS IN GONDOLAS LOOK LIKE SOMETHING OTHER THAN COAL ??!!
Click to expand...

Due to the wagon having no 'mesh' or 'texture' for the load of sand, did you set the wagon up right?

MY FRUSTRATION was with the cement pallets . . . IT HAS A LIMITATION OF 256 UNITS !! After dragging 10 86ft boxcars . . . only 1 was filled and no more !! I was confused and frustrated and missed a bad switch setting and derailed my train . . . so I quit !!! After reading this thread and the MIN tutorial . . . I understand what the "duration" value means. Was it so hard to say "produced/consumed every 30 seconds" ??!! Even an idiot like myself can understand that !!! Now I know what "Size" means . . . I kept saying "SIZE OF WHAT !!!" . . . until my girlfriend said "blank-blank inches"
Click to expand...

Mostly due to programming limits, most products are limited to 255 or 256, in all honestly, one wagon can not hold 256 pallets of cement, maybe you need to tweak to config.txt file of the wagon you want to use so that it holds less so that you can load more wagons.

So, I assume that if I set the "Size" for the cement pallets to 256 (max. allowed) and Duration to 2 (seconds), as soon as one boxcar is filled . . . there should be 256 units of cement pallet available for loading into the next boxcar . . . right ?? It takes me more than 2 seconds to get the next boxcar ready for loading . . . even if I used DCC mode. Please, someone tell me that my assumption is correct !
Click to expand...

Best idea would be to adjust the config.txt file of the wagon to hold less so you can load more wagons.

I am a NEWBIE . . . and like ALL newbies, I read the manual . . . somewhat. I vaguely remember reading that "WAY BILLS" are automatically issued by industries when a delivery or pick up is required. So far . . . the ONLY "Way Bill" I get in "Driver" mode is from the "deisel refueling station" requiring delivery . . . NONE from the Cement Factory or the Coal Mine. Did I miss something in setting up my MIN and the "Ready-to-go" coal mine ??? I'd like to see a Way-Bill entry from my new industries when I start a "Driver Session"
Click to expand...

Waybills will only be posted if the industry reqires something, so if your coal mines diesel fuel runs low, say it only has 20% diesel remaining in storage, it will then issue a waybill to be filled.

I have MANY questions about signals and AI . . . but they belong on other threads. I have avoided AI after reading about their problems here in the forum. I'll face "signals" & "AI (Automatic Idiots)" later . . . maybe the next 4-day holiday.
Click to expand...

I use AI drivers on my own layouts and have very little problems with them, its just a matter of setting everything up and keeping them in mind as you do it, like placing signals in the right locations, placing Trackmarks where they may need them to get where they are going or need to be.


Another thing, the M.I.N can be setup to consume and or produce quite a few products at the smae time, this requires "advanced" setup on different 'Queues' for different products, I have an M.I.N setup on my own layout which produces Lumber and Furniture.

Hope this puts some light on the subject.

As for screenshots, go to the screenshots forum and have a look in there for Imageshack, there is a tutorial on how to post images.
 
edion2 said:
Dinorius !!

.........Are the drill rig, large excavator and the yellow trucks on DLS ??????? ........
Click to expand...

Yes, everything you see in that pic is from the DLS. Alien3 has made quite a few mining-related things, it's worth trawling through his portfolio. The haul trucks pictured are from another author though, as are the Caterpillar bulldozers.

As Aussie said, imageshack.com is widely used to store screenshots.
 
Aussie,

Thanks for your input. I think I have a much better grasp of MIN.

Regarding 256 limit on Cement pallet :
I tried the "2 second trick" IT WORKS ! The 86ft Hi-Cube box cars loads 256 units into each car (it was arleady set up to accept 256). . . although I didn't think about changing the capacity previously. I was able to load 10 box cars because of the 2 second interval. The MIN loaded 256 units into each car. By changing the "Duration" to 2 seconds, it loaded all the cars. The only problem I can think of is that the "Way bill" will only request for 256 units to be picked up. But then, my MIN has NEVER sent out a "Way bill" request . . . I guess I'll get to that later.

Regarding SAND load that LOOKS LIKE COAL :
The only thing I did to "SET UP MY WAGON" was to select a product (sand) and entered the capacity amount. Then it fills up with "black coal". I would guess that the "looks" of the load is somewhere in the car's (wagon, for Aussies ;)) config text. I had assumed there is a "list" of different loads (sand, coal, gravel, scrap metal etc.) in the config text. I thought that when it was loaded with something, it would match the proper "load" from the list and use IT to fill the car. When YOU load one of your wagons with sand, does it look like sand? I must be missing the KUID for a sand load ?? I'm missing something.

Regarding WAYBILLS :
I'll try setting the "start amount" to nearly or zero. That should force it to issue a Waybill . . . I guess. Is the Waybill produced at the beginning of each session AUTOMATICALLY? . . . or do I have t do something to generate a Waybill.


I will look for that "ground grill unloader" on DLS.

I installed some signals after reading a tutorial on them. So far so good . . . Its not ALL RED ALL THE TIME anymore :hehe:.

I'd have to read up on AI a bit more but I'm glad to hear you've got them in line.

Basic AI question :
Lets say, I'm following an AI train and it switches off to a branch to an industry. What happens to THAT switch the AI changed to go into the branch AFTER he has passed it? Does is REVERT back to the way it was before the AI switched it? I don't want to go where he went . . . I need to keep going further. Do I need to stop and change the switch direction?

I'm sure the answer is somewhere in the manual . . . but this is fasteer LOL.

Thanks
 
The easiest way to add a product to a wagon, in Surveyor open the properties window of the wagon (click on the ? on the trains tab then click on the wagon). Now click on the black + next to the product, a list of products will appear, select the product from the list and click on the 'tick' to confirm.

The hard way of adding a product to a wagon is to manually add the kuid of the product in the config.txt file through CMP (I will leave it at that for now... :))

A waybill will only be issued by an industry when it requires a certain amount of a product to be delivered, never when there is a certain amount of a product to be picked up. So yes, by setting the starting amount nearly or at zero (0) then the industry will (should) do a waybill straight away at the beginning of a session.

AI will return switches/junctions/levers back to their default positions after they have passed, so if an AI switches a switch/junction to go into a branch line then the switch will revert back after he passes. Which means that no, you will not have to stop and change the switch/junction yourself.

Remember also, if you change a switch/junction then change it back after you pass it, or you will confuse the AI.
 
Back to the MIN, I'm having a new problem. Any new MIN that I add to my route (I'm doing some experimenting) will no longer see any of my rolling stock (ie the BR MCO Grey coal wagons and the Jinty). So I can't set up the Products tab. Any ideas why this could be? The old stuff is still working OK.

Also, AussieNightCrawler said "Try to use the same throughout the setup, you have used Units and Tonnes, change the Tonnes to Units or visa-versa (change Units to Tonnes). Only use 1 form of measurement, Tonnes or Units or Liters and not a combination of them."

That doesn't seem to be possible, the Processes and Products tabs only have one option, tonnes, other tabs will only allow units.
Thanks,
Mick Berg.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

B
TLR Problem??
Replies
6
Views
237
buffedub
B
B
Coal production & Delivery Issues
2
Replies
38
Views
3K
ColPrice2002
C
R
I've got a few questions about functionality in Driver...
Replies
5
Views
172
RobWed
R
B
Trouble with route design/ready to make scenes but don't know the altitude
Replies
18
Views
1K
BraselC5048
B
n3v_laurence
  • Locked
Trainz Plus Beta TLR Phase 2 - 127058
2 3 4
Replies
64
Views
4K
n3v_laurence
n3v_laurence
Back
Top