Can a PDF be included in a CDP for upload to the DLS?

[leeferr]

Then do what you will, but keep that separate from the game assets.




My point is that the CDP archives consist only of in-game files. If you want to create additional content for out-of-game consumption and place it online somewhere (your website, our wiki, somewhere else..) then that's fine. But don't put it into the CDP files.

"Hiding" a file within a CDP, then expecting the end-user of your content to (1) know to look there, (2) know how to edit your content, (3) know what to do with it once they find it, and (4) not mess things up in the process, is a bit much.

To me, it's a bit like shipping a computer with the instruction manuals screwed inside the case. Written in Braille. With nothing telling the user that they should open the computer up and look inside. I get that some people have done this in the past, and I get that for a small handful of people, it's been beneficial, but most people are missing out when this approach is used and it's those people that we care about.

There are other solutions that don't involve these problems. It's up to you which one best suits your needs.

chris

I'm going to quit with this dead horse. All that I was asking was a way to include a .pdf with a route that I upload to the DLS. I know that I could include it on another hosted site, but I was really interested in a way to include it in a DLS route. You and N3V obviously don't want to allow us a way to do this, so I'm fine with it. It's your dime. BTW, it wasn't me that suggested 'hiding' a file within a .cdp. That's not what I was trying to do.

Mike

 

[JCitron]

I'm going to quit with this dead horse. All that I was asking was a way to include a .pdf with a route that I upload to the DLS. I know that I could include it on another hosted site, but I was really interested in a way to include it in a DLS route. You and N3V obviously don't want to allow us a way to do this, so I'm fine with it. It's your dime. BTW, it wasn't me that suggested 'hiding' a file within a .cdp. That's not what I was trying to do.

Mike

I understand what Chris is trying to do here. As someone who supports over 650 users, I am constantly repeating myself even though I've included explicit instructions on how to do things. The problem is a few of us read instructions, but the majority of the population do not read.

Including a misnamed file so it doesn't get munged by the uploader is a sneaky backdoor around the guards. This could also be a security issue, and a way of importing a virus into the system if someone was malicious to do that. So, I understand why Chris says it's not a good idea. (Yes, I know you didn't say this was your idea, but I thought to say this as I was typing about the other stuff. They're related).

Chris mentioned the tag info-url. This might be a place to start, as he says. Perhaps the kit information could be typed into an html page and linked within the asset. I wonder where this would be displayed? As a link on the properties "?" button?

This is a good idea because trying to remember what some content is while in Surveyor gets pretty confusing. Perhaps pictures could be put in there too that explain how to put things together, etc. I'm not a content creator, so I wouldn't know where to begin.

John

 

[Dermmy]

... Perhaps the kit information could be typed into an html page and linked within the asset. I wonder where this would be displayed? As a link on the properties "?" button?

This is a good idea because trying to remember what some content is while in Surveyor gets pretty confusing. Perhaps pictures could be put in there too that explain how to put things together, etc. I'm not a content creator, so I wouldn't know where to begin.

John

Have a look at Boat's 'ATLS' controller (kuid in screenshot): 100% 'legal' asset with full tutorial including pictures and (iirc) external links, all at the click of the '?' button...

Andy

 

[JCitron]

Full tutorial with pictures and (iirc) external links, all at the click of the '?' button...

Andy

Awesome, Andy!

I haven't used any parts that had that feature yet in all my years of route building!

John

 

[Dermmy]

Awesome, Andy!

John

Oops - not my creation, and apologies to Boat for a post that could be taken to mean that it was.. original post edited.

You are right though John, it's awesome!

Andy

 

[misterchugg]

hi mates

so just how does that thing work?

how can a dummy like me use it?

not that i think i will,

but its nice to know that i could

cheers
ron

 

[WindWalkr]

I apologize, I do understand that you don't wish to talk with me,

I'm not sure where you get that idea?

Two questions in TS12 are:
-how to resize (expand) the width of the page for the table, when we use 'Display HTML Pages' and 'Set HTML Pages'

By "table" do you mean "window"? If so, you can't. You would need to write your own rule.

-how to recall page later in the session, if we use rules 'Display HTML', 'Display HTML Resizable' or 'Timed limited display HTML'. ( old 'info button' and new 'Toggle session instruction' don't work in TS12 for this rules).

Using the built-in 'Display HTML Pages' and 'Set HTML Pages' rules, you can add new pages at any time, which I believe will automatically bring up the session info window again. The user can also use the 'toggle session instructions' menu to bring this window up at any time.

chris

 

[WindWalkr]

The problem with using N3V wiki as a host is more how stable will it be? You do have a history of deleting content creation information from time to time.

By "deleting content creation information", I assume you mean the fact that we took down the trainzdev forums, whose purpose in life was to bring about the TS2009 project? In which case, mission accomplished. It would have been nice if we could have made the forums available as a searchable archive somewhere, but we don't have the manpower to maintain that kind of thing. I can't think of any example where we've deliberately erased any resource that was actually dedicated to providing content-creation information.

chris

 

[WindWalkr]

BTW, it wasn't me that suggested 'hiding' a file within a .cdp. That's not what I was trying to do.

To clarify: I consider placing any form of documentation into a CDP file "hiding it". I'm not referring specifically to messing with the file types. I'm not suggesting that hiding documentation within a CDP is hostile or harmful, just pointing out that I don't think it's particularly beneficial to the community as a whole.

chris

 

[leeferr]

To clarify: I consider placing any form of documentation into a CDP file "hiding it". I'm not referring specifically to messing with the file types. I'm not suggesting that hiding documentation within a CDP is hostile or harmful, just pointing out that I don't think it's particularly beneficial to the community as a whole.

chris

It's not hiding it if there's a way to include it that N3V supports. That's all that I was getting at. If a .txt document can be included, I don't understand why a .pdf couldn't be also. Where's the harm? Obviously, N3V doesn't support it, so the case is closed for me. If you're implying that I was suggesting 'hiding' something in the .cdp, read my posts again.

Mike

 

[WindWalkr]

It's not hiding it if there's a way to include it that N3V supports.

As above, I personally think that anything that is only accessible by opening an asset for editing is "hidden" from the average user.

My point is not about the file format. You're right that we don't provide support for PDF at all, but even if we were talking about TXT files, my point is still the same.

It's simply that many users won't even know it's there. I'm not blaming you for wanting to document your work- in fact I think that's a great idea- but I don't think that including "unused" files within the asset itself is an effective way to achieve that.

cheers,

chris

 

[celje]

By "table" do you mean "window"? If so, you can't. You would need to write your own rule.
Using the built-in 'Display HTML Pages' and 'Set HTML Pages' rules, you can add new pages at any time, which I believe will automatically bring up the session info window again. The user can also use the 'toggle session instructions' menu to bring this window up at any time.
chris

Hello WindWalkr

I will try to explain a little more

If we made HTML page for text then iin TS text will show in the fixed width, the scroll feature automatically kicks in. But if we made HTML table for e.g. timetable, which have the bigger width, then in TS page don't show all the table because she has the fixed width( a part of table is covered under the width of thr TS page).
So i try to use substitutes with 'Display HTML', 'Display HTML Resizable' or 'Timed limited display HTML' which enables the bigger width. How to recall them later in the game? The old solution (from e.g. TS06) where we put in the 'Properties of Set HTML Pages', ''Use the page button.html from the HTML asset Info button'', don't work in TS12.
Please be so kind and help what to do.

regards
celje

 

[leeferr]

As above, I personally think that anything that is only accessible by opening an asset for editing is "hidden" from the average user.

My point is not about the file format. You're right that we don't provide support for PDF at all, but even if we were talking about TXT files, my point is still the same.

It's simply that many users won't even know it's there. I'm not blaming you for wanting to document your work- in fact I think that's a great idea- but I don't think that including "unused" files within the asset itself is an effective way to achieve that.

cheers,

chris

Chris
It appears that semantics may be at the root of our discussion. I wouldn't have personally considered it as a hidden file, so your use of the word hidden is what's been throwing me off. Following you logic, then I'm supposing that you're considering the readme.txt file as hidden. If that's the case, then I understand where you're coming from by use of the word.

regards
Mike

 

[Euphod]

That whole exchange was painful to read...

 

[leeferr]

That whole exchange was painful to read...

Painful for me too. I knew before I even began how it would turn out, but I at least wanted try. I'm just a masochist sometimes I guess.

 

[johnwhelan]

By "deleting content creation information", I assume you mean the fact that we took down the trainzdev forums, whose purpose in life was to bring about the TS2009 project? In which case, mission accomplished. It would have been nice if we could have made the forums available as a searchable archive somewhere, but we don't have the manpower to maintain that kind of thing. I can't think of any example where we've deliberately erased any resource that was actually dedicated to providing content-creation information.

chris

I don't think it was just the TS2009 forum but something even earlier and I forget exactly what it was. At the back of my mind I have an idea that was one of the driving forces behind the wikibook.

Cheerio John

 

[WindWalkr]

But if we made HTML table for e.g. timetable, which have the bigger width, then in TS page don't show all the table because she has the fixed width( a part of table is covered under the width of thr TS page).

Okay, so you're trying to make a larger window, which isn't supported by our standard 'session info' type rules. I'd have to say that you're probably aiming in the wrong direction. We keep the size limited for a reason, it's not just an arbitrary "oh, this size looks good." If you require that the window is a larger fixed size, then you're likely to encounter situations where it just won't work- people with lower display resolution, etc.

So i try to use substitutes with 'Display HTML', 'Display HTML Resizable' or 'Timed limited display HTML' which enables the bigger width. How to recall them later in the game? The old solution (from e.g. TS06) where we put in the 'Properties of Set HTML Pages', ''Use the page button.html from the HTML asset Info button'', don't work in TS12.
Please be so kind and help what to do.

You would need to write a new rule using the "Display HTML Pages" (etc) built-in rules as a model. It can certainly be done, but as above I don't recommend it.

cheers,

chris

 

[WindWalkr]

Following you logic, then I'm supposing that you're considering the readme.txt file as hidden. If that's the case, then I understand where you're coming from by use of the word.

Yes, I'm considering as "hidden" anything which is only accessible by opening an asset for editing.

There are definitely better ways to approach this kind of documentation. We have some support, albeit rudimentary, to enable this in Trainz. It is a bit of an R&D topic, and if anyone is interested in pushing the boundaries then I'd be interested in hearing what they have to say.

Boat's asset mentioned earlier in this thread is interesting, although it's "hidden" in a different sense (available in-game, but in an area which users are generally "trained" to ignore.)

chris

 

[celje]

Hello WindWalkr

Thank you for the answer. I admit i'm a little disappointed, alot of effort i put in making the timetable. I need approximately 50% more width, or about a half of the wide screen at resolution 1920.
And i admit too, I have no knowledge to write a new rule, maybe you will be so kind or someone from Trainz community

regards
celje

 

[johnwhelan]

Hello WindWalkr

Thank you for the answer. I admit i'm a little disappointed, alot of effort i put in making the timetable. I need approximately 50% more width.
And i admit too, I have no knowledge to write a new rule, maybe you will be so kind or someone from Trainz community

regards
celje

I think this post shows both the strength and weakness of the community. It sometimes doesn't follow the ideal method that a professional developer might do but it is capable of some very interesting innovations.

Cheerio John