mezzoprezzo
Content appreciator
Thanks AJ
Casper
Casper
Campaign to retain full DLS for TRS2004/06
- Thread starter mezzoprezzo
- Start date
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rac_hammer
New member
it sounds to me like auran is trying to force ppl into buying 2009-10 games and in doing so i think they might be starting to dig theier own grave. Allways when some one tries this it ends up in some other game taking over. So i hope auran comes to theier senses and find some other solution to this situation that will ensure that everyone regardless of wich trainz they are using can upload and download freely. i got both 2006 and 2009 and i use loads of stuff originally created for 2004 and most of teh time you can´t even see if they where made for 2004 or 2009. So i think a majority agress with me in saying "keep 2004/06 online" and i do hope auran will listen to theier gamers/ Rikard rac_hammer
ZecMurphy
Community Assistant
Hi All
In regards to 'support' for the versions of Trainz, this must include the DLS. Mainly because older versions of Trainz include older code for downloading/DLS access. As we will be dropping all other support for these editions in September, any changes we make to the DLS after this point would not necessarily work with the older editions of Trainz, and as such no updates would be made available. This would cause the editions to no longer have DLS access, even though the DLS is supposed to still support them. As such, we would need to either continue support for all editions until the production of Trainz ended, or fully drop all support for these editions.
A perfect example of this is the recently server upgrade, of which earlier editions of Trainz (TC3 and older) did not pick up on, and hence were not able to access the DLS. The early editions of Trainz did not pick up on the server change, as the code was not able to update properly. We have been working on this issue, however to work on this issue does require time and resources, which do cost money. After these editions are outside the support period, we will not be working to ensure that the DLS remains compatible with them, allowing us to make improvements to the way the DLS functions.
If we wish to add further features to the DLS, so as to improve it for you, the end user, or we need to make other changes that may affect the download tools, then we would need to either provide updates for 5 basic versions of Trainz (not including every possible build that is available from different publishers, which would number into the hundreds, and which can in some cases require completely new patches), which would not be cost efficient (in particular for versions of Trainz that are 4+ years old, since the code will be very different from the more current versions of Trainz, e.g. the Download Helper from 04 and CM3.2 from 2010). The other option would simply be to leave the DLS as-is, and not do any improvements/maintenance on it, as this could prevent older editions from being able to download. This would likely cause the DLS to eventually become highly unstable (beyond anything experienced so far), due to the 'patches' that we would need to do to make it compatible with all editions.
To make the above a little more simple. To continue providing support for older versions of Trainz (or more, their download helpers/content managers) on the DLS would require us to ensure that the DLS remains compatible with them specifically, and hence would prevent us from any further development of the DLS.
As is outlined in the Life Cycle article on the Wiki, those who either have a newer serial number, or a First Class Ticket, will still have access to the DLS, however the method of access may change over time. For example, you may only be able to access it via the 'FTP' links on the DLS. Or you may only be able to access it through a newer edition of Trainz (for example, download with 2009, then open it for edit and copy it into the older edition of Trainz).
As part of this, and so as to work to improve the uploads system further, we will also be stopping uploads for older editions of Trainz (namely, you will only be able to upload for the oldest support version). This will allow us to remove the error checking settings for the old editions of Trainz (and hence will reduce the number of variations that need to be checked for if we make an update). This also means that the error checking used in Trainz will be closer to that used on the DLS, hence making it easier for content creators to ensure that their content is error free. As we do make improvements to the error checking, the error checking in TRS2004 is not close to that on the DLS, nor is the error checking in TRS2006. The DLS will pick up the same errors as in TRS2006, however it will also pick up on other errors as well (for example a missing texture is an error, and is now shown as such).
For those requesting a separate DLS for older editions, this is also costly as it would likely require a separate server. Or, at a minimum, extra code (and hence a fair bit of work), which is also costly due to the time required. As such, this server would not be a free server, since it would be operated only for editions of Trainz that are no longer supported (and would no longer be available for sale in the majority of stores, and will not be available from our store).
However, the main issue, as described above, is the issue of having to support the old editions of Trainz in any future updates to the DLS. To support them does mean that we would need to refrain from any updates/changes that may prevent CMP/TDH etc from accessing the DLS.
Now, as a note, I would ask that everyone keep personal attacks out of this thread. Everyone does have their own opinion, and this should be respected. However, please also write your posts as respectfully. If you feel that someone may take your post as a personal attack, then please think about how else you may be able to phrase it. I will not change any previous posts, as there are some very valid points that build upon other posts, etc.
However, I will be monitoring this thread closely for any personal attacks, so as to ensure that this thread does not dissolve into a flame war, as this does not help anybody, and to keep the thread as a logical discussion on this topic.
The above is a description of some of the reasons for the removal of older editions from support.
On a good note, however, we are working on the issues with downloading for those older versions, if they have not already been sorted (it may take 24 hours for any fixes to fully take effect). This should include TRS2004 as well.
Thank you
In regards to 'support' for the versions of Trainz, this must include the DLS. Mainly because older versions of Trainz include older code for downloading/DLS access. As we will be dropping all other support for these editions in September, any changes we make to the DLS after this point would not necessarily work with the older editions of Trainz, and as such no updates would be made available. This would cause the editions to no longer have DLS access, even though the DLS is supposed to still support them. As such, we would need to either continue support for all editions until the production of Trainz ended, or fully drop all support for these editions.
A perfect example of this is the recently server upgrade, of which earlier editions of Trainz (TC3 and older) did not pick up on, and hence were not able to access the DLS. The early editions of Trainz did not pick up on the server change, as the code was not able to update properly. We have been working on this issue, however to work on this issue does require time and resources, which do cost money. After these editions are outside the support period, we will not be working to ensure that the DLS remains compatible with them, allowing us to make improvements to the way the DLS functions.
If we wish to add further features to the DLS, so as to improve it for you, the end user, or we need to make other changes that may affect the download tools, then we would need to either provide updates for 5 basic versions of Trainz (not including every possible build that is available from different publishers, which would number into the hundreds, and which can in some cases require completely new patches), which would not be cost efficient (in particular for versions of Trainz that are 4+ years old, since the code will be very different from the more current versions of Trainz, e.g. the Download Helper from 04 and CM3.2 from 2010). The other option would simply be to leave the DLS as-is, and not do any improvements/maintenance on it, as this could prevent older editions from being able to download. This would likely cause the DLS to eventually become highly unstable (beyond anything experienced so far), due to the 'patches' that we would need to do to make it compatible with all editions.
To make the above a little more simple. To continue providing support for older versions of Trainz (or more, their download helpers/content managers) on the DLS would require us to ensure that the DLS remains compatible with them specifically, and hence would prevent us from any further development of the DLS.
As is outlined in the Life Cycle article on the Wiki, those who either have a newer serial number, or a First Class Ticket, will still have access to the DLS, however the method of access may change over time. For example, you may only be able to access it via the 'FTP' links on the DLS. Or you may only be able to access it through a newer edition of Trainz (for example, download with 2009, then open it for edit and copy it into the older edition of Trainz).
As part of this, and so as to work to improve the uploads system further, we will also be stopping uploads for older editions of Trainz (namely, you will only be able to upload for the oldest support version). This will allow us to remove the error checking settings for the old editions of Trainz (and hence will reduce the number of variations that need to be checked for if we make an update). This also means that the error checking used in Trainz will be closer to that used on the DLS, hence making it easier for content creators to ensure that their content is error free. As we do make improvements to the error checking, the error checking in TRS2004 is not close to that on the DLS, nor is the error checking in TRS2006. The DLS will pick up the same errors as in TRS2006, however it will also pick up on other errors as well (for example a missing texture is an error, and is now shown as such).
For those requesting a separate DLS for older editions, this is also costly as it would likely require a separate server. Or, at a minimum, extra code (and hence a fair bit of work), which is also costly due to the time required. As such, this server would not be a free server, since it would be operated only for editions of Trainz that are no longer supported (and would no longer be available for sale in the majority of stores, and will not be available from our store).
However, the main issue, as described above, is the issue of having to support the old editions of Trainz in any future updates to the DLS. To support them does mean that we would need to refrain from any updates/changes that may prevent CMP/TDH etc from accessing the DLS.
Now, as a note, I would ask that everyone keep personal attacks out of this thread. Everyone does have their own opinion, and this should be respected. However, please also write your posts as respectfully. If you feel that someone may take your post as a personal attack, then please think about how else you may be able to phrase it. I will not change any previous posts, as there are some very valid points that build upon other posts, etc.
However, I will be monitoring this thread closely for any personal attacks, so as to ensure that this thread does not dissolve into a flame war, as this does not help anybody, and to keep the thread as a logical discussion on this topic.
The above is a description of some of the reasons for the removal of older editions from support.
On a good note, however, we are working on the issues with downloading for those older versions, if they have not already been sorted (it may take 24 hours for any fixes to fully take effect). This should include TRS2004 as well.
Thank you
Trainz Classics 1&2 The Forgotten Edition
For those of you who have older machines laptops, or otherwise won't run 2009/10, but have Tc 1&2, you should give it a try.
My experience has been; better frame rates than all other editions, CmP performs better than 2006. I have imported more than 20 routes into TC 1&2 and all have performed well.
The only problem has been "built in" objects from other seditions but this can easily be overcome.
Cheers.
For those of you who have older machines laptops, or otherwise won't run 2009/10, but have Tc 1&2, you should give it a try.
My experience has been; better frame rates than all other editions, CmP performs better than 2006. I have imported more than 20 routes into TC 1&2 and all have performed well.
The only problem has been "built in" objects from other seditions but this can easily be overcome.
Cheers.
cascaderailroad
New member
I am waiting until September to see what exactly happens to all the great TRS2006 content.
If I see marked improvements in TS10, I am prepared to purchase it, and a lifetime FCT before Christmas.
What computer specs do you need to run TS10 ?
I presently have Vista OS with 3Gb Ram, a 500Gb Hard Drive, and Nividia 8500 video card. Will it run TS10 ?
And will a quality $700, Windows 7, off the shelf, factory laptop, run TS10 ?
If I see marked improvements in TS10, I am prepared to purchase it, and a lifetime FCT before Christmas.
What computer specs do you need to run TS10 ?
I presently have Vista OS with 3Gb Ram, a 500Gb Hard Drive, and Nividia 8500 video card. Will it run TS10 ?
And will a quality $700, Windows 7, off the shelf, factory laptop, run TS10 ?
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Zec, a question.
How do we know that all this fuss isn't just a way for Auran to profit from us, by scaring us into buying the latest Trainz version? If Auran says that TRS2004 and TRS2006 users can't use the DLS, the users panic, an will probably try to get the newest version of Trainz (TRS2009/TRS2010) - Auran gets more money.
Heres the maths-
TRS2004 & TRS2006 users + "remove TS2004 & TRS2006 from DLS" = more money for Auran
How do we know that all this fuss isn't just a way for Auran to profit from us, by scaring us into buying the latest Trainz version? If Auran says that TRS2004 and TRS2006 users can't use the DLS, the users panic, an will probably try to get the newest version of Trainz (TRS2009/TRS2010) - Auran gets more money.
Heres the maths-
TRS2004 & TRS2006 users + "remove TS2004 & TRS2006 from DLS" = more money for Auran
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You also have the latest video drivers, right? I must have a secret CRAY cause my frame rates in TS2010 are way better than that. Amazing how machine sensitive this game appears to be.
You also have the latest video drivers, right? I must have a secret CRAY cause my frame rates in TS2010 are way better than that. Amazing how machine sensitive this game appears to be.
The latest ones that Dell Support offer, so not the latest Nvidia drivers (which were flawed anyway) but the best I can get.
IsambardKingdomBrunel
Joined June 2001
Why investigate it, it`s a good thing.
The performance is far better in TS2010 than TRS2006 on the same hardware.
Try using the latest NVIDIA drivers, like i have been doing since they were released.
With no problems.
TRS2004 & 2006 are old technology compared to TS2010.
Don't expect me to elaborate on that statement.
As a beta tester i value that privilege .
IKB.
After reading Zec`s recent thread it apears that the decision not to support the older versions of Trainz is final.
So it is now up to all of us to decide what is best for us.
Lets hope that those that stay will be happy with 2009/10 and those that go have enough downloaded content to play with 2004/06 for a long time to come.
Thats all
Peter:wave:
So it is now up to all of us to decide what is best for us.
Lets hope that those that stay will be happy with 2009/10 and those that go have enough downloaded content to play with 2004/06 for a long time to come.
Thats all
Peter:wave:
You were probably using 'MS' versions of the nvidia drivers - that have no OpenGL acceleration. That you didn't see a massive loss of frame rate in 2006 too, is a mystery though.
amigacooke
Well-known member
IsambardKingdomBrunel
Joined June 2001
Good man Vern, pleased to hear you are having better luck.
Perhaps now you can dump that RailFail rubbish.
cheers,
Mike.
Perhaps now you can dump that RailFail rubbish.
cheers,
Mike.
mezzoprezzo
Content appreciator
Hello Zec,
Thank you for explaining Auran’s position.
We can now make a better informed, rather than speculative, decision on which direction to go.
Regards,
Casper
Thank you for explaining Auran’s position.
We can now make a better informed, rather than speculative, decision on which direction to go.
Regards,
Casper
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