Forest_Runner
Well-known member
I get 124K items.
Fair number of assets to d/l using your FCT, eh??
Fair number of assets to d/l using your FCT, eh??
Campaign to retain full DLS for TRS2004/06
- Thread starter mezzoprezzo
- Start date
- Status
I guess it is all in the perception of the meaning. My perception of support for a product is totally different than yours. Hosting isn't support in my view.
As I said earlier, Turbosquid hosts and distributes gmax but they don't support it. Various other websites that allow uploads of software demos and such don't support those either. These sites refer you to the software creator for support, if they reply to you at all. Even though they host it and redistribute it. Hypothetically speaking. You write a piece of software and ask me to host and distribute it. I agree to do so. This by no means says that I support that software.
What it boils down to is that people need to accept the decison made by the folks at Auran. They need to face the fact that if they want to continue to create content for 04/06, then they will need to have it hosted somewhere else. Many of you want them to start creating for 09/10 exclusively. Truth is, it isn't going to happen. We'll all just have to accept the fact that when we need content, we are going to have to scour countless other sites for it. No matter what you (people in general) say, it isn't going to change their minds. Mine either for that matter. I only have 09 on my machine but I'm still creating with an old build number. What I do make works correctly in native mode though.
nope, Native mode only over here. very smooth performance too.
Red_Rattler
Since 09 May 2003
At Auran / No, I DON'T support paying for downloads of earlier versions
I WAS going to support - until I read all the post, and DO NOT count this as a vote.
For Auran staff members
Before I comment any further, people are commenting about how earlier versions will be forced to use a first class ticket no matter what size is to be downloaded.
I ask that Auran staff only provide a link to their announcements on THIS site only (not on any other site) where it states that people downloading earlier versions will have to buy a first class ticket to use Auran's download station?
I WAS going to support - until I read all the post, and DO NOT count this as a vote.
For Auran staff members
Before I comment any further, people are commenting about how earlier versions will be forced to use a first class ticket no matter what size is to be downloaded.
I ask that Auran staff only provide a link to their announcements on THIS site only (not on any other site) where it states that people downloading earlier versions will have to buy a first class ticket to use Auran's download station?
It all seems weird to me that people resist change..I moved to 2010 and have no problems with it...In anycase are all the nasayers going to complain to Microsoft when they stop supporting XP..if they haven't already done so..we are all going to have to upgrade our computers some time,just to run Windows ..just an old eighty year olds thought..L
jadebullet
might be back?
Microsoft has already cut support for XP.
But people didn't complain, and there is a good reason for this, the cutting off of support didn't really affect them. Now, what would happen if XP relied on a program in order to download other programs for your computer. They were in an area of the internet controlled by Microsoft. Then Microsoft realized that their sales for Vista weren't doing so well, so they announced that in addition to cutting off support for XP, XP users wouldn't have access to the program cluster.
Sure, they wouldn't have to update, but what good is an operating system without new programs.
Just my 2 cents.
But people didn't complain, and there is a good reason for this, the cutting off of support didn't really affect them. Now, what would happen if XP relied on a program in order to download other programs for your computer. They were in an area of the internet controlled by Microsoft. Then Microsoft realized that their sales for Vista weren't doing so well, so they announced that in addition to cutting off support for XP, XP users wouldn't have access to the program cluster.
Sure, they wouldn't have to update, but what good is an operating system without new programs.
Just my 2 cents.
Boobless_ed
Will this do?
Whoops, didn't post this properly! Edited out.
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Forest_Runner
Well-known member
A naive statement. Some users have no choice.
You've quoted YOU have moved on to TS2010 and YOU have had no problems with it. I'm so bloody happy for YOU that YOU are not experiencing problems. This scenario is hardly applicable to everybody, as evidenced by TS2010 Forum.
I'd love to run it... but even the default sessions stutter and freeze in Native mode. This has progressively deteriorated with the addition of each patch/update, and I can do sweet FA about it. But that's ME.
Gandalf0444
FVRR member
Actually if you really want to get technical XP still has support until 4/8/2014. Although it does not get as much "help" from Microsoft as the newest operating systems it still receives critical updates that are needed to fix security loopholes etc. Only the Mainstream Support has ended. Extended Support will last until the date mentioned earlier. Microsoft will have supported XP for 13 or so years (2001-2014 pending your version of XP, Home, Professional, Media Center, and Professional 64 bit.)
Microsoft actually has already pushed these dates back once with the flop of Vista. If Windows 7 was as big a flop as Vista was then there would have been a possibility for them to push those dates back even further. Making Microsoft have to totally rethink it's strategy.
So if Auran was anything like Microsoft they would still "support" 06 and 04 for a few more years. Of course slowly phasing it out would be better then just cutting everything in 1 day.
cascaderailroad
New member
So what so they would have two banks of servers...no big deal !
We all know Exactly Why Auran is unsupporting 04/06...it is a pemeditated plot to force All Of Us to go out and buy a Lifetime FCT, and TS10.
It is not the expence of supporting 04/06...But it is greed for money that is spuring Auran's decision. I agree that they do need to make money to stay in business. but from what I have seen on TS10 it is still lame, and has no real improvements, and it was a hastily drawn up program, released far before it was ready and tested. And asside from, the totally barfy Speedtrees, shadows, detailed track, and 5m cutting grid...TS10 is another carpy Vista (OS)...bloated.
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jadebullet
might be back?
Agreed...........
Not being privy to any of Aurans discussions I would not have a clue as to why they are doing anything, so you can stop assuming that everyone knows everthing and just state that you are the know it all.
Nobody is forcing myself, and I would assume the vast majority here, to buy anything, again you are so full of self importance that you assume everyone is the same as you.
Auran are free to do what they will, and all of us are free to do what we will, and nobody needs people full of self importance to keep on ramming their own opinions down our collective throats.
Cheers David
Edit:- Forgot the topic for a moment
I support keeping the dls open for 04/06 content for FCT holders and later version purchasers, also to be able to upload 04/06 content (provided it passes the 09/10 error checks).
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Boobless_ed
Will this do?
Sorry, but I do not support this at all.
The cost of data storage which Auran has to pay to have all of the content on the download station must be staggering. Quite honestly, I have serious doubts that the first class tickets would even come close to covering the cost of hosting and bandwidth.
We all know Auran aren't anywhere near as financially well off because of the Fury debacle.
Do we even know if Auran even have the money to support the old download station content and old versions of Trainz? Who knows, perhaps they've had to borrow incredible amounts in loans simply to support all of this. What if Auran ended up supporting all of this age-old content and editions of Trainz and were forced into bankruptcy? What would we do then? It could very well be a possibility considering the amount of money the aren't making, and the fact that this is happening is a strong indication that they simply aren't making enough money.
Auran lacking the money to stay in business would much worse than their discontinuation of this support, and I doubt that anybody would be happy with Trainz disappearing forever due to the poor financial state of Auran right now!
Those who are making an issue of this recent move by Auran will probably slap themselves if they succeed in convincing Auran to continue support for all of the old content and Trainz editions, and will probably feel like right fools if this happens.
Trainz is right now using a skeleton crew of developers, and most of them not only do the programming, but also bug fixing, graphics design and many other tasks. Only about six people or so (forget exactly). You can certainly take this lack of developers as a strong indication that they barely have enough money to continue supporting Trainz.
If Auran stops hosting so much old download station content and supporting older versions of Trainz, the money saved will quite probably enable them to hire more employees and stop having to have the current Trainz team from having to work on so many different tasks. A good game studio requires dedicated programmers, dedicated graphic artists, and some professional independent beta testers. The Trainz team is doing the best they can right now with what cards they've been dealt, and that's most likely why the recent versions have been a buggy and seem rushed. They simply don't have a choice right now.
Quite honestly, I think that much of the oldest content on the DLS (Remember that the Trainz 1.3 was released in 2002) is just dragging the game down, most of it looks like it was designed for a 3D game engine made during the late twentieth century, and is still being used in many recently uploaded routes.
All of this old content is most likely putting customers off buying the game when they look at screen shots when choosing between RailWorks and the Trainz games. Probably costing Auran thousands in sales, and probably millions of dollars. I know with complete certainty that if I had never been using Trainz since the first version and wanted to introduce myself to the world of train simulations for the first time, I would definitely chose Railworks over Trainz. And I'd take a guess - most likely entirely accurate - that thousands more people introducing themselves to train sims now are
doing exactly that. Choosing RailWorks over Trainz. RailWorks simply looks more professional and up to date right now. But I am keeping in mind that it is developed from scratch much more recently and with a much higher budget, and also the fact that some of my comparisons to RailWorks are perhaps slightly unfair, but that's still my opinion.
Even most routes made for TS2010 are still using ground textures which are 128x128... From what I recall, that was the maximum texture size in Quake 1, which was released in 1996! Quake 1 was even made to run in MSDOS! Admittedly it was restricted to a 256 colour palette, and this is an unfair comparison as Quake never had to bother about serious physics and was of course a much simpler game. But if one were to play the original Quake 1 these days without mods, the first reaction one would get is that it looks incredibly ugly compared to games released in 2010. And people probably get a similar reaction when they first see Trainz.
I think we've had a good enough run with a game supporting such an amazingly huge amount of content that's been around for eight or nine years! How many games can you think of which has supported content for so long? None. None at all. I would guess that there is probably well over several terabytes of content on the download station. As I said before, having a company hosting that much content and thousands of downloads every day for eight or nine years ( ! ) must cost Auran a fortune.
Continued in next post, as my whole rant goes well over the 10,000 character limit per post!
The cost of data storage which Auran has to pay to have all of the content on the download station must be staggering. Quite honestly, I have serious doubts that the first class tickets would even come close to covering the cost of hosting and bandwidth.
We all know Auran aren't anywhere near as financially well off because of the Fury debacle.
Do we even know if Auran even have the money to support the old download station content and old versions of Trainz? Who knows, perhaps they've had to borrow incredible amounts in loans simply to support all of this. What if Auran ended up supporting all of this age-old content and editions of Trainz and were forced into bankruptcy? What would we do then? It could very well be a possibility considering the amount of money the aren't making, and the fact that this is happening is a strong indication that they simply aren't making enough money.
Auran lacking the money to stay in business would much worse than their discontinuation of this support, and I doubt that anybody would be happy with Trainz disappearing forever due to the poor financial state of Auran right now!
Those who are making an issue of this recent move by Auran will probably slap themselves if they succeed in convincing Auran to continue support for all of the old content and Trainz editions, and will probably feel like right fools if this happens.
Trainz is right now using a skeleton crew of developers, and most of them not only do the programming, but also bug fixing, graphics design and many other tasks. Only about six people or so (forget exactly). You can certainly take this lack of developers as a strong indication that they barely have enough money to continue supporting Trainz.
If Auran stops hosting so much old download station content and supporting older versions of Trainz, the money saved will quite probably enable them to hire more employees and stop having to have the current Trainz team from having to work on so many different tasks. A good game studio requires dedicated programmers, dedicated graphic artists, and some professional independent beta testers. The Trainz team is doing the best they can right now with what cards they've been dealt, and that's most likely why the recent versions have been a buggy and seem rushed. They simply don't have a choice right now.
Quite honestly, I think that much of the oldest content on the DLS (Remember that the Trainz 1.3 was released in 2002) is just dragging the game down, most of it looks like it was designed for a 3D game engine made during the late twentieth century, and is still being used in many recently uploaded routes.
All of this old content is most likely putting customers off buying the game when they look at screen shots when choosing between RailWorks and the Trainz games. Probably costing Auran thousands in sales, and probably millions of dollars. I know with complete certainty that if I had never been using Trainz since the first version and wanted to introduce myself to the world of train simulations for the first time, I would definitely chose Railworks over Trainz. And I'd take a guess - most likely entirely accurate - that thousands more people introducing themselves to train sims now are
doing exactly that. Choosing RailWorks over Trainz. RailWorks simply looks more professional and up to date right now. But I am keeping in mind that it is developed from scratch much more recently and with a much higher budget, and also the fact that some of my comparisons to RailWorks are perhaps slightly unfair, but that's still my opinion.
Even most routes made for TS2010 are still using ground textures which are 128x128... From what I recall, that was the maximum texture size in Quake 1, which was released in 1996! Quake 1 was even made to run in MSDOS! Admittedly it was restricted to a 256 colour palette, and this is an unfair comparison as Quake never had to bother about serious physics and was of course a much simpler game. But if one were to play the original Quake 1 these days without mods, the first reaction one would get is that it looks incredibly ugly compared to games released in 2010. And people probably get a similar reaction when they first see Trainz.
I think we've had a good enough run with a game supporting such an amazingly huge amount of content that's been around for eight or nine years! How many games can you think of which has supported content for so long? None. None at all. I would guess that there is probably well over several terabytes of content on the download station. As I said before, having a company hosting that much content and thousands of downloads every day for eight or nine years ( ! ) must cost Auran a fortune.
Continued in next post, as my whole rant goes well over the 10,000 character limit per post!
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Boobless_ed
Will this do?
Continued from my last post:
They will finally be able to release much less buggy editions of Trainz, and we'll actually start to see routes and content which actually look like a modern game! Quite honestly, even the most average RailWorks routes made by third parties look far better than even most TS2010 routes due to Railworks/Rail Simulator even using just default content in Rail Simulator and Railworks! That's including the routes which shipped with TS2010. Don't get me wrong, they're great routes, but just don't look at all modern.
It's only the latest two versions of Trainz which actually support features (albeit currently buggy) representative of modern games.
I do admit that the hard work of the creators of routes who have made so many great routes and so much content for the Trainz platform is incredible and never ceases to amaze me. I have ultimate respect for each and every one of them, but they're basically forced to use such old content, as that's mostly what the download station consists of.
Auran are finally trying to convince people to use the new features and educate people on better techniques for optimal performance twined with the best methods of creating far more realistic looking content. But for a large part this effort seems to be ignored - unfortunately, it seems a high proportion of people seem to be so stubborn as to not create any content for TS2009 and TS2010. Fair enough in a way, as both versions are rather buggy (as I keep mentioning), some old content won't work without updates or fixes which quite often the end user has to fix (another huge turn off for new inductees to the wonderful worldwide addictive cult of Trainz!), and some things just refuse to work.
But TS2009 and TS2010 were made with a ridiculously small amount of developers and financial woes, which were released with significant issues, which has been huge contributing factor to many people ignoring the recent two sims and sticking with TRS04, TRS06 and TC3. I must say though, TC3 is wonderful and has one of the finest routes ever made for Trainz. The only thing holding it back from many new customers are perhaps the 128x128 ground textures, and the fact that many have to purchase TRS06 to utilise the content for many routes created for TC3.
It's a shame that people aren't jumping on the bandwagon early and not creating high quality content with all of the new features right now. Just think about the next versions of Trainz when they're able to clear a lot of old stuff, possibly include new professional content (a possible indication that they're wanting to add content which isn't plucked from the community is the addition of SpeedTrees, although I could be wrong with that) and have the money to have much less buggy features, include more requested features, and generally create some really awesome editions in the future.
We'll be kicking ourselves for not creating content using new features early. If more content creators use the newer features recently introduced now, it will add so much to the future editions. More people should realise and embrace this, and perhaps some have (again fairly so) have lacked the foresight that new editions will eventually iron out the issues, with bugs and such in TS2009 and TS2010 creating a rather cynical view of creation.
With Auran saving so much money in doing this, we're really going to see some amazing things for the future of Trainz, and it's a pity that a lot of people don't seem to consider that notion.
Imagine if say, the Kings Cross route had 1024x1024 ground textures and more content more appropriate for 2010... This could have happened if Auran did this culling much earlier. It would have made this great route easily compete with the RailWorks Newcastle to York route (closest comparison I can make between Rail Simulator/RailWorks and TS2010), and probably would have looked much better than the Rail Simulator/Railworks route!
Auran are finally starting to support modern graphics capabilities and encouraging better techniques for content creation. And we're complaining? Most likely, route creators who are still about will have all of the content they used for their own routes, and will be able to slowly replace the old content as more comes available and release updated versions which will most likely make the routes look spectacular, even if some content might take a bit of time to come into being.
I can understand the sentimentality of people wanting to keep all of their old routes and have their preference for say, TRS2004 and TRS2006 (and some people are still using UTC as their preferred edition!), but we need to move on. Personally, there are so many routes and locos that I love that were made for TRS2004 and TRS2006, but both games have many bugs and problems, as well as issues such as the two-chuff sound for those editions, and rather unrealistic physics. I could probably make a list a few dozen page listing faults, bugs, and other issues with ease.
It'll take a while for the content creators to catch up with all of the new features, but when we do, Trainz will easily manage to look better than RailWorks, have superior sounds and physics (again, something that RailWorks has over the Trainz platform), but the results will be spectacular in a year or two. The RailWorks platform is being used to by a third party to create a simulator of the Glasgow Airport line that's being made. Each rendition of Trainz has never once been commissioned by a company wanting to create a realistic simulation of a fully detailed route.
I'm certain that in a short while after the Trainz platform fully modernises itself and the newer features mature, it will definitely spike the interests of things like the Glasgow Airport connection for RailWorks, and other companies wanting a realistic rendition of a route for something such as real world loco driver training.
Auran will almost definitely ship many more copies of a game which actually looks modern, and will bring in many new content creators who are used to creating content for modern game engines. The RailWorks community seems to be producing extremely high quality third party content which looks amazing and at an ever increasing pace. The same will certainly happen for Trainz, even if many of the current content creators stop making content and, in a rather silly decision, possibly even leave the community out of a ridiculous protest of sorts.
Again with another point regarding the money from such a move, is that perhaps Auran might hire some professional developers to create routes using modern techniques with content that we'll all be able to use in our routes.
Why do you think that TS2009 and TS2010 has the content replacement feature? Think a bit about it. It's most likely been added so that the great old routes will be able to replace content which is old, ugly, and is probably there simply for the preparations Auran have been making in order to finally actually compete with modern simulators of all kinds.
As much as I do love so many old routes (as I previously mentioned), I'd much rather see those routes with content which actually does justice to them, and will make them look incredible. Personally, I find so much of the old content used to be a complete eyesore, and actually puts me off playing the game for more than fifteen-odd minutes...
Admittedly, TS2009 and TS2010 are still rather buggy, but this is most likely because they simply haven't had the money to get professional beta testers, nor the man power to fix those editions, as this act of dropping support for hasn't happened yet. But they have set the basis for a really great modern Train Simulator with the features introduced, despite the bugs.
I think it's about bloody time this happened, and Auran probably should have done this years ago. Unfortunately, this hasn't happened because of the obvious community backlash which would have occurred, and is occurring now with this announcement.
When this does occur, I'm sure that customer support will be enhanced, and Auran will have the ability to help out with creators and post more on the forums like the days of old, before Fury and the huge forum loss from a few years back.
If we want the Trainz platform to ever progress seriously and move the game into the twenty-first century propper and compete with the likes of RailWorks, this move is completely essential. And if it doesn't happen, then there's the lingering possibility that RailWorks might end up as the only supported railway simulator.
It'll also be great to have a cleaned up Download Station, and I wonder (perhaps realistically) if they may completely revamp the whole thing after a good cleaning.
The announcement that they are finally going to drop support for old versions and old download station content is absolutely essential for the Trainz platform to compete in this market, and equally essential for the continuation of the series.
NB - I will also start a new topic with this same thread to get more discussion on these opinions, as I'm sure that posting this in this topic will probably end up with many people ignoring these notions as this topic is about keeping the support for old versions.
They will finally be able to release much less buggy editions of Trainz, and we'll actually start to see routes and content which actually look like a modern game! Quite honestly, even the most average RailWorks routes made by third parties look far better than even most TS2010 routes due to Railworks/Rail Simulator even using just default content in Rail Simulator and Railworks! That's including the routes which shipped with TS2010. Don't get me wrong, they're great routes, but just don't look at all modern.
It's only the latest two versions of Trainz which actually support features (albeit currently buggy) representative of modern games.
I do admit that the hard work of the creators of routes who have made so many great routes and so much content for the Trainz platform is incredible and never ceases to amaze me. I have ultimate respect for each and every one of them, but they're basically forced to use such old content, as that's mostly what the download station consists of.
Auran are finally trying to convince people to use the new features and educate people on better techniques for optimal performance twined with the best methods of creating far more realistic looking content. But for a large part this effort seems to be ignored - unfortunately, it seems a high proportion of people seem to be so stubborn as to not create any content for TS2009 and TS2010. Fair enough in a way, as both versions are rather buggy (as I keep mentioning), some old content won't work without updates or fixes which quite often the end user has to fix (another huge turn off for new inductees to the wonderful worldwide addictive cult of Trainz!), and some things just refuse to work.
But TS2009 and TS2010 were made with a ridiculously small amount of developers and financial woes, which were released with significant issues, which has been huge contributing factor to many people ignoring the recent two sims and sticking with TRS04, TRS06 and TC3. I must say though, TC3 is wonderful and has one of the finest routes ever made for Trainz. The only thing holding it back from many new customers are perhaps the 128x128 ground textures, and the fact that many have to purchase TRS06 to utilise the content for many routes created for TC3.
It's a shame that people aren't jumping on the bandwagon early and not creating high quality content with all of the new features right now. Just think about the next versions of Trainz when they're able to clear a lot of old stuff, possibly include new professional content (a possible indication that they're wanting to add content which isn't plucked from the community is the addition of SpeedTrees, although I could be wrong with that) and have the money to have much less buggy features, include more requested features, and generally create some really awesome editions in the future.
We'll be kicking ourselves for not creating content using new features early. If more content creators use the newer features recently introduced now, it will add so much to the future editions. More people should realise and embrace this, and perhaps some have (again fairly so) have lacked the foresight that new editions will eventually iron out the issues, with bugs and such in TS2009 and TS2010 creating a rather cynical view of creation.
With Auran saving so much money in doing this, we're really going to see some amazing things for the future of Trainz, and it's a pity that a lot of people don't seem to consider that notion.
Imagine if say, the Kings Cross route had 1024x1024 ground textures and more content more appropriate for 2010... This could have happened if Auran did this culling much earlier. It would have made this great route easily compete with the RailWorks Newcastle to York route (closest comparison I can make between Rail Simulator/RailWorks and TS2010), and probably would have looked much better than the Rail Simulator/Railworks route!
Auran are finally starting to support modern graphics capabilities and encouraging better techniques for content creation. And we're complaining? Most likely, route creators who are still about will have all of the content they used for their own routes, and will be able to slowly replace the old content as more comes available and release updated versions which will most likely make the routes look spectacular, even if some content might take a bit of time to come into being.
I can understand the sentimentality of people wanting to keep all of their old routes and have their preference for say, TRS2004 and TRS2006 (and some people are still using UTC as their preferred edition!), but we need to move on. Personally, there are so many routes and locos that I love that were made for TRS2004 and TRS2006, but both games have many bugs and problems, as well as issues such as the two-chuff sound for those editions, and rather unrealistic physics. I could probably make a list a few dozen page listing faults, bugs, and other issues with ease.
It'll take a while for the content creators to catch up with all of the new features, but when we do, Trainz will easily manage to look better than RailWorks, have superior sounds and physics (again, something that RailWorks has over the Trainz platform), but the results will be spectacular in a year or two. The RailWorks platform is being used to by a third party to create a simulator of the Glasgow Airport line that's being made. Each rendition of Trainz has never once been commissioned by a company wanting to create a realistic simulation of a fully detailed route.
I'm certain that in a short while after the Trainz platform fully modernises itself and the newer features mature, it will definitely spike the interests of things like the Glasgow Airport connection for RailWorks, and other companies wanting a realistic rendition of a route for something such as real world loco driver training.
Auran will almost definitely ship many more copies of a game which actually looks modern, and will bring in many new content creators who are used to creating content for modern game engines. The RailWorks community seems to be producing extremely high quality third party content which looks amazing and at an ever increasing pace. The same will certainly happen for Trainz, even if many of the current content creators stop making content and, in a rather silly decision, possibly even leave the community out of a ridiculous protest of sorts.
Again with another point regarding the money from such a move, is that perhaps Auran might hire some professional developers to create routes using modern techniques with content that we'll all be able to use in our routes.
Why do you think that TS2009 and TS2010 has the content replacement feature? Think a bit about it. It's most likely been added so that the great old routes will be able to replace content which is old, ugly, and is probably there simply for the preparations Auran have been making in order to finally actually compete with modern simulators of all kinds.
As much as I do love so many old routes (as I previously mentioned), I'd much rather see those routes with content which actually does justice to them, and will make them look incredible. Personally, I find so much of the old content used to be a complete eyesore, and actually puts me off playing the game for more than fifteen-odd minutes...
Admittedly, TS2009 and TS2010 are still rather buggy, but this is most likely because they simply haven't had the money to get professional beta testers, nor the man power to fix those editions, as this act of dropping support for hasn't happened yet. But they have set the basis for a really great modern Train Simulator with the features introduced, despite the bugs.
I think it's about bloody time this happened, and Auran probably should have done this years ago. Unfortunately, this hasn't happened because of the obvious community backlash which would have occurred, and is occurring now with this announcement.
When this does occur, I'm sure that customer support will be enhanced, and Auran will have the ability to help out with creators and post more on the forums like the days of old, before Fury and the huge forum loss from a few years back.
If we want the Trainz platform to ever progress seriously and move the game into the twenty-first century propper and compete with the likes of RailWorks, this move is completely essential. And if it doesn't happen, then there's the lingering possibility that RailWorks might end up as the only supported railway simulator.
It'll also be great to have a cleaned up Download Station, and I wonder (perhaps realistically) if they may completely revamp the whole thing after a good cleaning.
The announcement that they are finally going to drop support for old versions and old download station content is absolutely essential for the Trainz platform to compete in this market, and equally essential for the continuation of the series.
NB - I will also start a new topic with this same thread to get more discussion on these opinions, as I'm sure that posting this in this topic will probably end up with many people ignoring these notions as this topic is about keeping the support for old versions.
Auran has the figures of how much bandwidth $$$$ will be used for the DLS and could work out an appropriate amount for the FCT to cover this with some profit for them as well, if that amount is to much for most people then they would just have to scrap the idea, personally I am not really bothered which way it ends up, its a game, life will not end without it, but if the option of using the FCT is there why not give it a go ?
Cheers David
Cheers David
BLACKWATCH
Mechanical Engineer
So am I to understand that ALL my TRS2004 downloads WILL work in 'Native Mode' with TS2010 ?
johnwhelan
You are a credit to the game for taking the trouble to upgrade your creations for TS2010, but sadly you are one of the few, not many creators have done this.
Yes my machine is running a core 2 duo cpu, TRS2004 may not use it all, but other programs I use do.
I cannot let you know if any of your content will not run 'Native Mode', as I have not bought TS2010, I will not buy it until I am sure it will run BETTER than TRS2004 & has a good amount of content that will run in 'Native', which includes most of the loco's I have in TRS2004.
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Boobless_ed
Will this do?
I think my points about old content and the game generally looking like it's from the late 1990s with much of the older content is valid, provided Auran get a relatively bug free version of Trainz out, and more higher res content from the features that TS2009 and TS2010 as well as and routes which can finally use exclusively high quality assets using said features. It'll certainly move more copies, get Auran money to ideally make a less buggy version for the next edition. The more modern Trainz looks, the more people will join our community. Currently, if someone buys a copy of TS2010 and tries to download assets, they're going to be completely turned off buy the amount of errors and having to learn how to fix old broken content. It really takes a certain amount of enthusiastic nerdiness for a any newcomer to Trainz. Of course, many of the folk that have been around since the start of the series such as myself understand all of this, as we've been able to adapt to the evolution of changes. But much old content is broken in recent versions for good and fair reasons, and as I said, most people who purchase a recent version of the Trainz series will be completely frustrated and baffled by the errors, and probably won't actually continue using Trainz.
As I said, if I saw shots of routes when buying a train sim if I'd never played one before, with the old - much of which is well over five years and still used in new routes - content in new editions of trainz, I'd surely go straight for RailWorks.
Although currently quite buggy, TS2009 and TS2010 have the feature set which enables one to make some amazing content with incredible realism. Finally. If we can get a version of Trainz which fixes the bugs and has routes using the new features available, it'd easily look better than RailWorks/Rail Simulator and have the potential to eventually have better physics and such, especially if Auran concentrate more on the more recent additions to the series.
Support for old content also takes time and Maintaining the racks, keeping them online, and supporting old versions of trainz takes time, working hours and money. And if they aren't making a profit on FCTs, they wouldn't kill them entirely, as it's still a bit of money. I don't know why Auran would need money just for the sake of greed. It'd give them the chance to finally be able to get some professional testers in, not have to rush the product because they need the money (again from the Fury rubbish) and quite frankly, I see no reason why they would knowingly send out a rushed project if they concentrate on the more recent additions. And at least they're supporting it and trying to kill the bugs with the frequent service packs and updates.
It also baffles me that people think that this is a scam of some sort. Why? It just makes no sense at all.
The amount of bandwidth used by all the download station content must be enormous, and ridiculously expensive.
Quite frankly, I'm sick of running routes no matter how well constructed that look like they're from the late 1990s... They deserve better. So many great routes out there would really benefit from TS2010s capabilities.
Many people think TS2010 is rubbish, but Auran finally laid the groundwork for the Trainz series to finally have the capability of a modern game. The 5m grid is fantastic, detailed track is great (about time, now just gotta wait until they make an easy way to have detailed points/switches...) the performance boost is fantastic. They're finally adding features which many people have desired for a long time. I'd also much rather see less routes but of much higher quality using much better designed assets (which they're trying to encourage creators to make by providing tips on how to make better performing objects and such.
If you don't like SpeedTrees, don't use them. Replace asset tool. Problem solved.
Aside from the SpeedTree issues, I actually quite like TS2010. And really, there's nothing stopping people from uploading assets again (of course inconvenient and probably slow) with the few modifications needed for 2010. But I'd much rather see them concentrate on one product and get it good.
The difference between the added functionality of TS2009 compared to TRS2006 (And even TC3, which is fantastic in its own right) is phenominal. We can finally have ground textures which can have a resolution that fits in with detailed and well made scenery items, nice looking track, et al. Previous versions of Trainz just looked horrid with the 128x128 ground textures and an increasing quality and resolution of scenery assets and such. One rule which basically all professional 3D games follow is that all parts of the game should be able to have a consistent texture resolution. Quite simply, until TS2009, the Trainz series has been one of the few 3D games which hasn't followed that rule. Try out just about every 3D game. Even old ones. Even Quake 1! You'll notice that the 3D models and maps/levels have texture resolutions which are 'equal', and no sepperate part of any 3D game will stand out as looking higher or lower res than any other.
Although there are quite a lot of bugs, TS2009 and TS2010 are huge improvements over TRS2006. Much of that is also in the core of the game, considering the amazing performance boost over TRS2006. If Auran concentrate on fewer products, we'll finally see the game evolve into a truely modern game. If Auran actually had the cash to use professional beta testers rather than people in the community who are more interested in getting new things to play with, as well as the good people in the community who do report bugs, but perhaps don't have real knowledge of how to really try to 'break' a feature as a more experienced (paid or unpaid) beta tester would do, we'd also have far fewer bugs.
I'd much rather see old low res content made for UTC, TRS2004 and TRS2006 be unsupported and have the game concentrate on using modern assets which the game finally supports which are finally able to make the game look good and consistent with more modern games from 2010.
As much as I appreciate the hard work that many content creators put into assets for older versions of Trainz - many of which were the best that could be made for those old versions - it's time to move on.
Trainz finally is getting the ability to be a truely modern game. Why shouldn't we embrace this? TRS2006 and TRS2004 had horrid physics, and some ridiculous limitations.
And if the RailWorks/RailSimulator community can create high quality assets (Nearly all of the third party assets which I've seen uploaded are of an extremely professional standard) then why can't we?
I think many people are frustrated that they'll have to learn new techniques for making content. Many people aren't willing to learm. Fair enough. They don't have to if don't want to. If we can finally get well designed content such as what the RailWorks/RailSimulator community are making, then we'll likely get many new folk joining our community to create higher quality assets designed to look fantastic and have great performance, then we can finally have Trainz enter the 21st century. And about time, I think.
On the note of performance of assets (mostly scenery objects in this example) it's mentioned that every texture added to an object adds (can't remember the figure exactly) the equivalent of ~300 or so polys. For a large part, most content on the download station seems to use a ridiculous amount of textures. Which drains the performance of all versions of Trainz.
Quite simply, I think it's time to move on. Focus on quality assets, and finally - as I mentioned before - let the Trainz series enter the 21st century. The older versions of Trainz have rubbish performance, and much of the older content is poorly designed. Most content creators are hobbyists, and I completely understand that so many assets aren't designed to a more 'professional' standard, and my respect for every content creator no matter what the quality of their assets are has never diminished, and I greatly appreciate the work that everyone has done.
Quite frankly, I'm sick of Trainz seeming like a game from the 1990s.
As I said, if I saw shots of routes when buying a train sim if I'd never played one before, with the old - much of which is well over five years and still used in new routes - content in new editions of trainz, I'd surely go straight for RailWorks.
Although currently quite buggy, TS2009 and TS2010 have the feature set which enables one to make some amazing content with incredible realism. Finally. If we can get a version of Trainz which fixes the bugs and has routes using the new features available, it'd easily look better than RailWorks/Rail Simulator and have the potential to eventually have better physics and such, especially if Auran concentrate more on the more recent additions to the series.
Support for old content also takes time and Maintaining the racks, keeping them online, and supporting old versions of trainz takes time, working hours and money. And if they aren't making a profit on FCTs, they wouldn't kill them entirely, as it's still a bit of money. I don't know why Auran would need money just for the sake of greed. It'd give them the chance to finally be able to get some professional testers in, not have to rush the product because they need the money (again from the Fury rubbish) and quite frankly, I see no reason why they would knowingly send out a rushed project if they concentrate on the more recent additions. And at least they're supporting it and trying to kill the bugs with the frequent service packs and updates.
It also baffles me that people think that this is a scam of some sort. Why? It just makes no sense at all.
The amount of bandwidth used by all the download station content must be enormous, and ridiculously expensive.
Quite frankly, I'm sick of running routes no matter how well constructed that look like they're from the late 1990s... They deserve better. So many great routes out there would really benefit from TS2010s capabilities.
Many people think TS2010 is rubbish, but Auran finally laid the groundwork for the Trainz series to finally have the capability of a modern game. The 5m grid is fantastic, detailed track is great (about time, now just gotta wait until they make an easy way to have detailed points/switches...) the performance boost is fantastic. They're finally adding features which many people have desired for a long time. I'd also much rather see less routes but of much higher quality using much better designed assets (which they're trying to encourage creators to make by providing tips on how to make better performing objects and such.
If you don't like SpeedTrees, don't use them. Replace asset tool. Problem solved.
Aside from the SpeedTree issues, I actually quite like TS2010. And really, there's nothing stopping people from uploading assets again (of course inconvenient and probably slow) with the few modifications needed for 2010. But I'd much rather see them concentrate on one product and get it good.
The difference between the added functionality of TS2009 compared to TRS2006 (And even TC3, which is fantastic in its own right) is phenominal. We can finally have ground textures which can have a resolution that fits in with detailed and well made scenery items, nice looking track, et al. Previous versions of Trainz just looked horrid with the 128x128 ground textures and an increasing quality and resolution of scenery assets and such. One rule which basically all professional 3D games follow is that all parts of the game should be able to have a consistent texture resolution. Quite simply, until TS2009, the Trainz series has been one of the few 3D games which hasn't followed that rule. Try out just about every 3D game. Even old ones. Even Quake 1! You'll notice that the 3D models and maps/levels have texture resolutions which are 'equal', and no sepperate part of any 3D game will stand out as looking higher or lower res than any other.
Although there are quite a lot of bugs, TS2009 and TS2010 are huge improvements over TRS2006. Much of that is also in the core of the game, considering the amazing performance boost over TRS2006. If Auran concentrate on fewer products, we'll finally see the game evolve into a truely modern game. If Auran actually had the cash to use professional beta testers rather than people in the community who are more interested in getting new things to play with, as well as the good people in the community who do report bugs, but perhaps don't have real knowledge of how to really try to 'break' a feature as a more experienced (paid or unpaid) beta tester would do, we'd also have far fewer bugs.
I'd much rather see old low res content made for UTC, TRS2004 and TRS2006 be unsupported and have the game concentrate on using modern assets which the game finally supports which are finally able to make the game look good and consistent with more modern games from 2010.
As much as I appreciate the hard work that many content creators put into assets for older versions of Trainz - many of which were the best that could be made for those old versions - it's time to move on.
Trainz finally is getting the ability to be a truely modern game. Why shouldn't we embrace this? TRS2006 and TRS2004 had horrid physics, and some ridiculous limitations.
And if the RailWorks/RailSimulator community can create high quality assets (Nearly all of the third party assets which I've seen uploaded are of an extremely professional standard) then why can't we?
I think many people are frustrated that they'll have to learn new techniques for making content. Many people aren't willing to learm. Fair enough. They don't have to if don't want to. If we can finally get well designed content such as what the RailWorks/RailSimulator community are making, then we'll likely get many new folk joining our community to create higher quality assets designed to look fantastic and have great performance, then we can finally have Trainz enter the 21st century. And about time, I think.
On the note of performance of assets (mostly scenery objects in this example) it's mentioned that every texture added to an object adds (can't remember the figure exactly) the equivalent of ~300 or so polys. For a large part, most content on the download station seems to use a ridiculous amount of textures. Which drains the performance of all versions of Trainz.
Quite simply, I think it's time to move on. Focus on quality assets, and finally - as I mentioned before - let the Trainz series enter the 21st century. The older versions of Trainz have rubbish performance, and much of the older content is poorly designed. Most content creators are hobbyists, and I completely understand that so many assets aren't designed to a more 'professional' standard, and my respect for every content creator no matter what the quality of their assets are has never diminished, and I greatly appreciate the work that everyone has done.
Quite frankly, I'm sick of Trainz seeming like a game from the 1990s.
john_goddard
Steam freak
Boobless, if only all Trainzers had your sense and foresight!! There is too much negativity on this forum, people criticising Ts2010 when they have not even bought it ! It is far from perfect but it is the only way to go, I removed 2004 from my pc when I bought TC3. Most of the earlier assets work in 2010 so will be used until they are replaced by new creations, John.
mezzoprezzo
Content appreciator
Peter,
Thanks for your updated figures.
I still cannot find anything like your total. I’ve had another trawl through the DLS this morning, doing an “All” search and still get the lower number.
Do you think that your figure includes all the files that support a given model, like the meshes and texture files etc?
What I’m trying to count is the total number of items; individual trees, buildings, rolling stock etc.
that the DLS has to offer, rather than all the files that are needed to build them in the game.
If I can get your six figure number of items as individual models, I’d be delighted to investigate further. Perhaps someone can tell me where I’m going wrong on my DLS searches.
This is what I got this morning, first for 2004 – then for 2010:
Casper
- Status