Cabviews - who cares?

[sniper297]

This isn't one of those CAB versus DCC polls, most people like DCC, it is what it is. What I'm wondering about is how many hit the 1 key and jump into the cab of the loco from the outside? Do some / most / all / none of the users actually care what the inside of the cab looks like? What got me thinking about that was this;

Pair of Alco RS11s painted red for different railroads with different logos on the long hoods. What I generally do is copy the skin from the base unweathered model, reduce saturation and lightness so it's darker and doesn't call attention to itself, then use that same cabview for all the clones regardless how much weathering they have.

Looking out the back window of the IndustRail RS-11,

And the Chicago Metro RS-11 got me wondering - do I really need a different cab for every reskin? If the logo was eliminated and the color was set to a midrange dull generic red or blue or green you could just pick the cab that had the hood color closest to the skin. Would that be good enough, or would people find it unacceptable to see a generic dull yellow for both UP and C&NW? I know the Gen_sd is nothing but basic black with an SD40 body that overlaps whatever is coupled behind, I'm not talking about going that far, I'm just wondering how important it is that the logos or whatever lettering is visible from outside matches what you see from inside the cab. Assuming, of course, anyone actually drives from inside the cab.

 

[JCitron]

I'm one of the cab riders except when I'm switching. I like the way you make the outside-view colors the same or close to the color of the locomotive. What I don't like is having a black and yellow locomotive on the outside, but seeing a Union Pacific yellow, red, and grey from the inside.

So, please don't go the "easy" route and make a generic one cab fits all. Not seeing the logo is a non-issue for me as long as the colors are close. You could even approximate the logo location even but it doesn't have to be distinct.

John

 

[nfitzsimmons]

I also like driving from the cab. So I like railroad-specific paint from the inside view.

 

[clam1952]

Steam loco's can be even worse, there are many that use the PB15 cab view, problem for me is cab controls for steam loco's, I still can't get it right after a year of trying which is why my NG stuff doesn't have working cabs other than I did temporarily use someone else's just to check the especs which are pretty pointless without a working cab. Animation isn't my strong point, took me a year to get a working Steam bogie!

As far as driving for testing my route I either use DCC or program the AI to do it while working on stuff on the other PC, for actually driving a route I use Cab when I can, not the worlds greatest Steam engine Driver and probably the worlds worst Fireman if I don't use the automatic option. With my my own stuff at the moment I have non working cabs ( failed working cab attempts) that I can jump into in DCC, not quite the same though. I'm ok on non Steam though, even got through the coupler breakage problem a couple of times, still failed 99.9% of the time.
For another thread really but I noticed something odd while sitting in follow mode on the roof of the second loco on Mojave to Bakersfield, briefly a visible lurch of the first loco only and an immediate Coupler Break and no I hadn't touched anything!

 

[davesnow]

I drive cab view except when I'm switching.

There's always a way to fix the view so you can see the correct colors/logos/etc. from the cab if you dig deep enough. For some it's the "shell" file or art. If I find a loco that doesn't display the correct colors I just go and fix it.

 

[kin3]

I am more concerned about camera positions than cab interiors. I use keyboard controls and do not use mouse to move levers, knobs, etc. So short answer no. When building a route I also only build it from the cab view.

 

[BD1]

placemarker

 

[Dermmy]

Odd man out again! It's just not an issue for me. I'm a rail-fan, not a driver and I honestly just can't suspend reality enough to believe that clicking a mouse on a picture equates in any way to 'driving a train' and anyway I just hate the restricted view through the tiny pretend windows in pretend American style cabs. I want to see the route, not the cab!. Cam view '2' and '3' are all I ever use.

Andy

 

[JCitron]

I drive cab view except when I'm switching.

There's always a way to fix the view so you can see the correct colors/logos/etc. from the cab if you dig deep enough. For some it's the "shell" file or art. If I find a loco that doesn't display the correct colors I just go and fix it.

Hi Dave,

Where are the files located? I can always do some touching up if I have to. I have access to the tools, just not as good at it as my bro who I'll talk into helping me.

John

 

[ftldave]

I've always thought the real magic of computer trainsims is the cab view and the cab controls, something way beyond a model railroading experience. And I appreciate a generic cab rather than one that shows UP or other incorrect colors in a non-UP loco.

 

[PWeiser]

Well, everyone knows where I stand on this issue: outside visible from inside = 1. If you want superdetail inside the cab, by all means make that part of the interior asset so it doesn't load the system modeling it from outside views, but make a simplified interior part of the main asset into which the superdetail fits.

That said, my current project (which is actually getting somewhat close to release) is a steam loco which will use sniper297's Big Steam interior with the actual boiler shell mesh substituted for the tank (neat idea, though) - that is, *not* outside visible from inside because the Big Steam cab is just too big for the prototype. Actually building my own steam interior would take weeks, not counting research and finding out what all that stuff *does* (g).

 

[sniper297]

Right click the loco in content mangler, view dependencies, view in main list. Find the cabview and edit the skin. Alternately for stuff like a SW1200 that uses Gen_sd edit the config for that to point the interior tag to an actual switcher cab.

"I just hate the restricted view through the tiny pretend windows in pretend American style cabs. I want to see the route, not the cab!"

I'm kinda sorta with you on that, I'm schizoid about the whole thing - love the exterior appearance of high hood road switchers and steam locos, but when driving around I prefer the chop nose GP9s with the big front windows so I can see the scenery. I don't click and drag interior controls, I got a raildriver, and sometimes I do change to exterior views when switching, particularly with long trains where I can't see the end from the cab. Usually I change to the car itself and use my "brakeman riding on the car" view;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbxUPu7yhiU

Just because it feels more realistic to me.

In general it seems the consensus is no consensus, some are happy if the colors match close enough for Disco, others gotta have the exact skin. Nobody minds downloading a bunch of different specific cabviews for each different road skin? Stuff like the SD40 with it's megamongobytes for each different skin might be a problem, but most are only a few megs.

 

[JCitron]

Thanks, Jim for your help. It looks like I might be busy for awhile.

John

 

[frogpipe]

This reminds me of the VC vs 2D Panel debates in Flight Sim. 2D panels were like MSTS, a bitmap through which you could see the outside world, that had a panel with bit map gauges and controls. The VC (Virtual Cockpit) was a full 3D model of the cockpit, like the cabview in Trainz.

Some modelers took the approach "I don't use the VC, it is therefore worthless, so my aircraft shall not have one [suck it]". To my view this was the wrong approach. Basically you should provide what was provided with the game, as a bare minimum. (That gets you as far as, yes it needs a Cabview model) - the part about said cab view showing the correct colors/logo outside the window is a matter of having a functional frontal cortex.

Same for camera/cab position.

What I've seen in TS12 from the factory was nothing less then sloppy. I don't think evil of the devs for letting it get past them (I didn't even notice myself at first), but I do blame them for them not fixing it.

So in short.

Cabview? Yes.
Correctly Skinned? Duh.

Even if the end user only pops into that view once in a great while for sightseeing, it should be right.

As for me, I do a mix of cam 4, cam2, and cam1, depends on what I'm doing. Sometimes I drive a train, sometimes I'm "running the road" and letting the AI handle the throttle and brakes.

I tend to NOT use cam3 because of how often it makes the game crash on me.

 

[captainkman]

Well, everyone knows where I stand on this issue: outside visible from inside = 1. If you want superdetail inside the cab, by all means make that part of the interior asset so it doesn't load the system modeling it from outside views, but make a simplified interior part of the main asset into which the superdetail fits.

I use that tag too, as I cannot stand seeing the wrong colours from a loco cab. On my Herbie model, the interior is only one plane that is textured to be invisible. The knobs and levers and windscreen wipers are attached to the interior, and these parts are deleted from the exterior. I use the tag outside-visible-from-cabin in the interior and I use the reverse (can't remember the exact wording) in the main body. This way, the levers and wipers can be seen form outside too. And the wipers move in the outside view too.

My preferred method for driving is in interior view but using the keyboard.

And I never use view 3 as I don't like the motion.

 

[belgian46]

Hello,

Driving a train - I simply love it to have this view

Best regards

Kurt :wave:

 

[Robert2d6]

View in cab view is too restricted for me, and I prefer the outside view. What surprises me are the number of people that use DCC mode, which to me, is so far from reality, it isn't funny. Takes zero skill to control a train in DCC mode, so what is the point of it?

 

[Firefighterdan]

I drive cab view except when I'm switching.

 

[JCitron]

View in cab view is too restricted for me, and I prefer the outside view. What surprises me are the number of people that use DCC mode, which to me, is so far from reality, it isn't funny. Takes zero skill to control a train in DCC mode, so what is the point of it?

I use both. CAB is great for running; DCC is super for testing and for trolleys, and when I don't want to fart around with the controls.

John

 

[ftldave]

... Takes zero skill to control a train in DCC mode, so what is the point of it?

If the kids are running the train, DCC is the way to go. During testing, DCC is the way to go. Not every session has to be a skill test. Sometimes it's just for fun, sometimes it's to get some test work done.