BNSF Licensing Issue

[Vern]

Posted in "General" as this appears to be relevant to all train sim products.

It has come to light following discussion in this thread http://www.trainsim.com/vbts/showth...BNSF-branding-banning-to-DTG-Railworks-TS2015 at TS.com that BNSF have imposed some fairly rigorous restrictions on where content displaying their corporate logo and identity (which includes former constituent companies such as BN, NP etc.) can be sold or distributed.

Essentially you need a licence and the content can only be sold or distributed where the BNSF trademarks are registered, which is in fact just the USA.

So it's not just DTG who have been affected by this, having pulled all their BNSF connected items from Steam to other than customers resident in the US, potentially it's any train sim producer or content developer, including Trainz. I can't recall if there's any BNSF or derivative content built into TANE but I'm sure there is in TS12 viz. Tehachapi and definitely in TS2010. Avery - Drexel (Milwaukee Road) possibly affected? There's also potentially 1000's of items on the DLS which, by the letter of BNSF's edict, should only be available to customers within the US. Hopefully Tony and his lawyers are already looking into this but given the BNSF stance seems rather intractable, I would suggest if you want anything BNSF or predecessor companies items, get them now lest it be too late.

And it probably wouldn't hurt to sign the petition linked from TS.com, either.

 

[cascaderailroad]

UP wanted all the model train sets in hobby shops pulled from the shelves, I don't think we have to worry about lawsuits, it would never hold up in court, and would be a waste of time ... it's all BS, that will never happen

 

[BuilderBob]

Essentially you need a licence and the content can only be sold or distributed where the BNSF trademarks are registered, which is in fact just the USA.

That is an incorrect interpretation. If the logo and trademark are not registered in a particular country then there is no restriction on selling or buying the branded items in that country. BNSF cannot manage or control the use of the mark or logo in countries where it is not registered. So if N3V does not have a licence they can sell these products anywhere except US and Canada. If N3V has a licence then they can sell the products anywhere including US and Canada.

 

[Vern]

That is an incorrect interpretation. If the logo and trademark are not registered in a particular country then there is no restriction on selling or buying the branded items in that country. BNSF cannot manage or control the use of the mark or logo in countries where it is not registered. So if N3V does not have a licence they can sell these products anywhere except US and Canada. If N3V has a licence then they can sell the products anywhere including US and Canada.

Interesting counterpoint - if that is the case then there is no need for anyone to apply a regional restriction to BNSF content, even if that's what BNSF are telling them!

 

[clam1952]

As I see it, if a logo is not registered in a particular company then anyone in that country could technically create an identical logo and register it for use for any product or company with no repercussions in that country as it has not been registered in that country.
Perhaps BNSF are more concerned with the unlikely situation of a company having the same logo taking action against them? who knows!

DTG may just be reacting to Steam, being as it's a US Company.

Bit of an OTT reaction though.

 

[nathanmallard]

The BNSF trademark is not registered outside the US, so BNSF-related products can be sold in Europe, Asia and Oz without fear of a costly lawsuit. Not sure then why DTG is limiting sales of BNSF items to the United States only, as it is the only place in the world where they can be successfully sued for it! A very OTT reaction I think.
I don't tend to use that much BNSF stuff in Trainz, but I do use content depicting it's predecessors including GN, ATSF and Milwaukee so I find this development rather disturbing.

 

[Falcus]

Another key thing to note about copyright law. In recent decades lawsuits over "Distribution" have focused solely on the "For Monetary Gain" part of that particular law. Little old ladies are allowed to make tags from Winnie The Pooh and Mickey Mouse free from prosecution as long as they're not charging for them or using them to make money..... I think Rail Foamers taking Screenshots of their favorite Rail Lines and said equipment would fall in the same category.....

That said, I have heard nothing so far about this move by DTG, so I'll have to do some research before getting more into that. I agree it seems an interesting and rather OTT move at face value. Just at a glance I'd have to assume the CEO of DTG was invited to lunch with a VP from BNSF or something and was asked to do it or something, as that kind of thing is usually why companies do non-sensical things like this. Possibly some silly fear of seeing something like an IS-promoted Media driving a BNSF locomotive over a cliff or something (Not that 5 year olds don't do this everyday Im sure)....... Like I said though, more research.....

-Falcus

 

[Enzo1]

That is an incorrect interpretation. If the logo and trademark are not registered in a particular country then there is no restriction on selling or buying the branded items in that country. BNSF cannot manage or control the use of the mark or logo in countries where it is not registered. So if N3V does not have a licence they can sell these products anywhere except US and Canada. If N3V has a licence then they can sell the products anywhere including US and Canada.

Which would be an exact reason as to why I wouldn't want it outside the US. That way, it will be much harder for somebody to shame the marks and logos.

 

[BuilderBob]

Which would be an exact reason as to why I wouldn't want it outside the US. That way, it will be much harder for somebody to shame the marks and logos.

If they didn't want it used in countries other than the US and Canada then they would have registered it in those countries. They haven't done that registration, so obviously they have no interest in how it is used (or misused) outside the US and Canada.

 

[cascaderailroad]

This thread should be ignored by everyone, or even closed ... because none of it is ever going to happen

 

[meatloaf747]

Is it back around to the 1st of April already???

Cheers, Mac...

 

[nathanmallard]

Which would be an exact reason as to why I wouldn't want it outside the US. That way, it will be much harder for somebody to shame the marks and logos.

This statement makes no sense. Why would it be harder for people to "shame" the company and it's logo if BNSF merchandise was not available outside the US? BNSF is a US railway company, so any attempts to defame it are pretty much certain to come from within the country. Plus your statement completely ignores people in Europe and the rest of the world who want BNSF lines in their sim. For example, TUME, who lives in Germany, could theoretically be sued for selling his Avery-Drexel route as payware because the Milwaukee Road trademark is now owned by BNSF, and therefore anything related to it cannot be sold outside the USA. Can you see how ridiculous this is now?

Is it back around to the 1st of April already???

I'm afraid not if the above is anything to go by...

 

[iannz]

Damnit, turn it the right way up, BNSF should pay up for the free advertising they are getting by having their logo spread all around the world by Trainz and DTG.

 

[BuilderBob]

For example, TUME, who lives in Germany, could theoretically be sued for selling his Avery-Drexel route as payware because the Milwaukee Road trademark is now owned by BNSF

That is NOT what BNSF is saying. The licensing requirement is that if you sell to anyone in the US or Canada then you must be licensed to sell it. If you sell to anyone anywhere else no license is required. The marks are not registered in Germany. TUME is quite OK to sell that route to anyone outside the US, and is probably OK to sell it to anyone within the US unless (perhaps) he uses US servers or a part of the US banking system for the transaction.

 

[Enzo1]

This statement makes no sense. Why would it be harder for people to "shame" the company and it's logo if BNSF merchandise was not available outside the US?

You misunderstood this point. The point here was that because BNSF has no control over it's marks outside the US, it has really no recourse for activity outside of the US.

NSF is a US railway company, so any attempts to defame it are pretty much certain to come from within the country. Plus your statement completely ignores people in Europe and the rest of the world who want BNSF lines in their sim. For example, TUME, who lives in Germany, could theoretically be sued for selling his Avery-Drexel route as payware because the Milwaukee Road trademark is now owned by BNSF, and therefore anything related to it cannot be sold outside the USA. Can you see how ridiculous this is now?

This is incorrect. MILW is actually a trademark of SOO which is a trademark of the Canadian Pacific Railway. So I don't quite see how BNSF applies here.

 

[DaveL]

Sorry guys, Cascaderailroad IS correct. This is truly a "tempest in a teapot".
As big as UP is, even they could not make it work as envisioned.

DaveL

"The past is pro-log"

 

[JCitron]

If I remember, the UP eventually conceded and made the requirement to ask permission first before using their logo on any pay-content and to use officially released logos rather than a redrawn or recreated one. In other words, the payware content creator would have to contact BNSF's marketing department and get a download of the official logos, which probably come with a 500 page pdf book (seriously) on how not to use the logo.


John