Backup Software

[KenGreen]

I have Windows 7 64bit and have recently bought a new external harddrive specifically to backup my files. The harddrive came with backup software but this has password protection features etc and I've seen the problems that this can cause, so I'd rather not use this. Consequently I'm looking for some free simple backup software that will back up both of my 500GB harddrives in non-zip format. Apparently Windows Backup and Restore only backups the main harddrive whereas all of my Trainz and Flight Sim software is located on the second drive.
Has anybody any suggestions?

Thanks

Ken

 

[fran1]

Connect the external to the comp.
Now do some maths, if it's a 1Tb hard drive it's easy, 2x 500gb partitions= 1 partition for each drive, name them and give a drive letter. You might want to do it differently depending how much you have on each drive though. So you might do 3 partitions of 300=+gb giving you a spare.
Open my computer and select 1 of the drives to copy, r/click and select copy, find a partition (drive x) r/click and select paste.
Make a brew and go and do some gardening. Repeat for the other drive and you will have a very tidy garden.:hehe:
I have 2010 and 2012 in their own partitions away from the O/S on my comp and in separate folders on my external.

 

[cascaderailroad]

In TRS2006 there is only the "Local" folder to save for backup (it contains all assets and your custom/edited routes).

In higher versions of Trainz than 06, there also is a second folder to backup (somone that knows will post here).

 

[KenGreen]

The External drive is indeed a 1TB USB3 Mybook. What I have been doing is use Windows Backup and Restore for Drive C and simply copying the entire second drive which takes about 5 hours. In the event of a harddrive failure I will not have to reinstall Trainz I can simply copy the entire drive. What I was after was incremental backup software so that only the changes would be copied.

Ken

 

[RRSignal]

I generally don't advise using backup software, especially anything that saves the metadata or, even worse, the data itself, in some proprietary format. The thing with copying whole files and folders (uncompressed & unencrypted) is that you can always get that back, without having to depend upon a program (often subscription-based) decoding it for you. If you are concerned that you won't remember to back up, then maybe some reminder software will work better for you, lol.

 

[KenGreen]

Thanks for that RR, I was of a similar mind that's why I didn't want any form of compression. I think I will be best sticking with my current method as I have plenty of space and USB3 is suprisingly fast.

Ken

 

[johnwhelan]

You can select which files to back up with windows backup, this includes drives other than c:. Since it compresses the data it is difficult to estimate how much space will be required but Trainz uses lots of small files which compress very nicely.

Cheerio John

 

[dricketts]

I generally don't advise using backup software, especially anything that saves the metadata or, even worse, the data itself, in some proprietary format. The thing with copying whole files and folders (uncompressed & unencrypted) is that you can always get that back, without having to depend upon a program (often subscription-based) decoding it for you. If you are concerned that you won't remember to back up, then maybe some reminder software will work better for you, lol.

This is an interesting topic and have thought of bringing up in the past. Should we use software that will only backup the changes to the local folder by encoding and compression? I doubt this is the wisest approach even though it seems more efficient on the surface. What if the kuid is the same but several tga files have changed in that kuid? What does the backup software do then?

 

[kws4000]

I use a Seagate 1TB that I share with the family desktop (I have a laptop). The basic software is just an auto-copier. It does not save in spec formats, just copies. Scheduel it whenever you want (weekly at the least), and you can force backups too. Just have to remember to connect laptop every week. Only issues is when it tells you backup failed with a red icon: all it means is that it doen't copy about 5 fiels that are used by WIndows because they are already in use, and never transffers the thumbs.db fiels, or whatever those are. It is incremental. Just takes forever to get through 8 sets of 16 folders each that are labeled "0""1""2""3", etc. Guessing it is Win7 problem, never such an issue with XP.

 

[RRSignal]

This is an interesting topic and have thought of bringing up in the past. Should we use software that will only backup the changes to the local folder by encoding and compression? I doubt this is the wisest approach even though it seems more efficient on the surface. What if the kuid is the same but several tga files have changed in that kuid? What does the backup software do then?

Compression is still not a good idea from the recovery standpoint, not to mention portability. As it stands now, I can recover any of my backups in any machine - Windows, Linux, even MacOS - as well as transport the data there and conceivably even run some applications (like Trainz) if I wanted to. (Although running from your backup is definitely NOT recommended! )

Most plain-jane backup software backs up by file modification or creation date; if the file shows as being modified by Windows since the last backup date, it gets copied; else it doesn't. That means the kuid would be replaced in its entirety.

There is another concept, synchronization, which is related to backup, but more frequent. Microsoft even has a free addon called SyncToy which keeps track of modifications and file renames, etc. The problem is, this may introduce a lot of the same compatibility problems I've mentioned (I don't use SyncToy, so I don't know) and it would definitely increase disk usage and probably decrease performance as it's constantly monitoring the file system, much like anti-virus software does. Also, because syncing is more frequent - often it's done real-time - you will likely experience an even more severe performance penalty as opposed to backing up when you're not working.

 

[KenGreen]

You can select which files to back up with windows backup, this includes drives other than c:. Since it compresses the data it is difficult to estimate how much space will be required but Trainz uses lots of small files which compress very nicely.

Cheerio John

Hi John
I could not work out how to back up my second drive with Windows Backup. From My Computer I selected my E drive went into tools and selected Backup and it proceeded to back up C again this took 5 minutes so it beats me how to do it.
Ideally I would have liked to back up both drives with Windows and every month do a full straight forward copy of the entire drive.

Ken

 

[Lataxe]

Mr Green,

Windows 7 backup works well for me. I use the "Let me choose" option when setting it up (or changing it) as this allows you to specify any or all of your drives (or their subfolders) for backup.
The MS recommendation is to use an external drive as the backup drive, for obvious reasons.

The first backup takes ages but subsequent backups only process any changes since the last backup. This takes much less time. You can actually work on something when the backup is in progress.

I have the auto backup schedule set to once a week; but I set off a non-scheduled backup if I have done significant work that created, deleted or changed files. The weekly backup still runs automatically.

Having just acquired a new PC, I have done a lot of backing up of all sorts of bits & pieces, using the Win 7 backup file from the old PC (on an external drive). The Win 7 backup's facility for retrieving such files, then writing them to somewhere else on the new PC, has worked every time.

I have also, in the last 6 months, rebuilt a PC using the system image and data backup files from Win 7 backup facility, following a slight disaster when removing XP from a dual-boot drive. Again, no significant problems although a couple of programs had to be re-installed to get the Registry right.

It would be nice to have a real-time backup service running in the background, though. Many of the "free" programs to do this - the ones that come with HD drives, typically - seem to have all sorts of glitches; I find myself unable to trust them.

The ladywife does use a Samsung program that came with her USB3 external drive (as well as using Win 7 backup). So far no problems that weren't fixable - but it was a bugger to set up.

But in the end, I also copy over the whole TS2010 User/local folder periodically to another external drive. I also tend to make CDPs of any route/session that I've spent a lot of time messing with - just in case.

Lataxe (positively paranoid when it comes to backing up).

 

[HiBaller]

I have been using a simple (free) program from Microsoft called SyncToy (version 2.1). It allows a complete "ghosting" of any directories you wish - no matter how complex. It can be:

Synchronize: Makes two directories mirror each other. What you put into the left one gets reflected in the right one and vice-versa. Deletions are allowed on both sides.

One-way: Copies are made always from left to right; never the other way. Any deletions on the left are repeated on the right.

Contribute: Additions on the left are repeated on the right BUT deletions on the left are NOT replicated on the right.

The URL for this great application is: http://search.microsoft.com/en-us/results.aspx?form=MSHOME&setlang=en-us&q=synctoy 2.1

I just love it. Works fine on everything from Windows 2000 through Windows 7 (64). It is fast also.

Bill

 

[dricketts]

Compression is still not a good idea from the recovery standpoint, not to mention portability. .

What do you mean by portability?

But in the end, I also copy over the whole TS2010 User/local folder periodically to another external drive.

Can't you run into problems by copy/replacing the local folder to a drive where the local folder already exist? My local folder takes about 4 hours for this process and even longer if I'm not there to check on it. Windows will stop the process several times prompting a response from me. Doesn't this copy/replace process increase the probability of corrupt or lost data?

Wound it not be safer and more efficient to back up the local folder to a clean drive that doesn't already have instances of the this folder scattered thorough it?

 

[johnwhelan]

Hi John
I could not work out how to back up my second drive with Windows Backup. From My Computer I selected my E drive went into tools and selected Backup and it proceeded to back up C again this took 5 minutes so it beats me how to do it.
Ideally I would have liked to back up both drives with Windows and every month do a full straight forward copy of the entire drive.

Ken

Let me choose.

John

 

[KenGreen]

Thanks John I will find the let me choose option and try it out.

Ken

 

[RRSignal]

What do you mean by portability?

It means I can take that drive and feel confident knowing just about any computer (at least, any OS made since 1999!) can read my files and allow me to recover them if needed. It also means even if I just want to access my data from another computer, no problem. If I really wanted to, I could play Trainz from my backup drive rather than copying them to another computer (again, however, that kind of defeats the purpose of backing up, so I wouldn't do that; just saying it could be done.)



Can't you run into problems by copy/replacing the local folder to a drive where the local folder already exist? My local folder takes about 4 hours for this process and even longer if I'm not there to check on it. Windows will stop the process several times prompting a response from me. Doesn't this copy/replace process increase the probability of corrupt or lost data?

Wound it not be safer and more efficient to back up the local folder to a clean drive that doesn't already have instances of the this folder scattered thorough it?

Not really. You can just overwrite existing files and folders no problem. The bigger problem is that you might have unwanted files left over if you DON'T start with a clean slate. In other words, a copy will overwrite existing files but will not delete any backed up files that the user has intentionally deleted. The result is more clutter and wasted disk space. On the other hand, a sync'd system will delete information on the backup that was deleted on the original - think accidental or malicious file deletions - somewhat defeating the purpose of backing up. Obviously, you'd want to use your sense when making backups; however, it's better to have too much info backed up than too little.

 

[dricketts]

a sync'd system will delete information on the backup that was deleted on the original.

Is there an example of a good sync'd system that could be used just for the Trainz local folder?

 

[HiBaller]

Is there an example of a good sync'd system that could be used just for the Trainz local folder?

See my post - #13.

The way I use it is to put one installation of TRS2010 on one computer into the "left side" of SyncToy and put a different computer install of TRS2010 on the "right side" of the syncing software. Then, when I run it, both sides are upadated and I only have to run CMP on ONE of the computers - the other one gets updated automatically.

Bill