Aviation help required

[sologuitarist61]

Hi

Have decided to include an air route on my Trainz route, I have had no trouble setting up airports, runways, invisible track etc, but I am having trouble maintaining air speed with the plane (Fokker Friendship specifically though all planes I have tried do the same thing).

The problem is that if I set an airspeed of 400kph the aircraft will accelerate down the runway and climb, but as soon as it reaches a certain point (height?, distance?, airspeed? - unable to ascertain which) the airspeed immediately starts to decline to such an extent that when it reached the destination airport it is down to 40-50kph as it actually touches the runway which I am sure is far less than the stalling speed of the aircraft.

Moving the landing point closer to the approach of course helps a bit but the plane is down to less than 100 kph 2 km from the airport so the speed difference at landing is marginal.

To start I thought that the separation between the airports was too small (about 5km) so I built a test route separating each airport by 20 baseboards, but still the problem occurs although the degradation of the airspeed is less on the longer distance, the landing speed remains very low.

I am not using any Rules here, just using the same technique that I would with a loco route.

I have tried putting the airspeed onto the track in other places to reinforce the speed but these are ignored and the speed continues to get less even though it remains correct in the Speed/Limit/Time box on the Driver Screen.

My Driver Commands are as follows :-

Commercial Airport A>Drive to (taxi) trackmark 1 (at 30kph)>drive to airport 2 (at 400kph)>wait for (?)​ seconds>Drive to (taxi) to trackmark 2 (at 30 kph)>Drive to Airportr 1 (at 400 kph) - the track marks mention refer to the start of the runwaysI get the feeling that I am missing something important her but what that may be isn't clear - any help would be appreciated

Many thanks
Richard

 

[captainkman]

Have you any speed signs, preferably invisible, on the airways and runways?

Kieran.

 

[sologuitarist61]

Have you any speed signs, preferably invisible, on the airways and runways?

Kieran.

Yes indeed, 30kph on the taxiway and 400 kph on the run ways.

Richard

 

[leksie]

I had in the past the same problem . I can't remember it excactly but i used the speedsigns from Vulcan kuid: 60238:230027 and the inv.track 60238:370337.

Do you use excisting airports from Vulcan ? So yes , ignore the tracks on the airport . Lay the new tracks along the excisting tracks and use the red track markers at the end of each track with a inv.stop sign.

 

[martinvk]

How much track is available after the plane lands. Without enough, the look ahead will see that the track ends soon and adjust the speed to be able to stop before reaching the end.

 

[sologuitarist61]

I had in the past the same problem . I can't remember it excactly but i used the speedsigns from Vulcan kuid: 60238:230027 and the inv.track 60238:370337.

Do you use excisting airports from Vulcan ? So yes , ignore the tracks on the airport . Lay the new tracks along the excisting tracks and use the red track markers at the end of each track with a inv.stop sign.

Yes, everything I have used is from Vulcan

Richard

 

[sologuitarist61]

How much track is available after the plane lands. Without enough, the look ahead will see that the track ends soon and adjust the speed to be able to stop before reaching the end.

The length of over-run of the runway is considerably more than that needed to land the plane. However. as the plane is flying so slowly by the time that it reaches the runway (40 kph) it requires very little of the runway to land successfully.

Richard

 

[martinvk]

The length of over-run of the runway is considerably more than that needed to land the plane. However. as the plane is flying so slowly by the time that it reaches the runway (40 kph) it requires very little of the runway to land successfully.

Richard

Yes but consider how long it would take an engine to slow from 400 kph without upsetting the passengers? Did you modify the engine spec to also have a higher deceleration force as well as a higher acceleration and top speed? You could also try putting the 40 kph limit at the far end of the runway where the plane leaves the runway for the taxiway in stead of at touchdown to get most of the braking action happening on the runway rather that in the air before landing. Remember that the speed has to already had decreased to the posted limit when the front of the engine passes the limit sign.

 

[sologuitarist61]

Yes but consider how long it would take an engine to slow from 400 kph without upsetting the passengers? Did you modify the engine spec to also have a higher deceleration force as well as a higher acceleration and top speed? You could also try putting the 40 kph limit at the far end of the runway where the plane leaves the runway for the taxiway in stead of at touchdown to get most of the braking action happening on the runway rather that in the air before landing. Remember that the speed has to already had decreased to the posted limit when the front of the engine passes the limit sign.

Thank you for your response.

Sorry, I thought I had explained the situation better than that. The 40 kph that the plane slows to before the runway is not placed there by me but appears to be n inherent function of the plane itself.

With regard to changing the spec then I'm afraid that I do not have a clue as to how to do that so that isn't an option.

I agree that a plane takes a long time to decelerate from 400 kph but these plane(s) are always below stalling speed before it evens gets to the runway, no matter where I place the runway. So if I move the runway to shorten the distance then the plane just slows earlier on its travel so that the speed is still just 40 kph when it gets to the runway. I repeat that there is no speed limit signs at all actually on the runway, just the 400 kph that was placed at the take off point. Only at the far end of the runway is there a speed of 30 kph which is laid for the taxiway.

 

[llebrez]

The way Trainz works (for safety reasons?), is that the craft will slow down when getting near to an end of track or signal. How near, or far.. well that may be the problem. What is needed is a rule that will maintain the speed as set previously depending of the altitude of the craft, so that while it is up in the air, it would not drop below certain speed. Is that hard to do? not a clue here.. As an alternative, a rule that will not slow down the speed until the craft is at very near the speed marker, end of track or signal.

 

[Bill69]

Hi sologuitarist61,

This is something that I don't think you will be able to do anything about. The plane is acting as a loco, and I have found in TS12 Sp1 and above all trains slow as soon as they can see a yellow signal, even if the signal is 2 or 3 miles away. The thing that might help is extend the runway with invisible track and place at least two invisible signals on the extension, these two signals will have to be some distance apart other wise you will get a message about signals within overlapping distance.

Cheers,
Bill69

 

[sologuitarist61]

The way Trainz works (for safety reasons?), is that the craft will slow down when getting near to an end of track or signal. How near, or far.. well that may be the problem. What is needed is a rule that will maintain the speed as set previously depending of the altitude of the craft, so that while it is up in the air, it would not drop below certain speed. Is that hard to do? not a clue here.. As an alternative, a rule that will not slow down the speed until the craft is at very near the speed marker, end of track or signal.

That sounds a sensible idea, but whether enough of us use planes to make it worth putting the work into it or not is debatable.

I have no problem with the plane slowing down en-route, my gripe is that it slows to such an extent that flight would be impossible, a plane still flying at 40 kph is an impossibility, so your second point about a rule to maintain the speed would be a great idea!

Richard

 

[sologuitarist61]

Hi sologuitarist61,

This is something that I don't think you will be able to do anything about. The plane is acting as a loco, and I have found in TS12 Sp1 and above all trains slow as soon as they can see a yellow signal, even if the signal is 2 or 3 miles away. The thing that might help is extend the runway with invisible track and place at least two invisible signals on the extension, these two signals will have to be some distance apart other wise you will get a message about signals within overlapping distance.

Cheers,
Bill69

Hi Bill60

Yes, I am beginning to see that you are right and that it is something I may well have to live with.

I have tried all sorts of way to get around it using speed markers to force it to maintain a speed (which the plane ignores) and signals but nothing seems to make any difference to the planes behaviour. I get the feeling that the runway has nothing to do with the situation and that the plane is probably taking its readings from the airport as even if I remove the runway the same thing happens.

 

[martinvk]

I don't think it is just the speed boards. They dictate the maximum local speed but not a minimum. Other factors can and will influence that. Like when I put a station in a main line that has a 130 kph max, engines scheduled to stop there will start decelerating as they approach, even if there is no speed board to reduce the speed. Approaching a yellow or red signal will also reduce the engine speed. Sounds like you have more of a signalling issue. Your plane sees a yellow signal and starts slowing. At 400 kph, it knows it will need a long distance to reduce its speed so it starts too early from your point of view. Try adding a few extra signals so it still has a green as it crosses the runway threshold.

 

[sologuitarist61]

I don't think it is just the speed boards. They dictate the maximum local speed but not a minimum. Other factors can and will influence that. Like when I put a station in a main line that has a 130 kph max, engines scheduled to stop there will start decelerating as they approach, even if there is no speed board to reduce the speed. Approaching a yellow or red signal will also reduce the engine speed. Sounds like you have more of a signalling issue. Your plane sees a yellow signal and starts slowing. At 400 kph, it knows it will need a long distance to reduce its speed so it starts too early from your point of view. Try adding a few extra signals so it still has a green as it crosses the runway threshold.

Thanks for that, but I am sure that isn't the case in this example.

The plane is already losing speed before it finishes its climb from the runway and is already down to less than 100 kph many baseboards away from the airport. If it was going at 100 kph when it approached the end of the runway that would be an acceptable and would still leave sufficient runway to get down to taxi-ing speed, but 40 kph is a ridiculous speed for an aircraft still supposedly in the air - as a young man I could probably run that fast.

Also the fact that is starts to slow straight from take off, many km from the destination, makes me think that something else is involved here, not just the plane slowing itself for landing. I have had a look at the config file but cannot find a reference to a deceleration figure. just the one for wheeels up/down.

Richard

 

[sologuitarist61]

I don't think it is just the speed boards. They dictate the maximum local speed but not a minimum. Other factors can and will influence that. Like when I put a station in a main line that has a 130 kph max, engines scheduled to stop there will start decelerating as they approach, even if there is no speed board to reduce the speed. Approaching a yellow or red signal will also reduce the engine speed. Sounds like you have more of a signalling issue. Your plane sees a yellow signal and starts slowing. At 400 kph, it knows it will need a long distance to reduce its speed so it starts too early from your point of view. Try adding a few extra signals so it still has a green as it crosses the runway threshold.

Have tried putting in six invisible signals on the out leg and the return leg with the last two on each leg just before and half along the runway - unfortunately it has made no difference to how the plane reacts and it starts to lose speed at the same point as before - good idea though, many thanks!

 

[llebrez]

I was able to somewhat solve the problem. I suspect that you have an invisible track that starts and ends. The craft (is a loco, really) sees the end of track and slows down. And if it sees a speed restrictive signal or semaphore, it also slows down. So, what I did is to create a loop. A gigantic loop that starts at an airport, goes to the other one, and continues back to the starting airport. You bring the invisible track to where the plane is supposed to park at both ends. Put a track mark at each end and run the plane from one to the other repeating. See if the plane slows down (it will because when it nears the trackmark knows it has to stop). Anyhow it may not slow down so much. Try issuing a drive-by command or drive-to and see what happens. Stay away from speed restrictors and signals. And let us know if this helps.

 

[gd5150]

You could try changing the mass of the airplane in the config file. Lowering the mass should allow it to maintain its speed. I did the opposite to some helicopters so they'd have more intertia and accel/decel more fluidly.

 

[sologuitarist61]

You could try changing the mass of the airplane in the config file. Lowering the mass should allow it to maintain its speed. I did the opposite to some helicopters so they'd have more intertia and accel/decel more fluidly.

That sounds like a plan!! Will give it a go, thank you

Richard

 

[vulcan]

Hi guys,

The problems do occur with a loop of track, even if you place speed signs (which are necessary or the aircraft will not get above the default speed limit of 65 kph). The aircraft will get half way around the loop and slow down. This happens with portals, if you emit an aircraft and the receiving portal is too close it will never get up to speed. You probably need invisible signals on a loop as well.

One solution is to place a number of trackmarks and use the "Drive Via" command. Place one just before the airport where you wish to land and it will maintain the speed until it gets there.

Ian