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NSWGR_46Class
Just call my Captain Rude
hamstergarratt
New member
Hi NSWGR_46class
I am a Garratt fan and half, And i am really looking forward to seeing this garratt.
I am a Garratt fan and half, And i am really looking forward to seeing this garratt.
NSWGR_46Class
Just call my Captain Rude
narrowgauge
92 year oldTrainz veteran
NSWGR_46Class
I don't think you are correct. On the prototype, the controls are linked, one throttle controls the steam to both ends and the reverser is linked so that one adjustment is applied to all, thus the drive units stay in unison
As far as Trainz is concerned, if the model is set up the old way with the boiler as the engine, the bogies just act like dummy wagons with crank action. If the builder has taken advantage of the new bogie attachment methods then the end units will be set up as bogies to the boiler and will respond to one set of controls. In both cases, I can see no reason why cab mode should not work.
Peter
I don't think you are correct. On the prototype, the controls are linked, one throttle controls the steam to both ends and the reverser is linked so that one adjustment is applied to all, thus the drive units stay in unison
As far as Trainz is concerned, if the model is set up the old way with the boiler as the engine, the bogies just act like dummy wagons with crank action. If the builder has taken advantage of the new bogie attachment methods then the end units will be set up as bogies to the boiler and will respond to one set of controls. In both cases, I can see no reason why cab mode should not work.
Peter
NSWGR_46Class
Just call my Captain Rude
NSWGR_46Class
Just call my Captain Rude
Yes on the prototype the one set of control works both power units - but the drive unit do not stay in unison - ever seen one power bogie on a garret slip I have its an amazing sight and sound. There are still two independent locos joined at the boiler.
At present I am working on the ASG as if it is a multi unit steam loco I.E. two locos joined together
Having the whole power unit as one bogie would not work - just on the grounds of how a garret moves.
At present I am working on the ASG as if it is a multi unit steam loco I.E. two locos joined together
Having the whole power unit as one bogie would not work - just on the grounds of how a garret moves.
G'day NSWGR_46Class,
this is not strictly true, the two engine units are driven as one, as are your driving bogey's on a diesel locomotive. The occasion when they do not turn in unison van just vary on things like traction and weight on the wheels. Zec once told me of an experiment done in I think Queensland where they realised if the drove the garratt quick enough the rod action would catch and move in unison. They tested this in the yard and found it to be true, they basically end up with the same balance at speed. Its the same when double heading two locomotives, even of the same class. The action of the valve gear can differ but often be different in speed compared to each other. This is not necessarily wheel spin though.
Cheers
Timothetoolman
L.O.V.E.M.U.F.F.I.N
Wait, so you are setting up the loco on the premise that slipping makes each unit similar to that of MUs? That's ridiculous. A garratt's power units do not work like MU units, they are two units powered off the one power source (i.e. the boiler) Just because one unit slips and the other doesn't doesn't make it similar to that of MUs. A diesel can slip on one set of traction units whilst the other doesn't, although this is rare. A garratt may be built to work for two or more locos, but that doesn't make it two (or more) locos.
And besides, you can't set up steam locos to work like MUs in Trainz, at least I think that's how it works. The main idea is to have them run off one set of controls, off one power source, again, the boiler. If you follow what Peter has told you, you can set up the bogies to work prototypically using the boiler as the engine. Considering you are building a loco to work with Trainz limitations wheel slip in CAB will still pertain to your whole lashup, not just a single loco (I know because I have witnessed this many times) and even then, Trainz does not currently allow for wheelslip to occur as it does in real life. You're working on limitations that won't let you do what you are trying to do, not without complex scripting.
Tim
And besides, you can't set up steam locos to work like MUs in Trainz, at least I think that's how it works. The main idea is to have them run off one set of controls, off one power source, again, the boiler. If you follow what Peter has told you, you can set up the bogies to work prototypically using the boiler as the engine. Considering you are building a loco to work with Trainz limitations wheel slip in CAB will still pertain to your whole lashup, not just a single loco (I know because I have witnessed this many times) and even then, Trainz does not currently allow for wheelslip to occur as it does in real life. You're working on limitations that won't let you do what you are trying to do, not without complex scripting.
Tim
not quite so, i have got a garret to be a single unit with multiple bogies, and i dohave some rather detailed photoes from inside a SAR400 if you are looking for them i will share.
i am doing the qr garret and have got a lot of features working thanx to TRS2012.
let me know if you are interested as to how i have achieve this
cheers.Bruce..
NSWGR_46Class
Just call my Captain Rude
FACE PLANT + I really give up on you people ......I stated I had seen a Garret slip no more no less......
Each power unit can not be one bogie -each power unit is made up of the main drivers fixed to the power unit frame the front pony truck that moves to suit the track and the rear bogie that also moves independently of drive wheels. all need to move independently to follow the track this will not happen if they are all one fixed unit. On a narrow gauge track on tight curves this would just look stupid.
This is Garrett not a Mallet
And your right you can not set up a steam unit to run mu, ed as I also started ...."there is no MU ability for steam locos ".........
Each power unit can not be one bogie -each power unit is made up of the main drivers fixed to the power unit frame the front pony truck that moves to suit the track and the rear bogie that also moves independently of drive wheels. all need to move independently to follow the track this will not happen if they are all one fixed unit. On a narrow gauge track on tight curves this would just look stupid.
This is Garrett not a Mallet
And your right you can not set up a steam unit to run mu, ed as I also started ...."there is no MU ability for steam locos ".........
Timothetoolman
L.O.V.E.M.U.F.F.I.N
No, he isn't reading properly. Peter and I have clearly told you that using bogie attachment tags you can set them up to work properly, working on a similar principle to other articulates. When I was updating lilb's SP Cab forwards one of the things I needed to do was set up all the bogies using the updated tags to work as you require them to, and therefore prevent the need to make multiple engine units. http://online.ts2009.com/mediaWiki/index.php/"Bogeys"_container
I'm not saying its a simple thing to set up, but if Peter has managed it in the last, SURELY you can was well.
Tim
I'm not saying its a simple thing to set up, but if Peter has managed it in the last, SURELY you can was well.
Tim
narrowgauge
92 year oldTrainz veteran
The new bogie system will allow for the individual power bogies and the leading and trailing bogies to move correctly. It is just a matter of positioning them correctly and selecting the right combination of settings
Typically
Front pilot set to pivot and move sideways
Tank unit set to pivot only
Trailing bogie set to pivot and move sideways
Rear power unit the same. Done this way the bogies respond to the curve of the track, the pilot will move sideways to follow the track, it will stay correctly positioned to the power unit as that pivots around the bogie centre which should be at the centre of the fixed wheelbase.
The new system is impressive, you can have as many bogies as you wish , they will all track and pivot correctly.
Peter
Typically
Front pilot set to pivot and move sideways
Tank unit set to pivot only
Trailing bogie set to pivot and move sideways
Rear power unit the same. Done this way the bogies respond to the curve of the track, the pilot will move sideways to follow the track, it will stay correctly positioned to the power unit as that pivots around the bogie centre which should be at the centre of the fixed wheelbase.
The new system is impressive, you can have as many bogies as you wish , they will all track and pivot correctly.
Peter
narrowgauge
92 year oldTrainz veteran
Stevo
On a Mallett, the front high pressure unit pivots and moves sideways, the rear unit is locked to the boiler, which accounts for the massive front end overhang on curves.
One point about my previous post, I think that the preferred steam unit centre pivot point would be over over the innermost drive wheels. It will take some fiddling to get it right.
Peter
On a Mallett, the front high pressure unit pivots and moves sideways, the rear unit is locked to the boiler, which accounts for the massive front end overhang on curves.
One point about my previous post, I think that the preferred steam unit centre pivot point would be over over the innermost drive wheels. It will take some fiddling to get it right.
Peter
Hi all.
As someone who drives almost exclusively in CAB mode, I would much prefer if the Garratt would perform as realistically as possible, if only to help set precedents. About having the whole loco placed as one object, I'm not sure that's possible, but I may be wrong. The best Garratt I have seen for Standard Gauge is the SAR 400 class by philskene:
Loco SAR 400 Garratt front section,<kuid2:69871:2111:1>
Loco SAR 400 Garratt mid section,<kuid2:69871:2112:1>
Loco SAR 400 Garratt rear section,<kuid2:69871:2113:1>
I'm pretty sure the front section (water tank and driving unit) is set up with a dummy e-spec, just to make the headlights/horn work etc. The mid section is set up as a normal steam loco, with a cab, etc. This is where you drive from. The rear section is set up as a normal tender, ie. it doesn't provide power, but has coal and water.
I would like to emphasise that both the front and rear units are not providing any motive power at all. They only have e-specs to allow headlight and horn to work.
This is the best set-up Garratt I have seen, as you don't have to be switching between locos as you run, but still looks fine, and is pretty easy to set up.
My 2 cents worth.
As someone who drives almost exclusively in CAB mode, I would much prefer if the Garratt would perform as realistically as possible, if only to help set precedents. About having the whole loco placed as one object, I'm not sure that's possible, but I may be wrong. The best Garratt I have seen for Standard Gauge is the SAR 400 class by philskene:
Loco SAR 400 Garratt front section,<kuid2:69871:2111:1>
Loco SAR 400 Garratt mid section,<kuid2:69871:2112:1>
Loco SAR 400 Garratt rear section,<kuid2:69871:2113:1>
I'm pretty sure the front section (water tank and driving unit) is set up with a dummy e-spec, just to make the headlights/horn work etc. The mid section is set up as a normal steam loco, with a cab, etc. This is where you drive from. The rear section is set up as a normal tender, ie. it doesn't provide power, but has coal and water.
I would like to emphasise that both the front and rear units are not providing any motive power at all. They only have e-specs to allow headlight and horn to work.
This is the best set-up Garratt I have seen, as you don't have to be switching between locos as you run, but still looks fine, and is pretty easy to set up.
My 2 cents worth.