ATLS Level Crossing in Absolute Block - Is it possible to delay triggering?

[davidbird]

I'm trying to set up a level crossing in my route. The route is intended to be as close as I can get it to the prototype - operationally if not scenically. For those that know, its between Bestwood Park Jn, Bulwell Forest Crossing and Lincoln Street Crossing, on the Mansfield line north of Nottingham. This is now the Robin Hood Line, although I'm modelling it as it was in late 70s/80s, when the line just carried coal traffic and was worked on Absolute Block.

The distances are BPJ-BFX = 440yds, BFC-LSX = 1.6 miles.

I've set up the level crossing at Bulwell Forest with the ATLS system, using an Inverse Slave to prevent the signal clearing until the crossing is clear. It works a treat, watching a train approach the crossing, seeing the crossing opening, then the signal clearing is a joy.

The problem is this.

There could be a situation when 2 trains follow each other closely.
The first would operate the crossing correctly, clear the crossing and reset the ATLS system.
The second train would then hit the trigger, activate the ATLS system and open the crossing.
BUT the 1st train would still be in the long section to LSX, so the signal will not clear.

SO there will be a situation with the 2nd train sitting at a stop signal which is On, but with the level crossing closed to road traffic, until the 1st train clears the long section.

Is there a way to delay activation of the ATLS system, after it's been triggered, until the section is clear?

The ATLS system seems to be so versatile, is it possible to have a version of the trigger with options to set it to 1) Clear and reset (default- the current behaviour) 2) Clear crossing only or 3) Reset system only.

The problem does not appear in the other direction, as any train will have cleared the short 440yd section BFX-BPJ well before any 2nd train will trigger the crossing again.

 

[Kennilworth]

Hi davidbird

It's a while since I set up an ATLS crossing but if I remember correctly the triggers can be set to react to a particular priority of train. Perhaps the second train could be set to a different priority so it doesn't activate the first trigger but can trip a second trigger set to its own priority which is situated after the stop signal. I don't know if there is sufficient distance between the signal and crossing to allow this but it was the first thing that came to mind when I read your post.

Regards

Brian

 

[boat]

Hi David,

I can't really think of any way you could do this. You could get rid of the Inverse Slave and instead use a Sen City Signal which reads the ATLS commands... but that won't help you much. If the next block still has a train in it, the signal will still be red.
The only way is to put the ATLS Trigger after the signal..... but then I suppose the crossing would not activate in time for non-stopping trains.
I would ask 'stagecoach'. He has spent more time using ATSL that I did developing it! If he can't think of a way then no-one can!

Best of luck,

Boat

 

[stagecoach]

Im without my main computer with trainz on at the moment, but yes there is a work around to do it. It would take a bit of tweaking of the ATLS triggers radius. You need to set up a second ATLS controller using the basic two trigger system. lets say your crossing is set on channel 1. Place a second controller on channel 2 set for level crossing mode. Place an ATLS trigger somewhere near the crossing and a second one just before the signal at the end of the long section, both an channel 2, basic 2 way mode. Now the trick is to place a tram stopper just before the first channel 1 trigger set for channel 2. The first train should enter as normal and enter the long section passing the channel 2 trigger which sets the tram stopper red. the second train stops at the tram stopper until the first train passes the second channel 2 trigger at the end of the long section. The second train now moves forward to activate the channel 1 trigger. By playing with the position and radius of the triggers and signals you should not notice the slight movement forward.

 

[davidbird]

Thanks for your replies all. I'm trying to set up a base session which will allow the option of any train being player-driven, also allow for "random" variations in the schedule. So, thanks for all your replies, but I don't think any will actually help.

However, I have two more questions regarding ATLS triggers

1 - Does the triggering train actually have to be moving?
2 - Does it have to be the same train activating both the activating and clearing triggers?

If the answer to both of these is NO, then I think I have a solution. It involves (this will be no surprise to Brian "Kennilworth") the Path rule and an invisible track and train.

There are two downsides to this. One is that it will need to be saved as a session rather than the map, but this is minor as I will need a base session to preserve the paths, station platform numbering etc. The other is that the Path Rule seems to be broken in TANE, giving script errors when I try to edit it. I'm trying a demo back in TS12 to prove the idea, when its ready I'll post a link to the cdp here.

 

[davidbird]

...
1 - Does the triggering train actually have to be moving?
2 - Does it have to be the same train activating both the activating and clearing triggers?

If the answer to both of these is NO, then I think I have a solution.
...

I think it must be NO and YES... another think needed.

 

[stagecoach]

Question 1 = yes, as you may have noted from your experience with the invisible train in the slave, switching it on and off does not work. But it does work with regards to opening bridges by placing an invisible train on a branch and switching the lever back and forth.
Question 2 = yes as the message that the trigger sends is related to that engine only. Note there is no clearing trigger, each trigger passed will store a number according to the script of the mode used. 4 trigger set up needs 4 triggers to be passed or a combination of driver commands and triggers to a value of 4. trigger 1 activates, trigger 2 ignored, trigger 3 deactivates and trigger 4 ignored. So a train enters past 2 triggers and then reverses past the same 2 triggers will total 4 and complete the cycle.

 

[stagecoach]

There is an alternative that uses a driveable car on invisible track placed near the crossing. Remove all the ATLS triggers on this section and put a TM where the first trigger was. Set up schedule at TM and use post message command, Adrian 1. place a normal trigger after the crossing (1) and another trigger after the last signal (2).
Set up the car driver as follows, ? = your crossing channel, this is for basic 2 mode operation.
Wait for message and clear, Adrian 1
ATLS command channel ?
wait for trigger (1)
wait for 10 seconds
ATLS command ?
wait for trigger (2)
wait for 5 seconds
repeat
The car driver will wait until the first train passes the TM, it will then activate the crossing. As it passes the next trigger it will have 10 seconds to clear the crossing before the crossing deactivates. The second train may already have reached the TM but the message will not be activated until the car driver returns to the first command. The train then passes the second trigger which allows the car driver to wait 5 seconds and return to the wait for message and clear command. As the message had already been sent by the second train the sequence will start again or wait for the next train.

 

[davidbird]

Question 1 = yes, as you may have noted from your experience with the invisible train in the slave, switching it on and off does not work. But it does work with regards to opening bridges by placing an invisible train on a branch and switching the lever back and forth.

It seems to be NO. I have managed a set-up by which I can have purely manual control of a level crossing by having an isolated Y-shaped track with the Invisible Train (by itself- not as part of an ATLS slave). Switching the lever operates the crossing gates and inverse slave correctly - as long as I give it time to complete the animation.

Now I need to get it to work by turning a wheel...:hehe:

There is an alternative that uses a driveable car on invisible track placed near the crossing.
...
As the message had already been sent by the second train the sequence will start again or wait for the next train.

This seems far better than what I was trying to do with Path Control. It might even work in TANE! The difference is that I was trying to set up with Paths - operated by triggers - and so I was having difficulty setting a "Activate level crossing" path, when the 2nd train had already passed the activating trigger... The message idea seems to work much better. Of course it does not have to be a drivable car, it can be the invisible train. It does not even need to move, just be there as a "vehicle" to receive and send commands.
Thanks very much.

 

[stagecoach]

You will need a driver for the vehicle in order to enter the driver commands don't think an invisible train can have a driver. I normally place the car in a car park or yard so it looks part of the scenery.

Edited

 

[davidbird]

...
Question 2 = yes as the message that the trigger sends is related to that engine only. ...

So, does sending a trigger message from a Driver Command overwrite the need for it to be the same engine?

You will need a driver for the vehicle in order to enter the driver commands don't think an invisible train can have a driver. ...

But there is an "Invisible Loco" which will accept a driver.

 

[stagecoach]

Sorry forget my last post it does need to be in the original sequence for the invisible train/car. I was thinking back to something else I did once sometime ago. Never tried it with a driver in an invisible train so cant comment.

 

[davidbird]

Got it! Works a treat! Many thanks stagecoach. Not quite as elegant as I would like, I need to refine it just a bit, but the concept works a treat...

Thanks again

If you're interested, here's the cdp of demo route and session. Both trains can be left on autopilot or, by deleting the autopilot command, can be driven manually.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/7e6xt0ltkou90bd/ATLSLevelCrossingSetUpTrial.cdp?dl=0

I particularly like the in-cab view of the 1st train, as it approaches the (combined) starter signal, the distant arm comes off as well...