I'll reserve judgement until I can see Auran's implementation of parametric junctions, especially of the tools for creating them and the graphic quality achieved, but there may well be a case for having both parametric and fixed track types. After all the so-called drawback of 'train set junctions' may be considered an advantage by some if they are easier to lay and are acting as templates for track spacing and tangent direction on the rest of the layout.
Article: Content creation for Trainz: A New Era
- Thread starter TrainzDev
- Start date
mezzoprezzo
Content appreciator
I like my trees
This seems to confirm that all billboard foliage objects are being consigned to some form of virtual landfill.
Given that there is no replacement method for creators to make trees for the “new era”, without huge expense to themselves, has the software really nailed the door shut on any prospect of the old style billboard trees being retained?
The term, “cardboard cutout”, feels a little derogatory. They may look that way given how the latest software renders them, but they don’t in earlier versions. When early TS versions were released (replacing TRS), I have to agree they looked awful, with the ghosting around the edges and the obvious mismatch of the lighting on the two planes. This made the grasses, shrubs and trees unusable when trying to emulate reality.
However, there has been some great work on the billboard transparency issues recently by one member, with at least one payware creator apparently successfully utilising the method. So, given the initiative by these two creators, is N3V now saying that even these won’t look OK in the new engine?
I can’t find the post by one of the N3V staff (still looking), but I recall a statement some months back that well made billboard foliage assets might be acceptable. If that is not now the case, what is the advice for foliage creators?
This seems to confirm that all billboard foliage objects are being consigned to some form of virtual landfill.
Given that there is no replacement method for creators to make trees for the “new era”, without huge expense to themselves, has the software really nailed the door shut on any prospect of the old style billboard trees being retained?
The term, “cardboard cutout”, feels a little derogatory. They may look that way given how the latest software renders them, but they don’t in earlier versions. When early TS versions were released (replacing TRS), I have to agree they looked awful, with the ghosting around the edges and the obvious mismatch of the lighting on the two planes. This made the grasses, shrubs and trees unusable when trying to emulate reality.
However, there has been some great work on the billboard transparency issues recently by one member, with at least one payware creator apparently successfully utilising the method. So, given the initiative by these two creators, is N3V now saying that even these won’t look OK in the new engine?
I can’t find the post by one of the N3V staff (still looking), but I recall a statement some months back that well made billboard foliage assets might be acceptable. If that is not now the case, what is the advice for foliage creators?
norfolksouthern37
what's a normal map?
Somehow I think that was the point.
It depends on what ones you are talking about I am sure.
I don't see how that would change. What they are pointing out is that flat cutout items are going to be pretty obvious under a high quality rendering engine.
As the demo, proof of concept TS12 SP1 hedge from ocemy, using the new config method for splines was using a mesh made from planes in a similar fashion to railcentres hedges, works perfectly in SP1, I am guessing it will continue to work with the new engine or otherwise why produce the demo using that type of mesh?
That's where I got the impetus to have a look at hedges, trees and bushes from in the first place. Need more than just two crossed planes though to give a tree some depth if you are going to use it for close in rather than background. 4 planes with two or three height segments twisted at the end of the main trunk will fill out the tree and give it a fuller appearance, yank the planes about a bit and you can reduce the symmetry you tend to get with crossed planes.
mezzoprezzo
Content appreciator
I'm now a bit confused.
Malc,
Are you saying that 4 or more planes, ± a twist, will be OK?
'Cos they will still be cardboard cutouts; just more of them than the familiar 2 or three vertical/twisted.
I was looking at the demo video which shows the leaf shadows passing across the front end of the yellow diesel loco. That looks like shading from a multi leaf speed tree - not a billboard tree and, with the "cardboard cutout" announcement in this thread, gives the impression that that will be the only permissible foliage type in the future.
Malc,
Are you saying that 4 or more planes, ± a twist, will be OK?
'Cos they will still be cardboard cutouts; just more of them than the familiar 2 or three vertical/twisted.
I was looking at the demo video which shows the leaf shadows passing across the front end of the yellow diesel loco. That looks like shading from a multi leaf speed tree - not a billboard tree and, with the "cardboard cutout" announcement in this thread, gives the impression that that will be the only permissible foliage type in the future.
I'm hoping so, either that they include a SpeedTree modeller....................
That was a proof of concept I think from what was said, done in a graphics program, not the actual engine, as for working I would imagine they will work. Cardboard cut out could just as easily refer to a simple building with a simple texture.
mezzoprezzo
Content appreciator
Let's hope you're right.
I jumped in on trees because they are such an important part of route creation. I also think its important to have a huge variety and the ability for members to make their own, simply and cheaply, to match their chosen geographical area.
I have a few single plane fences which can look OK, but I guess that these too are being discouraged, unless they are constructed as 3D (with the inevitable increase in polys).
Perhaps N3V need to answer these points. It's fine to say what shouldn't be done, but failing to say how it should be done just leads to speculation.
I jumped in on trees because they are such an important part of route creation. I also think its important to have a huge variety and the ability for members to make their own, simply and cheaply, to match their chosen geographical area.
I have a few single plane fences which can look OK, but I guess that these too are being discouraged, unless they are constructed as 3D (with the inevitable increase in polys).
Perhaps N3V need to answer these points. It's fine to say what shouldn't be done, but failing to say how it should be done just leads to speculation.
Yes, it would be nice to hear something about tree creation from N3V.
If billboard trees will look terrible, what method shall authors have to use? Modelling 3D trees in 3DS or Blender? Will a SpeedTree modeller be included in TANE?
Without trees, we should have to restrict ourselves to Saudi Arabia railways...
If billboard trees will look terrible, what method shall authors have to use? Modelling 3D trees in 3DS or Blender? Will a SpeedTree modeller be included in TANE?
Without trees, we should have to restrict ourselves to Saudi Arabia railways...
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Yes, it would be nice to hear something about tree creation from N3V.
If billboard trees will look terrible, what method shall authors have to use? Modelling 3D trees in 3DS or Blender? Will a SpeedTree modeller be included in TANE?
Without trees, we should have to restrict ourselves to Saudi Arabia railways...
I'll be looking at Blender, which has the capability for reasonable quality 3D trees and bushes > for free.
.
I'm pretty sure that you could incorporate normal mapping with billboard trees and more planes if needed to maybe overcome any issues with billboards, think jankvis is now heading along those lines now the lighting issue has been solved or solved for now.
If they don't work out I'll go and figure something else, unless they get some realistic SpeedTrees builtin or on the DLS that are not three times taller than anything in the UK and look like in some cases green mopheads. Pofigs trees are fine and correctly proportioned with variations in colour but have an annoying sparkle, which can be fixed, however the fix is not to be used according to the developer blog and they are not available via the DLS anyway. That's what triggered my tree exploits, got fed up with waiting for DLS trees that fit my route.
3d fences? I have made a few, however using lod you can loose a lot of the polys anyway, simple thing like a wire fence, are you going to see the wire 100m away, assuming it's 3d and not using an alpha mask, which looks dreadful in TS12 anyway. No you probably are not, so loose it with lod and just leave the posts.
If they don't work out I'll go and figure something else, unless they get some realistic SpeedTrees builtin or on the DLS that are not three times taller than anything in the UK and look like in some cases green mopheads. Pofigs trees are fine and correctly proportioned with variations in colour but have an annoying sparkle, which can be fixed, however the fix is not to be used according to the developer blog and they are not available via the DLS anyway. That's what triggered my tree exploits, got fed up with waiting for DLS trees that fit my route.
3d fences? I have made a few, however using lod you can loose a lot of the polys anyway, simple thing like a wire fence, are you going to see the wire 100m away, assuming it's 3d and not using an alpha mask, which looks dreadful in TS12 anyway. No you probably are not, so loose it with lod and just leave the posts.
norfolksouthern37
what's a normal map?
consider also what was said about double sided polygons. this what the cardboard cutout trees are, and will light strangely from their normal side.
Yes they will or do already now in TS12, however that issue has been solved for now by splitting / unlocking the ambient from the diffuse, for example use white ambient and black diffuse and specular and the plane is identical on both sides whatever the light angle, have to adjust the image file to compensate for the material settings. I'm not saying it will work, we'll see what actually happens in practice when the new engine appears.
Indeed, I'm already saving up for a 1TB SSD so that I'm fully 'ready' for the New Era! :hehe:
Well, folks I am willing to help regarding this but I have to wait and get Trainz: A New Era and then learn the new coding so I can then create based on this coding.
With only being 1.5 hour drive to Cleveland, it would be fantastic to meet the team next year and discuss how I could actually do this prior to the release however thru Kickstarter I do not have the $300AUD to do so.
You need to see this thread here http://forums.auran.com/trainz/show...erested-in-making-routes-for-Trainz-A-New-Era. looks good by the way.
