An interesting question of Preservation

[Klinger]

I'm pretty sure everyone knows this story.

President Franklin Roosevelt had a special railcar and a secret platform built for him to arrive in New York at Grand Central. This included an elevator to carry his whole limo with direct access to his hotel room.

All of this is still there of course, and countless programs have covered this unknown part of Grand Central's history.

And its pretty safe to say, the Blue Heavyweight baggage looking car that has been down there for as long as some people can remember, is FDR's personal railcar.

So here is a question, why has this historic car not been placed in a museum? Its simply abandoned on track 61. And an even better question, who owns this car? Is it still the property of the US Government (which would explain why its not in a museum)

And I have a few other questions, has anyone seen pictures of this car outside Grand Central. I don't remember the markings off hand, or its number, but there has to be a picture somewhere placed on a passenger train.

The reason I ask....there is a lack of preserved presidential rail cars. Lincoln's car burned around the turn of the century, it was specially built FOR Lincoln, though he never lived to ride in it, it was later modified to carry his Casket across the country.

Does anyone have any information on this beyond what I have posted?

 

[NIARTcar]

I believe that the baggage car is still there due to beuricratic red-tape..... so to speak..... from what i have heard from many sources, no-one has claimed to posesess ownership of this railcar, neither the government nor the railroads.. so many do not infact want to take responsibility for the important (and suposively expensive) historical car..... I think mainly its a matter that most of the railroads are not going to touch it until they know it belongs to, and whether they have permission to legally move it....

 

[PerRock]

this provide you with any additional info:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nVv0rMyjzQI

peter

 

[Klinger]

after a few hours research....it seems to me that absoultly no one can come up with a clear story for MNCX 002.

I read one guy saying it was an old PC car that was placed there. Others say it was a Metro North tool car (which may be partly true, Metro North Painted it blue in the 80's, but under that Metro North claims it is green)

Some say its FDR's car, others say the baggage doors are to small for a Pierce Arrow....the storys are endless, with absolutely no concrete evidence.

I even read one report that the secret service was investigating the car for its origin.

Can it really be just that hard to drag the damn thing into the sunlight and give it a good looking over. After all, how many old heavyweight armored baggage cars can there be, its worth preserving for that alone

 

[NIARTcar]

the identification # gives away its identity..... the "X" on the id means that it is a government owned, leased, or used railcar.... in addition, i cant remember where i read this information but the bogeys are of a heavier construction than others of the time (mainly to support the added weight of the car)... those bogeys were what provided a ittle bit of records for this car.... they were traced to their manufacturer which in fact had records of the purchase.... (some how was found connected with FDR...... (i cannot remember and specifics, but im pretty sure that this is accurate)

 

[Klinger]

and I have heard MNCX is registered to a grain company in Minnesota...

 

[NIARTcar]

Sounds interesting, from where did you hear this if i may ask?

edit:500th post right here.... not bad for a member that is relatively unactive half the time haha

 

[PerRock]

MNCX *MAINTENANCE, INC.
MNCX *METRO-NORTH COMMUTER RAILROAD. An interesting but false report involving MNCX has been popping
up on the news. MNCX baggage car 002 supposedly was found on a unused track
under the Waldorf Astoria Hotel in New York City. It was reported on the
Discovery Channel and Fox Television News that the car was used to carry the
Pierce Arrow limosine owned by President Franklin D. Roosevelt. Because he could
not walk, FDR supposedly rode in the limo inside this car to the Waldorf Astoria
when travelling to New York. The limo would be driven from the car and onto an
elevator which would lift it to the hotel at street level. The car was
armour plated, had exceptionally heavy trucks for a super-smooth ride, and had
bullet proof windows. In truth, 002 is nothing more than an ordinary baggage car.
MNCX +MINNESOTA CORN PROCESSORS, INC.

from:
http://www.pwrr.org/rrm/rrmm.html

peter

 

[Klinger]

Yes, I have read that report too.

Metro North claims to have repainted the car in the 1980's. so the MNCX markings could have been from that.

Perhaps Metro North decided to use the car simply because it was sitting there, and no one ever claimed it.

If people really want to know its story....the car needs to have its serial numbers checked (well, found in this case)

the problem is there is NO consistancy between any of the storys. The Metro North says one thing, a group of railfans says another, a BBC report says another, markings tell a different story.....I mean, could this be any harder to figure out

 

[PerRock]

hows this one; has some quotes from an old NY Times article

http://www.columbia.edu/~brennan/abandoned/gct61.html

peter

 

[Johnk]

That was very interesting folks. My thanks to all contributors.

John

 

[magickmaker]

I spoke with some friends of mine about this (I'm something of an urban archaeologist in my spare time) and the best reason we can come up with is logistics. The car itself, isn't alone. There's a handful of cars down there actually, though no one is exactly sure how many of them there are.

At last count there were at least five cars there, possibly more. You have to keep in mind that this was located in a series of sidings under grand central station which weren't used that much at all. In fact it only really saw use when the President was coming into town. Otherwise, these sidings saw use for storage. Currently, there's a handful of boxcars sitting there, I think one tank car, and maybe a flatcar or two, and then the former presidential baggage car.

Moving the car is problematic, since first you'd have to move the other cars that are around it, and second the car rides on friction bearings. Keeping this in mind, it's very likely that in the sixty or seventy odd years since the car was last used, those bearings are likely frozen in place. So to move the thing would require jacking, removal of the old bogies, insertion of new ones, and pulling it out. That or totally dismantling it and taking it out in pieces.

Neither answer is a perfect one. As it stands, there's just no real way to get to it, though a few preservation groups have been working on the task. One such group (I'll get the name for you later when Dave (NYC Urban Archaeologist) emails me back) has proposed preserving all the cars, and is working to get permission to pull them out one by one. It's a daunting task, looking to cost in the millions of dollars, but if they can get around all the FRA rules about moving friction bearing railcars, then hopefully they can start recovery at the end of this year. Hopefully. Sadly, the FRA isn't budging on its stance just yet, so the future looks a bit bleak.

Worst comes to worst, Dave says they may have to scrap the other cars in situ, and then pull the baggage car out on shop trucks, but the ceiling clearance there is so low that they fear they wouldn't be able to jack it high enough to get new bogies under it.