AI operation.

[nicky9499]

Track direction markers, as far as possible, make the track work in one direction only. I'm not very sure if this is the case with Trackmarks as well, because most of the time when I tell a train to drive to/ drive via a trackmark in opposite direction of the train, things may get a little messy.

I'm building a fictional mountainous line, and was wondering about gradients. I've come across a few forms; e.g. 1 in 2 / 2% / 2 degrees and so on. Can anyone give a list of different forms of expressing gradients, how to convert them from one to another and what is the maximum accepted grade on most railways? I realize I have some really steep looking lines and got worried. =\

 

[Hot_Box_Detector]

Don't know about conversions, but , generally speaking, prototypical RR considers 2% steep. You may see some at 2.5% but only in special cases. There are always exceptions to that. With Trainz you may be able to get away with much steeper grades.

 

[leeferr]

I try to stay below 2.5%, but I've got some short grades of 3.5%. Trainz could handle steeper depending on the consist, but grades ususally don't get much steeper than that. A book could be written discussing grades, tractive power, friction and all of the other physics involved, but to be safe, try to stick below 2 or 2.5% and you should be okay. Most of my grades run about 1.5%

 

[Accipiter777]

Track direction markers, as far as possible, make the track work in one direction only. I'm not very sure if this is the case with Trackmarks as well, because most of the time when I tell a train to drive to/ drive via a trackmark in opposite direction of the train, things may get a little messy.=\

Trackmarks are not directional in the manor Direction markers are, however, I've found, that some trackmarks are "Unseen" by the AI and are driven over and ignored, the AI eventually stops and simply does nothing. So when you toss in these 4 variables (1. train heading, 2. direction of movement, 3. direction Trackmark is pointing, 4. and what command is used to get there) will produce this unwanted outcome.

as for your gradient, I also dont go more then 2%. with exception to the hump.

 

[stagecoach]

http://www.cactus2000.de/uk/unit/massgrd.shtml gradient converter

 

[nicky9499]

Thanks all for the advice. I try my best to keep the grade at a maximum of 2 percent and a minimum of 150m radius curves (is this considered tight for a mountain mainline?). I know this doesn't really fit the topic, but how do I get about using the "uk tunnel" dighole and splines? I've tried fitting a dighole in the side of a cliff, the connecting the tunnel spline to the dighole, but that doesn't work. Also, does anyone has ideas how to keep consistent curves? For example, in the case of two tracks at 90 degrees, straightening track don't help much, because the track in between tends to stretch from one point to another in a 45 degree fashion, and doesn't really form a pretty curve.

 

[Bill69]

Thanks all for the advice. I try my best to keep the grade at a maximum of 2 percent and a minimum of 150m radius curves (is this considered tight for a mountain mainline?). I know this doesn't really fit the topic, but how do I get about using the "uk tunnel" dighole and splines? I've tried fitting a dighole in the side of a cliff, the connecting the tunnel spline to the dighole, but that doesn't work. Also, does anyone has ideas how to keep consistent curves? For example, in the case of two tracks at 90 degrees, straightening track don't help much, because the track in between tends to stretch from one point to another in a 45 degree fashion, and doesn't really form a pretty curve.

Hi nicky9499,
For a smooth curve only straighten the end tracks and allow the centre piece of track to bend. Also insert a spline point at the centre of the middle track then drag it outwards until your curve looks constant.
I will do a screenshot if you don't know what I mean.

Cheers,
Bill69

 

[AussieNightcrawler]

Track direction markers, as far as possible, make the track work in one direction only. I'm not very sure if this is the case with Trackmarks as well, because most of the time when I tell a train to drive to/ drive via a trackmark in opposite direction of the train, things may get a little messy.

Hi,

As said above by Accipiter777, Directional Markers are different to Trackmarks, but I can say that I have never had an AI driver "ignore" a Trackmark unless 'something' has gone wrong. Like the Ai driver has 'missed' unloading/loading a wagon, he gets confused on what to do next, so he decides to continue on his orders but 'skips' a few commands, like drive via commands.

I use Directional Markers, Trackmarks and Track Priority Markers very heavly on my own layouts and never have any real problems, placement of these and also speed limit signs are critical in correct workings of AI drivers.

 

[mononlaf]

I've had a problem like that of Accipiter - Using AI commands as part of a session, I send a diesel train from where it is waiting in a railyard north to a mine, unload it, then send it back to the same yard - different trackmark than from where it started. About every third run of the session, the AI driver goes right on past the yard and ends up on some spur to the south if I don't catch him first. On the other session runs, he does what he is supposed to.

The unloading is never complete - the mine fuel dump fills, and the train heads back south with one, two, or more cars full or only partially unloaded. But, the engineer has not missed unloading anything that should have been unloaded.

There's another interesting aspect to this -- when I catch the lost driver south of the yard, I interrupt his schedule and give him a new trackmark somewhere north of the yard he missed. Does not matter which trackmark, because when he gets back to the yard, he either goes right to the correct trackmark and stops or else he stops on the through track and waits for me to send him to the correct trackmark.

Dick

 

[mononlaf]

AI on the Austral Bay v5a Route

As long as we are on the AI operation thread, I have another question.

Philskene's Austral Bay v5a Route, an interesting and fun route, has an idiosyncracy that I have not run into before. It is actually 3 routes knit together - Austral Bay, By the River, and Mad River routes combined.

Austral Bay and By the River have portals, and Phil has sessions that send AI trains between them over AI tracks that sometimes merge with the non-AI train's tracks.

My question has to do with the point that even when running my own sessions completely separate from any of Phil's, I cannot set up my own AI train to run on non-AI track except between the points where the non-AI and the AI tracks merge. You can run AI within local yards, but as soon as you try to go out on the main, you are done.

The Mad River portion of this combined route has no separate AI trackage, so is fully open to my setting up AI trains.

Can somebody explain what goes on with the AI tracks and how I might get around it? I've got a session for the Mad River Division in which I keep the generating station in continuous operation using a couple of opposing coal trains, but the oil fields and refinery are down in the Austral Bay Division where I can't run my own AI. So, I have a couple strings of loaded diesel fuel tank cars sitting in a yard to be dispatched to the mine when wanted -- but it would be more satisfying to automate diesel supply from oil field to refinery to mine.

 

[stagecoach]

No AI tracks only AI drivers.
I dont have the route you mention but would assume that if you look at his session and check the first window he has rules placed that make the route run fully. As you started a new session you dont have these rules so it wont work. The set up of signals, levers etc has to be done in each session. AI did not complete the unload this ive found causes confusion sometimes. By stopping the train and restarting you have cleared what was left of the unload command

 

[Accipiter777]

I've had a problem like that of Accipiter - Using AI commands as part of a session, I send a diesel train from where it is waiting in a railyard north to a mine, unload it, then send it back to the same yard - different trackmark than from where it started. About every third run of the session, the AI driver goes right on past the yard and ends up on some spur to the south if I don't catch him first. On the other session runs, he does what he is supposed to.

The unloading is never complete - the mine fuel dump fills, and the train heads back south with one, two, or more cars full or only partially unloaded. But, the engineer has not missed unloading anything that should have been unloaded.

There's another interesting aspect to this -- when I catch the lost driver south of the yard, I interrupt his schedule and give him a new trackmark somewhere north of the yard he missed. Does not matter which trackmark, because when he gets back to the yard, he either goes right to the correct trackmark and stops or else he stops on the through track and waits for me to send him to the correct trackmark.

Dick

Also note, out the many Trackmarks, it is ALWAYS the same one missed. also note, its not missed by all drivers, and to further complicate it, its not always the same driver that miss's it. VERY inconsistant it is. I removed the TM from the route and schedule, put in a new one, and it now works. but only under the Drive Via. Drive To: will not work. strange....

 

[Dap]

More AI problems

I have experienced some AI problems on my railroad also. I have a train emmitted by the north portal that drives to a yard, drops of some cars and picks up some empties and departs via the south portal. A half hour latter, this train emits from the south portal, drops off some cars and picks up some others and departs via the north portal.

If I run a scenerio with just the first part (train from north to south) or just the second part (train from south to north) everything works perfectly time after time.

If I run a scenerio with both parts, the second part always hangs up with an engine waiting for track clearence while exicuting a Couple To command.

Any ideas what could cause this?

 

[nicky9499]

Yet more problems.

I have a new problem. There's this section on my mainline which goes through alot of mountain. The distance from one station to the other is an approximate forty kilometers with a number of 04 signals along the way. The mainline is double tracked, there are no crossovers no spurs, branches whatever. When I tell a train at Station A to drive to Plaform 2 of Station B, I get an error message saying that industry track could not be located (still trying to convert the tga file). I've checked very thoroughly but couldn't find any breaks in the trackage. What's the problem here?

 

[nicky9499]

I was wondering, if I have a long stretch of track, should I use 04s or 05s to split the signal blocks?

 

[Bill69]

I have a new problem. There's this section on my mainline which goes through alot of mountain. The distance from one station to the other is an approximate forty kilometers with a number of 04 signals along the way. The mainline is double tracked, there are no crossovers no spurs, branches whatever. When I tell a train at Station A to drive to Plaform 2 of Station B, I get an error message saying that industry track could not be located (still trying to convert the tga file). I've checked very thoroughly but couldn't find any breaks in the trackage. What's the problem here?

Hi nicky9499,
Do you have any bridges in this section of track, are all your spline points yellow or are there some that are white? A bridge is a likely point of trouble, rail not connected even if it looks ok. White spline points mean the track has not been set at a fixed height, one rail could be higher than the adjoining rail hence a bad joint. Signals will not make any difference to the AI finding an industry, they will only make a difference to the speed the train travels at, i.e. default speed if you have no signals.
Check the rails again cause the only thing that will stop the AI from finding an industry is a break in the rails.

Cheers,
Bill69

 

[Hot_Box_Detector]

... I have a train emmitted by the north portal that drives to a yard, drops of some cars and picks up some empties and departs via the south portal. A half hour latter, this train emits from the south portal, drops off some cars and picks up some others and departs via the north portal...

Dap: I would say you are lucky...I have never been able to get any train to do anything after it is emitted from a portal, it usually is stripped of it's driver also !

 

[fran1]

Nicky, 04's are fine for block signals. Is platform 2(station b) on the same side as platform at station A, maybe a reason why it can't be located. Re track, drive train manually, this will tell you if it's ok. Laborious but efficient at finding faults.
Dap, try removing signals where couple to command is being used. had the same problem, drivers just sitting, waiting.
Hot Box, Use portal basic with a 10 sec delay prior to any command. I have consists in 1 out of 2 every 4 mins without a hitch (well almost). also don't save with a consist between portals.

 

[nicky9499]

I've tried driving the entire length between A and B, the track is perfect, so bad joints nothing. Playfrom 2 is on the same saide that I'm travelling on, so there is no need to crossover to the other track. Still trying, still failing. AI just stops responding at the "drive to platform 2" command.

 

[JCitron]

I've tried driving the entire length between A and B, the track is perfect, so bad joints nothing. Playfrom 2 is on the same saide that I'm travelling on, so there is no need to crossover to the other track. Still trying, still failing. AI just stops responding at the "drive to platform 2" command.

Hi Nicky,

Try following the track in Surveyor and check any of your direction markers (yellow arrow objects). This is to make sure that they're all facing the correct direction otherwise the AI drivers will give you an error.

John