A typical example of stupid signalling in Trainz (just for fun)

It's nothing bad about Jointed Rail signals - I like their stuff and often use it. But look here at this example. This could happen probably with every signal system.

A BNSF train goes from East Portal to West (Midwest Grain route; commands "Portal Timetable rule" and "Navigate to"). He got a red signal at the junction.

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From the right goes train from West Portal to North (also with commands "Portal Timetable Rule" and "Navigate to"). Train which goes from East Portal after few minutes got green! You should expect a train crash, shouldn't you:

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No, happy end is here, because both engineers are David Copperfield sons probably:

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OK, that's all for today. I hope you laughed just like me :hehe:
 
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that is usually caused by the ai navigate to command or else the signal is too close to a portal.

what happens with navigate to is that the ai driver will switch a junction ahead of the signal causing the signal to become clear, then the ai moves through the signal and decides to throw the switch back the way it was. since he is beyond the signal it can no longer protect the route. i have noted this happening ages ago.
 
that is usually caused by the ai navigate to command or else the signal is too close to a portal.

what happens with navigate to is that the ai driver will switch a junction ahead of the signal causing the signal to become clear, then the ai moves through the signal and decides to throw the switch back the way it was. since he is beyond the signal it can no longer protect the route. i have noted this happening ages ago.

It makes sense. The train on the first screen comes from East Portal which is very close to the signal and more - this BNSF train is very long.
 
My 2 cents. The signals are useless until the driver gains control of the train. Until then, the Portal owns the train and cares not about the signal. IE train length say 5500 ft but it is 5000 ft from portal to sig is no joy as the train is being built. If the train is 5000 ft and it's 5500 ft to the sig, the train SHOULD behave.

Now for the issue here.

From the pics, I see 2 trains diverging right at a pair of turnouts. As built, the in game logic does not let the trains see each other as they do not share any piece of ROW, there for, will allow the trains to proceed as the unused piece of track to the left of the diverges is in essence invisible to the logic. I prevent this using the ASB crossover set to control the sigs.
 
Now for the issue here.

From the pics, I see 2 trains diverging right at a pair of turnouts. As built, the in game logic does not let the trains see each other as they do not share any piece of ROW, there for, will allow the trains to proceed as the unused piece of track to the left of the diverges is in essence invisible to the logic. I prevent this using the ASB crossover set to control the sigs.

I see I must try to use short consist coming from portal instead of the long one...
 
If you have room to do so, you could try moving the guard sig farther away from the portal or portal farther away from the sig). You just need room to allow the train to finish building before it hits the signal.
 
The other way is to put an extra baseboard on and put the portals way out there. This will give the portal trains time to fully emit and initialize. Remember the portal-emitted trains are "blind", meaning they have no driver commands or driver until the whole train is emitted from the portal. Once they have fully emitted, they will become regular driver-assigned consists which will act like the manually created ones.

Because the consists are blind, they have no way of knowing there's a signal set against them or a junction that is incorrect, and may even derail. So to prevent the accidents such as this from occurring, I make sure there is plenty of headroom for the trains to be fully emitted from the portals first before they even reach the full route.

John
 
OK, I tried it again, with the short consist.

Here you see HLCX short train waiting on red:

vince_black_20160126_0003_zpsb1lm82l4.jpg


But when long BNSF train appears, HLCX trains starts moving and than both trains blocks this junction:

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Finally I had to back down HLCX train. He waited for BNSF train's passing and when track was cleared, he started to move back to East Portal, althought you can see he has set command "Navigate to > West Portal"

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LOL, LOL, LOL :'(:udrool::hehe:
 
What I do is place a trackmark and the signal about 30 meters short of the switch (so the AI is not in the standard 20 meter radius of the switch) with a drive to trackmark, wait for 10 seconds, drive to or via next trackmark. The AI will not attempt to grab control of the switch until the 10 second wait is over, so you don't get the chaos from 2 AI trains fighting over a junction starting from 5 miles away.
 
That's what I finally supposed - it's not good to let trains just go from one portal to other, even if you have yellow trackmarks there and enough of signals. Next time I will use commands like "Navigate to trackmark", "Wait For" or "Wait for Trigger". Thanks you made me sure about it ;)
 
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You said the "N" word!

"Next time I will use commands like "Navigate to trackmark""

Unfortunately this is a common mistake simply because navigate is ON by default, drive to/via is OFF by default.

First thing when creating a new session is to edit the session rules, select the driver commands and edit that. Scroll down and find DRIVE TO, DRIVE VIA TRACKMARK, and DRIVE TO TRACKMARK and click the check boxes to turn those ON.

Then when setting up a schedule library use ONLY the DRIVE commands, NEVER use NAVIGATE.

Main difference is NAVIGATE is like a shark, keep moving regardless. Doesn't matter where you go or if the path you choose eventually leads to the next trackmark or not, the goal is to keep moving. Got a train in New York set DRIVE TO Chicago or NAVIGATE TO Chicago, either one will head for Chicago. The problem is when a train in Cleveland enters the mainline and blocks it. DRIVE TO will stop in Pittsburgh and wait until the other train clears the path then continue to Chicago, NAVIGATE TO will back up through Toronto to Halifax, run down through Texas to Mexico, spend several weeks wandering around South America before finally coming into Chicago from Minnesota if it doesn't get lost completely.

NAVIGATE can be entertaining to watch, but if your objective is logical and efficient operation DRIVE is the only way to go.
 
"Next time I will use commands like "Navigate to trackmark""

Unfortunately this is a common mistake simply because navigate is ON by default, drive to/via is OFF by default.

First thing when creating a new session is to edit the session rules, select the driver commands and edit that. Scroll down and find DRIVE TO, DRIVE VIA TRACKMARK, and DRIVE TO TRACKMARK and click the check boxes to turn those ON.

Then when setting up a schedule library use ONLY the DRIVE commands, NEVER use NAVIGATE.

Main difference is NAVIGATE is like a shark, keep moving regardless. Doesn't matter where you go or if the path you choose eventually leads to the next trackmark or not, the goal is to keep moving. Got a train in New York set DRIVE TO Chicago or NAVIGATE TO Chicago, either one will head for Chicago. The problem is when a train in Cleveland enters the mainline and blocks it. DRIVE TO will stop in Pittsburgh and wait until the other train clears the path then continue to Chicago, NAVIGATE TO will back up through Toronto to Halifax, run down through Texas to Mexico, spend several weeks wandering around South America before finally coming into Chicago from Minnesota if it doesn't get lost completely.

NAVIGATE can be entertaining to watch, but if your objective is logical and efficient operation DRIVE is the only way to go.

Thank you so much for explanation a difference between NAVIGATE TO and DRIVE TO, I didn't know about it. Describing NAVIGATE TO was funny also :-). That's why I was sometimes surprised when train started to go to the totally different places than I expected. He simply searched ANY way, doesn't matter which place will go throught.
 
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