A question about editing someone elses assets

[cascaderailroad]

You know how easy it is to create something in HO trains ... you can kitbash someone else's model.

What if it was that easy to do so in Trainz ? That would be a wonderful thing.

But this brings into question about piracy, editing someone elses work, and releasing it as your own, or without permission ... which is WRONG !

But if it was easy to edit ... you could edit it ... and send the revised asset back to the original creator ... and they could review your changes ... and either approve it, an release it as their own ... or reject it ... and the asset would not see the light of day.

I guess it all comes down to morals ... as to edit and release without the original creators approval, would be piracy ... and that is something that I would never do ... and no one else should ever do, under a code of ethics.

Say a creator made a painting of the Mona Lisa, but it had an ugly moustache ... but I edited the painting and gave her a beautiful smile (albiet a bit crooked) ... the original crator could take a look at my editing work, and say: WoWza' Sheza' Beautiful ! And the original creator could re-release the finished edited product. as his own improved creation.

Opening an IM or PM file is hard, and editing it might take the original GMax files ... so this is almost impossible.

But what if this was possible ... and we all could make a constructive edit of an asset ... with ease ?

I quess it will never come into play though, as most creators hold their assets close to heart, and do not want them edited at all ... which is kinda' sad.

Working togther ... We could all create wonderful edits of assets.

Case in point: I would love to edit out the circular concrete apron on Bendorsey's beautiful EBT Roundhouse, and add in an ashpit ... but it is nearly impossible to do so ... and asking the original creator to do so might be gimmie piggish, and highly complex, where as they don't have the time to do so, just for you ... as they are very busy persons.

This has been another brain, aerophagenic expulsion, by cascaderailroad

We now return you to your regularly scheduled program ...

 

[oknotsen]

Case in point: I would love to edit out the circular concrete apron on Bendorsey's beautiful EBT Roundhouse, and add in an ashpit ... but it is nearly impossible to do so ... and asking the original creator to do so might be gimmie piggish, and highly complex, where as they don't have the time to do so, just for you ... as they are very busy persons.

No offence but isn't this just trying to get out easy?
I mean, you know he reads the forum almost every day, so I am sure he will read this. You know that when reading a topic like this, he usually suggests to either do it himself or will work with you in some sort of way (since that's that just the nice person he is).

Step up, be a man, just send him a PM and ask him; don't do it this lousy way knowing he will usually respond anyway.
And if Ben does not want to help you, I am sure he also is man enough to say so.
Whatever the outcome is, live with the answer and save yourself posts like this; you don't need it and you should not do crap like this to yourself. To be honest: A post like this gives me more a gimmy pig feeling then just asking someone in private.

Again, no offence.

 

[slabay]

I will say that Ben is really good about stuff like that, but I agree with the general premise. It would be nice to be able to kitbash stuff. There is very little of that available right now. Halbert's U30C was very kitbash-able with individual parts, I have been able to add "mesh" assets available on the DLS by other creators (I'm working on one too) to locomotives via attachment points, and so on.

 

[tmz06003]

Opening an IM or PM file is hard, and editing it might take the original GMax files ... so this is almost impossible.

But what if this was possible ... and we all could make a constructive edit of an asset ... with ease ?

I quess it will never come into play though, as most creators hold their assets close to heart, and do not want them edited at all ... which is kinda' sad.

Working togther ... We could all create wonderful edits of assets.

...

I used to buy OO gauge models from major Railway model manufacturers and always ended up changing them to suit my needs. Moving on to Trainz I've applied the same principles using my in depth knowledge of the prototypes.

The difference is that I've found a widespread support from other Trainz creators who have kindly supplied me with their base meshes to rework. In each case I've pitched my ideas to other creators and found that generally they have allowed me to work with many of their own meshes. This even applies to N3V who supplied me with meshes for the TRS2010 built in HST which I've reshaped for them and is now built in post TS12 SP1.

There are also some meshes that are released to the Trainz community, for the Uk scene, one is the class 58 which I've just finished a rework and uploaded it to the DLS featuring scripted drivers, lights, nameplates and sorted out a few issues along the way such as resizing the front windows. Paul Hobbs kindly supplied many of his shunter meshes to me which I've used to cover many UK shunters quite comprehensively. Another creator is WEN who I owe a big thanks to for his Fowler shunter meshes which I've also put to good use. Bendorsey even allowed me and another creator to modify his Tinsley depot asset.

I'd like to take this opportunity to thank all of these creators, many not mentioned, and reiterate the current procedure of asking for permission to edit a base GMax mesh which I've found works very successfully.

IMO to allow opening of .im meshes would be a very bad idea as it strips the element of permission out of the equation and could be open to abuse.

 

[Lots_Trains]

Very interesting subject, and usually gets everyone's heckles up

You know how easy it is to create something in HO trains ... you can kitbash someone else's model.

What if it was that easy to do so in Trainz ? That would be a wonderful thing.

You can now there are tools around to do it, you are just not allowed to mention them here. (dunno why because you can use them for a legitimate reasons!!!! but bad people can use them for piracy) So powers at be have decided to play god.

But this brings into question about piracy, editing someone elses work, and releasing it as your own, or without permission ... which is WRONG !

But if it was easy to edit ... you could edit it ... and send the revised asset back to the original creator ... and they could review your changes ... and either approve it, an release it as their own ... or reject it ... and the asset would not see the light of day.

I practically rebuild everything I use in my Trainz, at the beginning I did contact a few content creators to see if they wanted the new asset, I mean I didn't want to release it, just give them the asset and the all files related to it and they could claim it as they own I didn't care, but wow they sure got there nickers in a twist about it, so I gave up on that as a bad idea. So now I just do it for myself, NEVER TO BE RELEASED. I'm happy doing my own thing AND ITS LEGAL.

Another thing about doing this is you can really see who are the good content creators and who are the shockers, when you open up the files and look inside. The sketchup stuff wow, but yah pretty much rebuild that stuff entirely.

The big thing about rebuild from existing assets is it saves time, which in my life is all to short. So I say a special thankx to all those content creators who have saved me heaps of time, you have given me years on my life.

The thing is and it it is the most important thing is you must never release the stuff that is the one and only rule!!!!. You could argue the "significant modification" thing about copyright, but its not worth the hassle as it would more about who could win the argument in public, as not many would have the skills to look inside and see how much has really changed or what has gone on. And realistically who's got the money here to take such litigation. So it would come down to a uninformed political type fight. who needs that crap.

Hmmm interesting subject

oknotsen you can't really attack the guy and then say "no offense" your a shocker.

Cheers

Lots

 

[cascaderailroad]

No offence but isn't this just trying to get out easy?
I mean, you know he reads the forum almost every day, so I am sure he will read this. You know that when reading a topic like this, he usually suggests to either do it himself or will work with you in some sort of way (since that's that just the nice person he is).

Step up, be a man, just send him a PM and ask him; don't do it this lousy way knowing he will usually respond anyway.
And if Ben does not want to help you, I am sure he also is man enough to say so.
Whatever the outcome is, live with the answer and save yourself posts like this; you don't need it and you should not do crap like this to yourself. To be honest: A post like this gives me more a gimmy pig feeling then just asking someone in private.

Again, no offence.

I am in constant contact with Ben ... He is absolutely the greatest !

He is creating all our EBT RR buildings ... and they are absolutely fabulous !

I oftentimes hate to bother him with all my multitudes of requests ... as I know he is a very busy man ... and I am considerate of his time.

 

[bendorsey]

I'm probably the strangest Trainzer you will ever meet.

I don't run Trainz other then to test items I make in Gmax before uploading them. I do not make routes, run routes, or pretty much everything the vast majority of Trainzers do. I jokingly call myself the demi-god of gimmie-pigs since if it wasn't for them (the polite ones that is and most are) I wouldn't have 6000+ items on the DLS, lol.

As for the roundhouse I already made a version for him with 7 extra tracks, no dighole, and no apron for him to experiment with. To me digholes are a necessary evil, lol.

Ben

 

[Dymond]

So are we talking editing them with the thought of posting them up for other people's consumption or doing it for your own enjoyment? I can't see the harm in editing an asset if you are just using it locally, but if you make changes and then try to say its yours, well then that becomes something else.

 

[oknotsen]

I am in constant contact with Ben ... He is absolutely the greatest !

Then please consider my reaction as not written.
Again, it was in no way intended to offend you.

oknotsen you can't really attack the guy and then say "no offense" your a shocker.

You see it as an attack, I don't. I can see how it could be misinterpreted, which is way I added the "no offence". I consider cascaderailroad stong enough to just ask Ben and thought he was in doubt about that and posted the topic because of that. I thought he needed the last push in that direction, yet little did I know he was already in constant contact with him.
So I was wrong, I admitted that by writing the first part of this reply.

I jokingly call myself the demi-god of gimmie-pigs since if it wasn't for them (the polite ones that is and most are) I wouldn't have 6000+ items on the DLS, lol.

lol, yeah you probably are.
Let me take the opportunity to again thank you for all your great work.