A little info on US rail please

bassist118

Suffering for his art.
I've recently started a route bassed around the industerial district of Seattle but I live in the UK so I a little thick when it comes to US rail so I just wanted a little info concerning US loading gauges.

What is the lowest hight of bridges over rail lines?

What is the minimum distance between double tracks?

What distance are US platforms from the rails?

Which passenger and freight railroad companies serve Seattle?

Thanks for the help in advance

:D

Andy
 
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Andy,
You know, I don't know the answer to most of your question, but I'll give what little info I can.
What is the lowest height of bridges over rail lines? I don't know
What is the minimum distance between double tracks? I don't know.
What distance are US platforms from the rails? I don't know

Which passenger and freight railroad companies serve Seattle? I do know.

BNSF (Burlington Northern Santa Fe) and UP (Union Pacific) for freight. AMTRAK for Passenger service. Sounder Trains for commuter service between Seattle and points north (Everett) and south (Tacoma). If you PM me, I can provide some pics of the Tacoma area and I might have some in Seattle.
John
 
UP, BNSF and AMTK

3382296693_b40ed06fd9.jpg
<----Amtrak Cascades. (A part of Amtrak.)
BNSF%20Railway%20BNSF%202266_Seattle%20WA_Scott%20Barr_2007-05-10_58303.jpg
<----Burlington Northern Santa Fe Railway.
Union%20Pacific%20UP%203868_Seattle%20WA_Stan%20Lytle_2007-09-07_72766.jpg
<----Union Pacific Railroad.
Pardon the size of the images.
 
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I believe that Double Stacks have made almost all RR clearances 21 foot. I would make sure that bridges be able to clear the smoke stack of a large steam loco by @ 1 meter, and this would represent old time heights prior to 1990.

There is a GFisher "PRR Track Guide" that has 13 foot centers, I also use MB US Quad Line as a temporary track spacing template, and that places track spacing at @ 3 meters. Spline points will overlap looking like a figure "8" that has a small football in the center. Close track spacing looks more prototypical, and makes center ballast unecessary. Trainz don't slideswipe anyway, they ghost right on through each other. Most mainline track raduis is 250m or greater, except in switching areas.
Min 250m Radius: http://i525.photobucket.com/albums/cc339/cascaderailroad/Track16.jpg
Correct: http://i525.photobucket.com/albums/cc339/cascaderailroad/Track15.jpg MB US Quad Line track
Incorrect: http://i525.photobucket.com/albums/cc339/cascaderailroad/Screen_023-2.jpg
 
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What is the lowest hight of bridges over rail lines?
What is the minimum distance between double tracks?
What distance are US platforms from the rails?

This all varies a bit from railroad to railroad and from state to state as there were often state regulations to follow. It also varies with the time period as modern railroads often work to greater spacings than in the past.

The Boston and Maine and the PRR both required 22'-0" clear from top of rail to an overhead obstruction like a bridge. They also used 13'-0" center to center between tracks, although modern railroads may use a bit more, and in some cases as in the Powder River Basin they use 25'-0" spacings so that they can run trains through at speed while they work on an adjoining track.

The B&M used 9'-0" from the track center to an obstruction like a catenary post, while the PRR used 10'-0.

A high platform (for freight) would be set back 3'-9" from the guage line of the nearest rail and 3'-5" above the top of rail, although many lines used 4'-0" above the top of rail.

The PRR set it's passenger low platforms at 6" above top of rail and 2'-6" from the gauge line.
 
Thanks everyone for the quick and detailed responses I'll post some sceenies as soon as I can get a view without the yellow surveyor squares all over it.

The thing about US marshaling or switching yards is that they made me realise just how rubbish my computer is, just finished the track-work for Seattle's container terminal with lots of llllllllaaaaaaaggggggg I'm a little scared to do the scenery.

Btw in real life switching situations what is the minimum curve radius because according to google earth the track running into the nearby steelworks has a radius of 100m (sorry I was brought up on metric, I have a funny feeling googles imperial - metric converter will be used quite alot on this project) but that seems a little sharp to me so I artistically interpreted it by another 50m.

Thanks again all you kind peeps.

:Y:

Andy
 
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Union Pacific's website has a very exhaustive section dealing entirely with current construction standards for industrial track (though I'm sure this can extend some-what to non-freight service as well) complete with diagrams, drawings and technical documents for all things track-and-trackside-construction-related.

Based on their specifications, the minimum allowable parallel track distance is 13 feet, which is about 4 meters between track centers, though mainline and running track will likely be wider up to about 20 feet or so depending on available space and the amount of rail traffic.

Page 4 & 5 of the Track Design PDF from the above link specifically relates to any and all clearances above and/or beside track, which should extend to bridges as well.

Platform height will depend on the specific type of passenger service running. The Amtrak fleet along the West Coast here tends to prefer very low platforms, almost ground level essentially. There's a couple asset on the DLS made specially for low platform rolling stock like this, let me see if I can pull up a couple for reference *Glances over to CMP* a-hah! Leeferr's Crystal Springs Station <kuid:262137:10386> has a platform height exemplifying the kind of platform you'd see at an Amtrak Depot.

I remember seeing a few platform splines on the DLS a few weeks ago made with low-platform commuter service in mind (as I was looking for the same thing :) ) but I can't for the life of me remember what they were called. But I do know they are on there somewhere.

Any sort of Inter-Urban or light rail may end up having entirely different platforms heights as well, likely something higher than what Amtrak would typically have. You may want to research into Seattle's surrounding area and see if they have any light-rail or subway system in place and keep that in mind as well when laying stations.

According to NMRA's standard practices, the largest allowable minimum radius for Class P traffic - which is essentially the biggest of the big in terms of being able to accommodate various sizes of rolling stock(as per their website) the minimum curve radius is 288 feet for a full-scale (i.e. real) railroad, which equates to about 87.8m.

As stated above, UP and BNSF operate practically in tandem all over the place, especially the West Coast and mid-west. From what I've read they have some sort of cooperative track-right's lease agreement or something, so it's not uncommon to see a string of inter-modal flats pulled by a double-header with both BNSF and UP locos at the same time - though that's my observations from my area and I'm two States down from Seattle , Washington, but I'd venture to guess it's not much different that far north.

And if you plan on doing any heavy passenger service with Amtrak stock, don't forget to grab the SuperLiner set off the DLS and a couple P-42's!
 
I live near Seattle and my work as courier has me in Seattle proper on a daily basis.
With business down heavily, I spend my downtime in between deliveries railfanning.

Lately I've been hanging around the Stacy Street yard watching them kick cars around. Is this the yard you've been modeling?

Is the steelworks you mention Seaport Steel at the intersection of the Alaskan Way Viaduct and the West Seattle Freeway? Or the big Nucor rebar plant to the west?

In any case, I'm in the area everyday. If you need any photos or other info, drop me a PM.

Todd
 
one thing ive noticed, is that on double tracks, theres a signal faceing both directions on either side of the track, no gantries and none in the center (at least on the bnsf mainline out of tacoma)
 
Union Pacific's website has a very exhaustive section dealing entirely with current construction standards for industrial track (though I'm sure this can extend some-what to non-freight service as well) complete with diagrams, drawings and technical documents for all things track-and-trackside-construction-related.

And if you plan on doing any heavy passenger service with Amtrak stock, don't forget to grab the SuperLiner set off the DLS and a couple P-42's!

Wow thanks for the detailed info thats helped no end and I have 2010 so I have plenty of P-32ACDMs will these do as they look similar and I'm lucky enough to have connyxys Amtrak Coaches although I can't get em to work in 2010 as yet, I've managed to convert the Marc Bi-levels but they're pretty useless for this project I presume

:Y:

The Reading Northern has published a detailed manual for its customers giving all of the details you requested and quite a bit more. You can find it here http://www.readingnorthern.com/RBMNTrackSpecifications.pdf

Bernie

Again thanks all this info is invaluable

:Y:

I live near Seattle and my work as courier has me in Seattle proper on a daily basis.
With business down heavily, I spend my downtime in between deliveries railfanning.

Lately I've been hanging around the Stacy Street yard watching them kick cars around. Is this the yard you've been modeling?

Is the steelworks you mention Seaport Steel at the intersection of the Alaskan Way Viaduct and the West Seattle Freeway? Or the big Nucor rebar plant to the west?

In any case, I'm in the area everyday. If you need any photos or other info, drop me a PM.

Todd

The yard is I'm modeling is the just off to the East of the intersection between Harbor Ave, Admiral Way and the West Seattle Freeway, and yea the steel works is the Nucor one, thanks for letting me know what they do.
I'll probobly be bugging you a bit for your local knowladge as a courier you'll have a good idea of what raillinked industeries produce what, Google streetview is a good resorce but only if the line runs close to a road, I combine it with Google Earth tho so I can get an idea about land heights and measuring headings and distances and you can only get info on a sparce number of industeries although you can find every eating place.

If you ever decide to do a model of our small quaint network around Manchester, Liverpool or Warringon (NorthWestern England) then let me know.

:Y:

Thanks all for the great help

:Y:

Andy
 
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The yard is I'm modeling is the just off to the East of the intersection between Harbor Ave, Admiral Way and the West Seattle Freeway, and yea the steel works is the Nucor one, thanks for letting me know what they do.
I'll probobly be bugging you a bit for your local knowladge as a courier you'll have a good idea of what raillinked industeries produce what, Google streetview is a good resorce but only if the line runs close to a road, I combine it with Google Earth tho so I can get an idea about land heights and measuring headings and distances and you can only get info on a sparce number of industeries although you can find every eating place.

Andy

OK, that's a Nucor Steel plant. Grew up just up the hill from them, could see the glow of the furnaces at night from our house. I've actually made deliveries there numerous times.
It was built in 1905 as Seattle Steel by Henry Piggot, founder of PACCAR (makers of railroad cars, Kenworth trucks, etc). Bought by Bethlehem Steel in 1930, sold in 1985. Gone through a couple of owners since then, currently Nucor.
They melt down scrap metal and make primarily rebar with some flat, round and angle stock as well. Trucks with rebar loads leaving and trucks with scrap metal coming in would add to the realism.

They do have some super tight radius track. Once or twice I've been delivering there where a loco was shoving cars past the guard shack. Looked the the gondola was gonna fall off the track, it was so tight!

They have two GE 44-tonners for motive power, painted green. Rolling stock is gondolas. All are old cars bought from a variety of owners, so they're in an array of different paint schemes and designs. No two are alike. All are seriously beaten up.

The 44-tonners work on the plant moving cars around, they also go off the property to get loaded cars and return empties.
They travel along the northern-most tracks (right next to the West Seattle Freeway) to the storage tracks north of the Freeway and west of the large container yard. You can see the gondolas lined up there in Google Earth.
They also travel to a storage yard on the Duwamish River to get scrap that has come in by barge or truck. Look directly east of Nucor, south a bit on E Marginal Way S where it intersects with S Idaho St. You'll see a small yard with mountains of scrap metal and some tracks. In fact, in Google Earth you can see one of the green 44-tonners there with gondolas ready to be loaded.
There get there on the BNSF tracks that wrap around the hill (called Pigeon Point). The BNSF tracks service the container yard and a couple of customers south of the E Marginal Way scrap yard.

In the plant itself, the north large building is where the melting furnaces are. South of that is the scrap storage area, it has a roof over part of it. Gantry cranes on elevated tracks move the scrap into the melting room. Hard see, but there are tracks on the north and south side of the scrap heaps, that's where loaded gons would go to be unloaded.
New steel comes out the west side of the melting room, the north-south oriented gantry moves it to the green-roofed building to the south.
Those buildings are where the steel is rolled, cut and processed. Gons or flatcars of new steel would come out of there headed out to a local classification yard. Trucks with new steel would also load up in those buildings.

Todd
 
1.Distance between double track varies greatly. In the 80's and through the mid 90's was most companies went single where ever they could to decrease costs of maintenance. From there on rail traffic started to increase again by leaps and bounds. Now Companies are double tracking area's that was once or have not been double tracked in years. Keep this in mind.

2.Distance between rail and platform? Well what you should go by is car and platform. Passenger platforms will in most cases sit below car height under the car itself so here clearance is not a concern in most cases. Freight on the other hand will be a space of around 1 foot or just under half a meter.

3.Overhead is around 23 to 24 feet like previousely stated by others. There are still some lines here where Stack trains are not permitted due to overhead being to low or too close.
 
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