amigacooke
Well-known member
Me as well. TRS22 had no significant improvement, for me, over TRS19, so I was never going to buy it.
Is N3V Rational?
- Thread starter boleyd
- Start date
A big up around here is that Tony participates now. Prior to that it seemed like we were largely shouting into a vacuum. They don't always make the choices I would, but at least I know I'm heard (seen).
It may not be perfect, but it was a quantum shift in managing expectations (and frustrations) him simply being here and commenting from time to time.
Meanwhile, I dearly wish they'd have released a fully documented set of assets taking advantage of all the new features and employing all the best practices for the post-tane era engine.
It may not be perfect, but it was a quantum shift in managing expectations (and frustrations) him simply being here and commenting from time to time.
Meanwhile, I dearly wish they'd have released a fully documented set of assets taking advantage of all the new features and employing all the best practices for the post-tane era engine.
He has always participated. He may have been on annual leave (or extended leave). I am sure we can allow him that.
Right after the release of TS2009, he went off on a walkabout and left everyone here out on a limb trying to figure things out. N3V did a similar thing when T:ANE came out and changed a lot after that with TRS19 after we called them out on it. With the recent release from a month ago, everyone there again disappeared and left us figuring out how to get around the mess from the poorly tested update. Many people, including myself, are still recovering from that.
Yep, the check clears every month for -$14.99.
I like Trainz Best thing I've had for years, but now I am frustrated with it since updating to Trainz 22 PE , lots of problems with Schedule manager A1 trains skip a lot A1 orders, not completing the Schedule allocated. Put an Unload at a Station Before uncouplez and Engine refuses to uncouple. Doing my head in
I think N3V are rational. They offered me a large loyalty discount so I’m now the owner of TRS22 PE. They extracted some money from me when there‘s no chance of extracting a subscription.
Whether I’m rational or not is another matter, but I now have a reason to start looking at those S20 tutorials
YEP they are very "rational", they prized me for the loyalty by offer of TRS22 for 20 bugs, while some 3-4 weeks later TRS22 was offered for 15 bugs to everyone so it seems that I would be charged by loyalty fee 5 bugs instead....
amigacooke
Well-known member
Well, it seemed like a good deal at the time.YEP they are very "rational", they prized me for the loyalty by offer of TRS22 for 20 bugs, while some 3-4 weeks later TRS22 was offered for 15 bugs to everyone so it seems that I would be charged by loyalty fee 5 bugs instead....
Legomaniac
New member
Although I like the idea of Trainz 22, it isn't different enough to constitute me buying it. I already have 2019 PE and besides not having S 2.0, I'm very satisfied with the way if runs for me and don't feel like I need to purchase 22. I honestly feel like the biggest problem when buying a new edition is the asset transfer and this is what has been stopping me from buying 22. As long as the DLS is running I will continue to use 2019.
2995Valliant
Well-known member
Is N3V rational: They simplymust be to have survived as long as they have (let's forget about "Fury" as that was pre-N3V anyway) - blind luck alone doesn't get you far.
And look at how far they've come and what they've achieved along the way. How many cries for a new game engine, each one answered by an "expert" on here keen to explain N3V could never manage to develop another game engine to succeed the venerable JET engine did we hear, or how we'd never get a higher definition terrain grid just for two examples. PBR ground textures weren't that great when first intorduced, but with HD terrain they really come into their own - is that coincidence, or an example of a company with a plan working within its abilities to deliver that plan step by step?
Yes, there have been a few broken things along the way, but fundamentally stuff that was built properly the best part of 20 years ago will still run if you need it to, and those of us with long term route projects have been able to migrate those routes, normally with little effort, and incorporate the latest improvements into them - that's unique in train simming, and pretty unusual in most gaming genres I believe.
Of course Trainz isn't perfect, and all of us have our own hobby horses as to what the next priority should be, but none of the competing sims past or present come near it in terms of overall ability and flexibility - and it looks better than the current competition too, which is something that pre-T:ANE we could only dream of.
For me, and I think many others, it works as a hobby, rather than a game, and long may that continue.
I look forward to seeing what 2024 will bring in terms of new features, fixes and content, and thank everyone at N3V for the hours of enjoyment his game has given me over the last 20 years!
And look at how far they've come and what they've achieved along the way. How many cries for a new game engine, each one answered by an "expert" on here keen to explain N3V could never manage to develop another game engine to succeed the venerable JET engine did we hear, or how we'd never get a higher definition terrain grid just for two examples. PBR ground textures weren't that great when first intorduced, but with HD terrain they really come into their own - is that coincidence, or an example of a company with a plan working within its abilities to deliver that plan step by step?
Yes, there have been a few broken things along the way, but fundamentally stuff that was built properly the best part of 20 years ago will still run if you need it to, and those of us with long term route projects have been able to migrate those routes, normally with little effort, and incorporate the latest improvements into them - that's unique in train simming, and pretty unusual in most gaming genres I believe.
Of course Trainz isn't perfect, and all of us have our own hobby horses as to what the next priority should be, but none of the competing sims past or present come near it in terms of overall ability and flexibility - and it looks better than the current competition too, which is something that pre-T:ANE we could only dream of.
For me, and I think many others, it works as a hobby, rather than a game, and long may that continue.
I look forward to seeing what 2024 will bring in terms of new features, fixes and content, and thank everyone at N3V for the hours of enjoyment his game has given me over the last 20 years!
And don't forget that the original JET was developed by Auran with a $AU2,000,000 grant from the Australian Government and the current (TANE) 64bit engine was developed by N3V with Kickstarter funding from us, the Trainz users. The continuing developments, such as Surveyor 2, HDT, TLR and MP Surveyor are largely (if not entirely) funded by the Trainz Plus subscription.
None of this is cheap.
The two are very much linked and the "train running experience" means different things to different users.
I, for one, never use the Advanced Driving Controls (throttle, train and independent brakes, etc). The simple "W", "X" and "S" keys suit me just fine. I rarely get into the cab to view the journey from there - what is the point of all that scenery if you don't see it?
While the two are linked, improving the graphics wins out over improving the driver experience for me every time.
My opinions.
I'm not sure I agree with the question in the title of this thread. I do think N3V are doing their best with the resources they can commercially sustain. It is clear they rely on the support of a number of creators both independent and commercial partners to a significant extent and it is their that I think they are showing weakness.
I should first explain that I am a rivet counter so I do want the driving experience to be as realistic as possible but not at the expense of the visual environment. It is the driving experience where I think there are shortcomings and not necessarily because the solutions are not already put in place by those talented supporters. For example stop start for DE locomotives. The cold and dark start of a working day is a key for many drivers. and it could be implemented for all types of locomotive. I refer to this example because I know Jointed Rail did some early development of the feature and HP Trains made it available on payware locomotives in 2016. The development work is done and for a cut I am sure the creators would be happy to let N3V adopt it. Another step in the right direction is to implement EOT movement rather that an intrusive "rough handling" on screen message. This has been implemented by Jointed Rail in some of their newer payware locos and it is available from RR Mods so again the answer is available but N3V still do not seem to strive to get involved in the implementation.
There are many other aspects of driver experience enhancement that could be developed with the Trainz software engine and I hope they will be. It is this lack of realism that makes me divide my time between Trainz and another Railway simulator. I can make sessions for my favourite routes to my hearts content in Trainz but for the realistic player experience unfortunately I need play away and while the environment was secondary in that sim for a long time it is now quickly catching up with Trainz but it has all the driver features that a railway simulator deserves.
I should first explain that I am a rivet counter so I do want the driving experience to be as realistic as possible but not at the expense of the visual environment. It is the driving experience where I think there are shortcomings and not necessarily because the solutions are not already put in place by those talented supporters. For example stop start for DE locomotives. The cold and dark start of a working day is a key for many drivers. and it could be implemented for all types of locomotive. I refer to this example because I know Jointed Rail did some early development of the feature and HP Trains made it available on payware locomotives in 2016. The development work is done and for a cut I am sure the creators would be happy to let N3V adopt it. Another step in the right direction is to implement EOT movement rather that an intrusive "rough handling" on screen message. This has been implemented by Jointed Rail in some of their newer payware locos and it is available from RR Mods so again the answer is available but N3V still do not seem to strive to get involved in the implementation.
There are many other aspects of driver experience enhancement that could be developed with the Trainz software engine and I hope they will be. It is this lack of realism that makes me divide my time between Trainz and another Railway simulator. I can make sessions for my favourite routes to my hearts content in Trainz but for the realistic player experience unfortunately I need play away and while the environment was secondary in that sim for a long time it is now quickly catching up with Trainz but it has all the driver features that a railway simulator deserves.
I've always thought of Trainz as being a gigantic model railroad, and this is probably why pseudo-realism annoys me so much. I feel as though it's a square shaped peg being squished into an oblong hole as if to make it fit the new paradigm.
All of my routes are based on using Trainz as a Railway Simulator, never as a model railroad substitute. I was never into building model railroads, both before and after the arrival of Auran/N3V.
While I would (very occasionally) visit a model railroad exhibition and admire the work that obviously went into their construction, I could never really see the sense of them - what was actually (in the real world) kms or even hundreds of kms of track reduced to just a few metres (in the model world). Having said that I do have some of Philskene's routes/sessions and I do use them occasionally.
Trainz gives me the opportunity to create a railway that duplicates the real world of long distances and open spaces.
My thoughts
While I would (very occasionally) visit a model railroad exhibition and admire the work that obviously went into their construction, I could never really see the sense of them - what was actually (in the real world) kms or even hundreds of kms of track reduced to just a few metres (in the model world). Having said that I do have some of Philskene's routes/sessions and I do use them occasionally.
Trainz gives me the opportunity to create a railway that duplicates the real world of long distances and open spaces.
My thoughts