An alarm has to be raised

[djt]

it all looks quite innovative, unsure which developers may be interested in all of this and I see they use OpenGL more than DX, which could be a future advantage.

I actually got into a discussion with one of the members of the development team last year about this very subject (if you page through some of the topics you’ll find it).


I was told that the engine can easily be configured to use Direct X instead of OpenGL (actually they mentioned the use of DirectX 11).


Use of this engine in a train sim came up in the “Building/Transportation/Driving Game” section of the forums if I remember correctly.


Here are some links to some of the more interesting examples of what the engine is capable of -


http://www.outerra.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=337

http://www.outerra.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=333

http://www.outerra.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=267

http://www.outerra.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=270

http://www.outerra.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=348

 

[JCitron]

Keep in mind John that what you’re seeing is work in progress and just a development example.

One thing that is good about that site is the fact that the developers of the game engine are not afraid to answer any technical questions pertaining to how things are being done or how they will be done in the engine.

The game engines that are current crop of train games use can’t even begin to compare to the shadows and lighting in some of the latest videos they have up over there. The way the Outerra game engine utilizes the GPU is also way beyond the [FONT=&quot]farm implement[/FONT] like game engines we’ve seen so far with the current crop of train games.

I'm glad to hear that the developer is open about their work on the game engine - at least for now. I remember the really early days of the Auran with Greg Lane and John Banks right in the midst of the forums discussing development. I wasn't a member here back then, but would come by from time to time and read what was happening. The main reasons I never got in early being I was afraid to buy into a subscription type program that was going to be released in bits and pieces, and the fact that my PC at the time was incapable of running anything truly graphics intensive. My old ATI 8500 would crash badly with the graphics engine that Auran was using back then, and would even die with MSTS as well.

It is interesting that what the train simulator developers are using today is really old technology. Even the engine used in RW (or whatever it's called these days) is still essentially the same engine used by MS and Kuju, and developed around the same time as Auran's Jet development Engine. They may have come up with a new paint job and replaced the carpet, but the old MSTS engine is still there for RW.

Things have gone very far, as we can see, but to buy into this technology both companies need a lot of cash to do so. The development kits are not cheap, and can run hundreds of thousands of dollars. My brother found this out when his small company SimLogix was looking into developing a flight simulation. This wasn't a game, but aimed at the professional training market. Their main product they were developing for never made it completely off the ground, but their show piece did. The First in Flight Wright Brothers exhibit in 2003 used his models and animation for their website and live exhibit.

As time goes on, I also wonder what direction N3V and Electronic Arts are going to go in with this because as you noted that Outerra engine is seriously being looked at for a rail simulation out there. The GPU technology is there, but so few companies really utilize what's there in the GPU chipsets.

I agree this really is awesome stuff!

John

 

[djt]

Even the engine used in RW (or whatever it's called these days) is still essentially the same engine used by MS and Kuju, and developed around the same time as Auran's Jet development Engine. They may have come up with a new paint job and replaced the carpet, but the old MSTS engine is still there for RW.

John I’ve never seen anything that would lead anyone to believe that the current engine RailWorks uses is essentially the same as the DirectX 7 game engine MSTS uses. It’s no technological wonder but it’s nowhere near as bad as MSTS either.

It will be interesting to see how well RailWorks 3 new TSX game engine can handle the new improvements/eye candy made to the game.

 

[Boobless_ed]

John I’ve never seen anything that would lead anyone to believe that the current engine RailWorks uses is essentially the same as the DirectX 7 game engine MSTS uses. It’s no technological wonder but it’s nowhere near as bad as MSTS either.

It will be interesting to see how well RailWorks 3 new TSX game engine can handle the new improvements/eye candy made to the game.

Essentially the same as in, can display terrain, track, objects and run trains?

Sorry, but I got a good laugh outa that post. There's a whole lot more to a game engine than you might imagine.

 

[djt]

Essentially the same as in, can display terrain, track, objects and run trains?

Yes as in the MSTS vs. RailWorks comparison, that’s where it ends, lol.

There's a whole lot more to a game engine than you might imagine.

Then I imagine or others imagine? I’m very well aware of what goes into a game engine.

 

[lackoo11111]

I wonder how and what will N3V Games and Auran reply to this .

 

[geophil]

I wonder how and what will N3V Games and Auran reply to this .

Good morning. Hope you slept well. When fully awake have a look at this thread: http://forums.auran.com/trainz/showthread.php?t=76103 as it may have an answer to your question.

 

[JCitron]

John I’ve never seen anything that would lead anyone to believe that the current engine RailWorks uses is essentially the same as the DirectX 7 game engine MSTS uses. It’s no technological wonder but it’s nowhere near as bad as MSTS either.

It will be interesting to see how well RailWorks 3 new TSX game engine can handle the new improvements/eye candy made to the game.

Very good point, Dan.

This is where I give Outerra credit. They are developing from the bottom right off, and hopefully they can convince the venture capitalists that they have a lucrative business. I've seen a lot of companies end up with great products, but in the end are nothing more than vaporware. In some ways I hope they can remain independent of EA and other publishing houses who will dictate how they do things, and their actual engine development will end up going the way of everything else and everything will look the same.

The screen shots are beautiful. In fact like their original product, too beautiful. I wonder how much of this is the real game engine versus very heavily modeled, high polygon, scenes that look pretty, but in reality couldn't be animated on anything else but an array of Sun 7000 servers with Petabytes of memory. One of the things about the screen shots is a lot of it looks like the Sims. The trees have that "look" and so do the buildings.

@Boobless Ed. ---- I'm no lawyer, and never wanted to be one, but to me this looks very much like a too close for comfort copyright violation, or perhaps more likely plagiarism. If this was the movie industry, they'd be flying at each other like bats out of h***

John

 

[djt]

In some ways I hope they can remain independent of EA and other publishing houses who will dictate how they do things, and their actual engine development will end up going the way of everything else and everything will look the same.

John, again Outerra is a game engine not a game, what the game developer does with the engine and how they market the final product is up to them not Outerra.

I wonder how much of this is the real game engine versus very heavily modeled, high polygon, scenes that look pretty, but in reality couldn't be animated on anything else but an array of Sun 7000 servers with Petabytes of memory.

That’s all Outerra is at this point, a game engine.

As far as the hardware requirements are concerned, there are plenty of discussions about hardware requirements in the Outerra forums. As a matter of fact the GPU used to create some of those videos was surprisingly on the low end.

In the end again as mentioned before it will depend on how far the game developer wants to go and what features of say OpenGL or DirectX they choose to use.

 

[JCitron]

That's even better to know about Outerra, but the way the big publishers work, such as EA, they tend to dictate what can be used, so even if this game engine is awesome, it may never see the light of day on mainstream products.

A good example is all of the EA Sim series. They all seem to have the same game engine, and the same now with their C&C series, which appear to have that same glossy-pretty look to them just like the Sims. Gone is the individual graphics engine.

Regarding the quote here:

"I wonder how much of this is the real game engine versus very heavily modeled, high polygon, scenes that look pretty, but in reality couldn't be animated on anything else but an array of Sun 7000 servers with Petabytes of memory."

Perhaps I wasn't clear in my original message as I had done some editing before I posted. I tend to go off on tangents too often now. I wonder if this is the age thing now kicking in!

Anyway I was referring to the RailWorks 3 screen images. These look too much like renders from 3d-Studio or some other 3d modeling package.

Only time will tell...

John

 

[djt]

but the way the big publishers work, such as EA, they tend to dictate what can be used, so even if this game engine is awesome, it may never see the light of day on mainstream products.

If the game developer chooses to go with EA as the publisher then yes, but you don’t see very many true simulator type games being published by EA either.

In addition with the big publishers the console game market is where the money is. There’s very little interest in small niche PC simulator games.

Anyway I was referring to the RailWorks 3 screen images. These look too much like renders from 3d-Studio or some other 3d modeling package.

From the people I’ve talked to I have little doubt that they are in-game screen shots. I don’t see anything by looking closely at them that would lead me to believe that they were not taken in-game either. I don’t see anything special in the screen shots as far as graphics are concerned compared to what I’ve already seen over the last few years with other game titles. Some of this stuff might be new to the train game-crowd but certainly isn’t with the rest of the PC gaming world not by a long shot.

The screen shots of RailWorks 3 were also taken in an un-optimized game so there are still improvements that need to be made before September.

My main interest is how the new game engine they are using utilizes the hardware, which is something the screen shots obviously can’t show.