Is creating Sessions a waste of time ?

Looking at the download stats for my recently uploaded route (WeddinNSW), I see that only 25% of the people who downloaded the map also downloaded the sessions. Since the Active Industries don't work without the sessions (well at least the Industry Base session) this surprises me.

Quite a lot of work goes into the sessions (the hands free demonstration session 'The Cowra Mixed' runs for several hours, and was a pain to get right thanks to the vagaries of the AI drivers). I wonder if its worth doing sessions in the future, or should I just concentrate on map building? From my point of view, if you haven't at least checked out 'The Cowra Mixed', with its use of all the tracking camera's, then your not 'getting it'.

None of the sessions have any dependences, other than Weddin itself, as they all use built in rolling stock. They are all very small downloads (especialy relative to the 14meg map download). So download size and complexity of installation can't be what's deterring people. Even if it turns out that people don't like the sessions, I would have thought they would be curious enough to download and take a peak.

I would be interested to hear from other Route builders. Have you noticed a similiar trend. And for those that downloaded the map, but not the sessions - why is that?

Phil

I'd suggest it's because most people haven't got a clue what a session is...

Paul

No Phil, don't stop. I enjoy sessions:
1. Lets me see what the creator intended.
2. I'm not that creative, so it gives me ideas for other things.
3. Specifically your Cowra Mixed, shows what's possible.
Don't be disheartened.
Norm

I've only uploaded a couple of sessions, but I've seen the same results with the first session that I uploaded for my Ashland Central V2 route.
The route has been downloaded 3781 times. The session is named Afternoon Coal Run and has been downloaded 1518 times. What's confusing is that there are some html assetts that have to be downloaded to get the 'in-session' directions and they've been downloaded the following number of times.
Session 'Afternoon Coal Run'- 1518
screen1 - 410
screen2 - 408
screen3 - 395
screen4 - 396
screen5 - 398
screen6 - 391
screen7 - 395
It would seem that the html screens would at least be downloaded the same number of times. They're really no use except in the session.

I've uploaded one other session for the same route which requires some rolling stock that I placed on the DLS. I can't tell how this has worked since the rolling stock has been downloaded more times than the session has.

Sessions are a personal thing and without them you would not know if the route would run as you would like. They sort out pitfalls in the layouts placing of trackmarks etc. So yes you need them even if nobody else does. So the fact you have them means that you might as well upload them for those who want to see how you set it up or how a particular manouvre is carried out.

The same for me...

I have experienced the same thing, about 25% of those who downloaded the map (SWE - DEN Fast Connection) also downloaded the demo session (Round-Robin).

This is a bit surprising as the demo session shows you how to set up the trains correctly. If the trains are placed wrongly the signalling system will prohibit them to run! The demo session is intended to show you how to do it. Without the correct knowledge it could be frustrating for the user, and he/she will possible blaim the map for beeing setup in a wrong way.

Moreover, nice screen shots could be taken from that session with many trains meeting one another in the opposite directions.

One answer, could also be, that they are dissapointed with the map. But I really don't hope so!

stagecoach said:

Sessions are a personal thing and without them you would not know if the route would run as you would like. They sort out pitfalls in the layouts placing of trackmarks etc. So yes you need them even if nobody else does. So the fact you have them means that you might as well upload them for those who want to see how you set it up or how a particular manouvre is carried out.

Click to expand...

I totally agree with you. Sessions are the best method of testing my routes. They can be time consuming and tedious, but well worth the effort.

Even for a route that is several years old, this percentage tends to be consistant. I suspect some people download routes just to gain the content included.
Ed

...sessions...

Thanks, FootplatePhil, for your persistence in completion of the sessions.
Especially the Demo, that's attractive to me, as to see what may be accomplished!
I have several sessions, only used occasionally, since I mostly arrange movements an consists on routes I choose to run.
I had a bad experience awhile back with a session that required a content pack, which I found too late, reconfigured every locomotive included to "default" config.
The layout, was completely flat, my non-preference, and the over-powered trains ran mostly in idle position.
I could understand how after completing so much work, you find so few downloads...
But as long as you are creating sessions, you may as well share!
Someone down the road, may enjoy, though like all other submitted content, don't hold your breath for a Forum Community reply!

leeferr said:

I totally agree with you. Sessions are the best method of testing my routes. They can be time consuming and tedious, but well worth the effort.

Click to expand...

There is that. I acually haven't uploaded the session I use for most of my map changes testing. It simiiar to the 'Hands free demo' I uploaded, but uses proto-typical NSWGR rolling stock (thanks Pete!) , not all of which is available on the DLS.

Its very interesting to see from the comments so far that my experience is not unique. Can anyone out there who has downloaded any of the maps mentioned here, but not the sessions, offer an explanation? Please understand, no criticism of your approach is intended (we all come to Trainz with different interests and objectives), but I would like to know if there is something simple that can be done which would make the sessions more appealing/accessible.

Phil

Creating sessions is NO waste of time.

Some people (me included) look for sessions/scenarios for an easy to handle and exciting drive. So I also downloaded your sessions but did not have time to play them

Why even basic session are not downloaded as many as the maps I do not understand, too. Suggestion: Add the kuid of basic session to the kuid-table of the route. So people have to download them. Also many routes have presignals which mostly only work correct if the basic session is used for session creating or/and test driving.

I can imagine people not having much time only search for "layouts" on the DLS (or CMP) so the basic session are not known of and so not downloaded.

Sessions are the one thing I'm looking for and there aren't exactly an endless supply on the DLS. There are quite a few, but I can't easily tell which route they require, and in general I'd like to download more sessions for the routes I've already got. I don't want the hassle of missing dependencies for countless other routes. I don't know how to search for such sessions though.

I recently downloaded your WeddinNSW route after seeing it mentioned in another thread - very, very nice it is too! It wasn't until I read through your readme file that I knew sessions existed for it, and even then they weren't so easy to find. I was using CMP only then, and hadn't thought to look on the website's DLS where their description made them jump out at me. Searching for "WeddinNSW" in CMP only found the route of course.

The HTML assets were then another problem. For all WeddinNSW and Rosworth Vale SP2 sessions I had missing HTML files and no idea how to find them! Then I chanced upon the "HTML assets" category in CMP yesterday and so found the necessary files for the routes. Strange that they can't be included as dependencies for the sessions for an automatic download though!

Now I have your sessions and look forward to giving them a proper look soon. Only loaded one up for a few minutes so far.

As I know little about realistic operations of trains, I feel a bit clueless when trying to set up a session by myself. I don't know a lot about each loco or which wagons can support which commodities and so on. Therefore I have to put in a lot of time and experimentation to get something simple going, and even then it probably runs in a manner where the drivers break all the rules. So I'm really looking for sessions that actually give me tasks to complete and already contain locos and consists and other traffic - it is my way of learning for now

Please keep the sessions coming because I certainly appreciate and use them, and I'm sure other people in my position do to (provided they can find them and the HTML pages to go with them, which wasn't obvious at all for the uninitiated like me!).

Lots of the people who buy Trainz buy it not as a game but as a way of continuing a passion with model railways as you can have miles of track without having to have an attic as big as the QE2 to run it round. I suspect that a great deal of the route builders grew up with Hornby sets (or whatever the equivalent in other countries is) and, like me, have still got them boxed up somewhere but haven't got the space to lay them out properly.
Ergo whilst it's nice to make your own routes, another nice thing is to get a really lovely route from the DLS , tinker about with it and make it your own with all the bits removed that you don't like and more bits shoved in that you do, and then to run a train up and down it and see the fruits of your labours. Sessions turn it into more of a structured game, which is not what model railway people want.
Just a theory, but it's why I'm not all that keen on sessions at least. However, the 25 per cent who have downloaded your scripts are presumably running the sessions and are happy with them, and these are the game-orientated users; so no, keep doing the sessions and that way you're keeping everybody happy! Time well spent.

...and another thing...

No ardent, user of Trainz, or any one else for that matter, should ever operate a train over unfamiliar territory!
At least, an AI Driver, should be sent through the area, as a pilot driver.
The Demo's, can help familiarize a new operator with the curves, siding locations, signal locations, speed limits, downgrades, upgrades, station locations, yard limits, everything must be know, not assumed, before running any route.
A TrainDispatcher route program, is excellent to have, with a track diagram, and train list, to study the route. Buy the way, several Australian routes, are available, as is a demo version of Train3

Stallion
you're probably right about the difficulty of finding the right html assets for a session. At the time that I uploaded my first session for the Ashland Central V2, I didn't really understand how they related to each other (and I'm still not sure that I do). I had thought that the html assets would be packaged with the session since I had packaged them together for upload. Experience will teach me as I go along as I guess - just as life does

I think Stallion may have hit the nail on the head. Thanks for those insights. At the least, I think will get in the habit of including map title in the session names. And the idea of including the session kuids (at least the HTML and Industry Base) in the map kuid list is a great one.
Phil

Phil --

I usually make a session for my own enjoyment, and sometimes figure if I enjoy it others might too.

So I generally re-package it with rolling stock available from the Download Station (though in a few sessions I have given a link to an external site), whip up a readme and maps, do a thumbnail and upload it.

I suspect, though, that most people look at locomotives, rolling stock, routes and buildings, and ignore most of the rest of the material on the Download Station.

Phil

backyard said:

No ardent, user of Trainz, or any one else for that matter, should ever operate a train over unfamiliar territory!

Click to expand...

Not sure why you'd think that....I like plunking down a loco, jumping in and driving around a new route...no fun in following an AI....

Phil

I have found exactly the same, at the start, but now after approx 1 year it has crept up to almost two thirds. My route is "Midland Line NZ 2" and the session is "TranzAlpine & WCoast Coal". I did put a notice on the forum suggesting that the session or the whole pack should be downloaded for the full effect, but I expect that maybe many get downloaded from the download station without looking at the forum. I know what you mean as in mine the session has all the trains operating as it is in real life along with the large description. Once it has been seen by the user how it is intended to work, they can always turn off the AI trains and even remove them and use the trains of their choice. But I know with mine I would have thought that the session would be preferred.

I will be watching this thread because this has been puzzling me also.

Maybe there is a way to upload the session only with the route as a required dependency, but this may not be what is required by the downloader. They may have a good reason why they do not want the session or they may actually be unaware that there is a session, due to the way Auran seperates them on uploading? I do like the way there is a View Pack option but I expect this wouldn't be available if they were uploaded in seperate upload sessions.

Now you have brought this to my attention I will be downloading your session and route so I can try them.

Cheers David

shoves said:

Lots of the people who buy Trainz buy it not as a game but as a way of continuing a passion with model railways as you can have miles of track without having to have an attic as big as the QE2 to run it round. I suspect that a great deal of the route builders grew up with Hornby sets (or whatever the equivalent in other countries is) and, like me, have still got them boxed up somewhere but haven't got the space to lay them out properly.

Click to expand...

I am one of those unfortunate people. But I've found a possible way round it... Garden Rail! Not Hornby but still...

Personally, I find seesions great. When I see a route that I like, I try to look for sessions to go with it. I use them to gain ideas on operation and building Layuts. Don't give up on them! You might use tham.

Matt