This Sucks
- Thread starter Kris94
- Start date
Now wait a minute! You stated:
You didn't disqualify by whether its on sale (which it is btw), or even qualify what a min-spec means, nor qualify it by "a typical purchase option."
So lets restate the claim now:
"I didn't look at the video, but any card, which is a typical purchase option, and above min-spec (defined as ____), should work with Trainz regardless of chipset or manufacturer."
Minimum spec is defined by the manufacturer. N3V lists a 7200 or "equivalent" as the minimum for Trainz. X800 is considerably older than that.
To expect an x800 to run Trainz is as realistic as expecting to be able to run Trainz on Windows 98. Fortunately, N3V was upfront about the minimum OS specs too.
Windows 98 machines haven't been sold new for many years. Therefore, they are not a realistic purchase option. Likewise, x800 is not a realistic purchase option (though I've seen new Mac versions available, presumably as repair stock form Amazon.)
So, yes, besides integrated video (known issue) and GPUs that are essentially off the market (and are below minimum-spec anyway), the statement that "any video card, regardless of manufacturer should work" still stands.
Not considerably, maybe about a year older. X800 is equivalent to 6800 which does work w/TS12. The chipset matters in older cards.
It does run Trainz, but TRS2004 and 2006. See that - again you should be careful how you qualify statements. It does not run TS12 and I think I reported it didn't work, and voiced no expectations. Not sure where "to expect" arose from.
Wait a minute again. Windows '98 is from 1997, the Radeon X800 is from 2004/2005. I don't agree with that analogy, there's a six year disparity. X800 was well into the Win XP era.
That was understood, as you defined it, in your prior email, and it was not contested.
- check out Google shopping, there are PC versions for sale.
The statement in quotes doesn't stand without the pre-qualification before the quotes.
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TRS2004 and 06 are themselves out of support. Therefore, one can expect posters here to discuss the modern versions. Also, kris is running TS2009, which is itself a bit dated.
It doesn't matter; both are out-of-date and well below the minimum system requirements established by N3V.
Amazon also has Windows 98SE for sale. It doesn't make it any less outdated. (Although I liked Win98 and still have a machine running it.)
Actually, it does, since the first issue is well-established here and the second AFAIK has never been an issue until you brought it up, not to mention that N3V has made clear the minimum specs in any case, so no further qualification is needed. If you know of any posts by people trying to run TS2009+ on anything less than a GF7 or an equivalent, I'd love some links.
The point has been completely missed. The same thing happened here when you specified "Trainz" instead of "TS2009" that happened when you stated "any card." The wording used covers more ground than your intent, and thats why we are having this protracted discussion.
Ok noted. I am told here the Win 98 analogy you made doesn't matter. At least I thought what you state does matter.
Getting back to the point of X800 sales, they still can be purchased, so you cannot disqualify them from the "any card" statement by the qualifier "no longer on the market."
No I beg to differ. You are attempting to establish it, but haven't been specific enough. This thread was started with a card that performs as "this sucks." If that individual followed the statement "any card should work with Trainz regardless of chipset or manufacturer," there is nothing disqualifying him from buying a gf6 or X800 ATI, in fact they have very attractive pricing. He could potentially be worse off following within the bounds of that statement.
I did not "bring this up." You solicited me to ID cards that do not work.
True, that is old news. My first 2 posts, I am the one who identified the Kris94 card is below n3V spec.
Ok that means Kris94 can buy any card for sale and things are guaranteed to work? It's a risky statement and would not serve him well.
OMG I just cited a gf6 that works with TS12 in this discussion.
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Right. Since it's assumed we're talking about modern Trainz - and note also people's Trainz versions are specified next to their avatar - it's assumed we're talking about TS2009 unless specified otherwise. (Although, technically, TC3 is still in support, but it doesn't seem like many people talk about it.)
It doesn't matter to the extent that neither Win98 nor Radeon x800 are supported; exactly how old they are is irrelevant and does not change that fact.
Sure, I can. They may be sold via legacy sales, but not primary sales. There are much older cards being sold. We don't discuss them, nor anything outside of the supported product in question. It doesn't have to be pointed out in every discussion that "video card" excludes other unsupported cards such as, say, CGA and Hercules.
First of all, a 6150SE is not a "card", it's an integrated graphics system. It comes with a motherboard, so it's not possible to "upgrade" or "downgrade" to that without changing out the motherboard. Second, he has TS2009, so it's assumed he will meet minimum specifications. It's not necessary to preface every statement with numerous conditionals since it's no one else's fault if one fails to abide by the minimum system requirements.
Second, looking at the prices at Amazon, new x800s, for instance, are much more expensive than equivalent modern cards.
You looked for problems with a statement because you needed something to nitpick. If you're not going to abiding by minimum system specifications, then that's your responsibility.
As did any knowledgeable person here who new what video chipset that was.
Yup, assuming it meets or exceeds the minimum system requirements, and barring any drivers issues - and there are no up-to-date driver issues that I'm aware of that prevents Trainz from working with either AMD/ATI or nVidia.
I assume you're joking about that; otherwise, I'd have to say you shouldn't be giving out hardware advice to anyone. If not, let N3V know, perhaps they set their minimum specs too high.
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Go to Can You Run ItUse the second window to find Trainz Simulator 2009 and allow the system utility thingy to run.
It will tell your week spots...
Williamb73
New member
1.30 ghz 4 gigs of Ram dude and I mess with the setting in trainz to make it run perfect. Mabey you should start accepting less and stop being such a compainer. You know the load times I go thru NO. You have a great computer, so learn how to use it! I run Trainz fine on my little e-machine I bought for $299.99. Start playing with the fog levels and graphics settings man. If you truly beleve in all your mind and soul it will work great, IT WILL! Law of attraction dude, your too worryed about the program not running perfectly. I know I can't spell but hey I'm a Doctor! LOL
Ok agreed, "modern Trainz" = TS2009 to TS12.
But moreover, the irrelevancy began when the analogy between the 2 was far-fetched. (Isn't Win 98 supported in South America?)
On no, more qualifiers - legacy and primary sales. Gee there seems to be so many qualifiers now for that "any card" statement.
True, not in every discussion, but its quite feasible it would be needed in a discussion led off with "...any card...." will work. Generally speaking, some gamers are on allowance rather than salary, so one cannot assume their sites are exclusively fixed on newer cards.
My advice is don't use the absolute word "any," it leads to misinterpretation by observers.
Yes you are of course correct.
Ah now that is pertinent to the thread... got that Kris94?
Nope, don't buy that, too many assumptions. He may have TS12 but has not registered yet because of preoccupation with poor performance, and therefore his avatar doesn't show TS12 yet. Secondly, he started this thread because he may have below minimum specs, so I would not assume "he will meet minimum specifications."
If I may speak for my thinking, being that I am closer to the source than any other person: the "....any card..." statement "hit me" as a problem because I know it to be inaccurate. It was a defense of truth which invoked my response, not a need to nitpick.
Once again, this was experience solicited from me because there was disbelief the "any card" statement could be flawed. I am not defying min specs, I am reporting experience as I was requested.
No I am dead serious. An Nvidia 6800 runs TS12.
Giving advice?? I asked for advice (aka Tram: tell me will the cards in these builds work with TS12).
Just because I found a GeForce 6800 will run TS12 doesn't necessarily make that result palatable to N3V. Perhaps they had not tested a gf6, or maybe the frames per second is below their standards for a minimum recommendation.
Actually William, I am speaking up for the humble Trainz user who does not have the means to buy the latest more expensive technology. I am on your side. Also, since I have only an overclocked GeForce 7800, I am not exactly on the cutting edge myself.
No, both are obsolete as far as Trainz is concerned. How long they've been obsolete is what's irrelevant.
Just as you would have one preface every statement with numerous qualifiers, such as 'this only applies to TS2009+, your equipment must meet minimum specs, etc.' That is not needed in conversation and pretty much everyone here knows we're talking about modern Trainz, meeting or exceeding minimum specs. Reasonable people don't expect one to be running an 8+ year old machine and, if so, one would expect that they upgrade, not downgrade.
Sure, we can. What we can say virtually for certain is that their sights will not be set on OLDER, LESS-CAPABLE cards.
Sure I can, and will, where appropriate.
If so, his failure to provide proper information is his problem. One of the reasons we register our games and that we have those versions listed in every post right next to our avatars is so that others know what versions we are dealing with.
Sure it is. No reasonable person is going to downgrade their card, especially to one that's probably below minimum specs.
Your experience was based upon a card that was well below the minimum specified by Auran. As I suggested before, it's no more realistic to expect Trainz to run with that anymore than, say, a VGA, CGA or Hercules card.
TramDU1214
No custom Title :-(
A few years ago, I played TRS2006 with an old Intel CPU (I think), old integrated graphics and 768mb ram.
It did work.
But good hardware isn't wrong and maxing out games is fun.
And finally: The System requirements should be atleast matched. Just to be sure.
It did work.
But good hardware isn't wrong and maxing out games is fun.
And finally: The System requirements should be atleast matched. Just to be sure.
As a humble Trainz user myself, who owns what is really a 5+ year old machine, some of us just don't NEED the newer technology, at least right now...and whatever rig I have, I'll probably still be running XP 5 years from now, lol. Nevertheless, a reasonable person isn't going to downgrade, especially to a level below minimum specs.
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How long they were obsolete was so relevant on May 15th below that it was used to make a dramatic splash: "To expect an x800 to run Trainz is as realistic as expecting to be able to run Trainz on Windows 98." Admittedly the six year disparity I cited between the two has made that comparison irrelevant.
The "any card" statement does not need numerous qualifiers to attain a marked increase in accuracy. From what I have learned in this discussion, one could say precisely and concisely: "any card gf7 card or higher will work with TRS2009+, regardless of chipset or manufacturer." That does not use much more shoe leather than the original statement, and yet would not misguide folks far below the gf7 level, such as our friend, the thread starter.
Upgrade or downgrade is a relative term, relative to the individual's current specs. Lets take the example with the onboard GeForce 6150SE nForce 430/PCI/SSE2/3DNOW! For him, obtaining a machine with a Radeon X800 would be an upgrade, would comply with your "any card" statement, but would not work in TS12. When one gives advice, it should be in the audiences frame of reference, not the advisor's.
Surely you can say this. "I" and "we" cannot.
I guess that's why its free advice.
I just adopted the approach of not stating implicit assumptions and qualifiers. "What I can say virtually for certain is that his complaint is with TS12 and not what his avatar says, TS2009 -- too much time has passed since TS2009 was released to be reporting performance issues now."
What is it that's sure? That I have said it based on a need to nitpick?
And as I have suggested before from personal witness, it is an erroneous statement because Trainz will run with a later gf6.
I believe the value gained here is to have your advice corroborated and to verify its apparent applicability and scope.
Yes, to be able to expect an x800 to run Trainz is as realistic as expecting to be able to run Trainz in Windows 98 as both are unsupported as far as Trainz is concerned. What's so difficult to grasp about that concept?
"Any card" will work fine, especially since the OP doesn't have a card at all.
Actually, it would not: The x800 is not DX9.0c compatible, and it only supports OGL up to 2.0, which is why it wouldn't even run Trainz. Not to mention neither is an option for an upgrade.
Well, if you'd trade in a perfectly-good, almost new Honda for a '76 Pinto, you may have a point. Most reasonable people won't do this.
Yep.
Then he needs to state that. Again, his failure to provide complete information is his problem. (Also, I'm not terribly sympathetic to people who don't register their Trainz - usually, people who don't have a reason why.)
Some people do hate blanket statements, however accurate they may be. A lot of people have things that irritate them.
No, it is not at all erroneous, nor is it necessary to preface every statement with numerous qualifiers. If we have to do that, then be sure to include ("assuming you want a better card and not a worse one") as one of the many qualifiers that would be needed in addressing kris' question. Obviously, we don't need to state the obvious.
"It depends on what the meaning of the word 'is' is. If the--if he--if 'is' means is and never has been, that is not--that is one thing. If it means there is none, that was a completely true statement....Now, if someone had asked me on that day, are you having any kind of sexual relations with Ms. Lewinsky, that is, asked me a question in the present tense, I would have said no. And it would have been completely true.":hehe: