Basemap Creation Request

Hi all,

I was wondering if I could have some assistance with creating basemaps. I was wanting to create a small modular route based on Dapto, on the NSW South Coast. I am not trying to create an exact model; rather I would like to use basemaps as a rough guide to object placement (mainly roads, and of course the railway line!) I am after a smallish area, to fill 3 baseboards, with the station area roughly located in the middle.

I have tried to create a few basemaps, but for some reason i am unable to get to grips with the process, as simple as it sounds. I was therefore wondering if i could ask for assistance from somebody proficient with creation of basemaps.

If you are able to be of assistance, a PM or reply to this thread would be much appreciated.

Thank you,

Matt.

mattm said:

Hi all,

I was wondering if I could have some assistance with creating basemaps. I was wanting to create a small modular route based on Dapto, on the NSW South Coast. I am not trying to create an exact model; rather I would like to use basemaps as a rough guide to object placement (mainly roads, and of course the railway line!) I am after a smallish area, to fill 3 baseboards, with the station area roughly located in the middle.

I have tried to create a few basemaps, but for some reason i am unable to get to grips with the process, as simple as it sounds. I was therefore wondering if i could ask for assistance from somebody proficient with creation of basemaps.

If you are able to be of assistance, a PM or reply to this thread would be much appreciated.

Thank you,

Matt.

Click to expand...

Matt,

Basemaps are not that difficult to use. Simply download the Basemap A-n where n is the last module in the series. They are on the DLS so they are easily available.

Download an image of the area you want to make into a route. You can use Google Maps, or any other map program that can create maps such as something for topographic maps such as ordinance maps.

Make these images 1000 x 1000 pixels.

In Content Manager, clone three of the basemap objects so you don't destroy the originals. The image on them is 1000 x 1000 pixels in size. This is why you want your map to be the same size.

Copy your map to the Basemap's open for edit folder using Windows Explorer.

Rename the original basemap x.tga to basemap x_.tga. This will effectively remove it from action, and act as a backup in case you mess up.

Either rename your downloaded map, to Basemap X, where X is the name of the Basemap image and object, or edit the basemap.texture.txt file to correspond to what your image is called. To be honest it's easier to just rename your file.

You are done with your first basemap. Close this and see if there are any errors. If there are, most likely your file was not saved as an uncompressed tga file. Use Gimp or some other paint program to ensure that it is uncompressed.

Now if everything is working fine, and there are no errors after commiting the files, you can now use them in Surveyor.

Create your new route.

Find the Basemap object in Surveyor under Scenery objects.

Place it on your baseboard.

Now for a couple of hints/tricks.

Go to grid view and move the basemap object below the surface of the baseboard. It only has to be a meter or two, but just enough so you can place your track and roads on top.

This is also where the layers work well. Move the basemap to the Sessions layer while working in the route layer so you don't disturb it while laying tracks and placing objects. If it's "out in the open", you can easily select it and move it or delete instead of the object you want to delete.

Now remember that the basemaps objects are 1000 x 1000 meters in size, and will stick out some from the baseboard its self, which ony 720 x 720 meters. So to get around this, you might want to add some extra baseboards on the end that sticks out. It's your call.

When you're done editing, and like where the tracks and objects are, you can unlock the session layer and delete the basemap object. The only thing left on your route now will be your track and objects you have placed.

If you want to see a route that was done using a basemap object, check out my Scenic and Relaxed. There's one missing dependency on the route. This is my fault. Instead selecting an original item that's on the DLS, I mistakenly used one that I modified. If you want the dependency, I can send you the link for the proper item.

I hope this helps. It's actually easier to do than it is to type all this out.

John

Clone the first three you'll need so you don't wreck the originals.

John,

Thanks for the reply. As i said, to me, it ain't that easy. I have had an offer of help from another member, and while I wait for that to be followed up I may as try and work out where i am going wrong, having made a few more attempts today.

The first attempt used a 1km Google Earth image sized to 1024 x 1024 pixels. This committed alright, and showed up in Trainz, although a quick ruler check showed the image to be out of proportion. The station i checked against in game was 534m, as opposed to a real life measurement of 335m.

I next tried your method, of sizing the image to 1000 x 1000 pixels, which committed with the following error: "The texture '1km square i.jpg' is not a power of 2, please resize it."
I ignored this and loaded Trainz, where I found the basemap image was blurred beyond recognition.

So, after the two attempts today, and numerous before hand, following several tutorials, i am unable to get a basemap that imports to Trainz as it should. They are either out of proportion or blurred beyond recognition.

That is why i put out this request, as what is seemingly simple for some, is for me a royal PITA, and something i would rather not do. However the alternative is to spend time flicking between GE and Trainz, which is also a PITA, and not something I would like to spend too much time doing.

Matt.

Hello Matt

The trick with getting the image correctly sized on the basemap is to have a reference on the image itself. I used a UK Ordnance Survey map, which has convenient 1 kilometre grid squares already printed on it. If you use images of terrain, or different scale maps, you could add your own 1k square to the image (e.g. using the ruler yellow lines in Google Earth, or simply draw lines in MS Paint over the image).

The key to success is to resize the image so that the 1024x1024 (not 1000, it must be ‘power of 2’) image exactly matches that 1k square on the image. I do this in MS Paint, Image-Resize, changing the percentages to the same value in both horizontal and vertical in the boxes. Some trial and error is needed for this to work, but once done, it becomes automatic.

The other tip, if using original maps or aerial photographs, is to photograph them on a digital camera. For me, that works far better than scanning. When photographing that physical image, I use a mini tripod, zoom to reduce distortion (wide angle will bend the lines on my cheap camera) and get the 1k square line to exactly fit the viewfinder at opposite edges. I do this by moving the camera up and down on the tripod, with the original photo/map lying flat on the floor or table.

The blurring is inevitable. It will never be as sharp as the assets. Here’s an image of what I use, which is tolerable. I’m not sure you will get much better, although I’ve never tried 2048x2048.

It used to be a royal PITA for me as well until a few weeks ago. i gave it one last try, and it then all fell into place.

Good luck!

Cheers
Casper




Imageshack

Thank you, Casper for jumping in. This is very helpful.

Sorry for 1000 x 1000 instead of 1024 x 1024. At that time of night, I become a little brain fried!

It is a PITA, but once you get the hang of it, everything falls into place. I use this method to bring drawing schematics in from layout books. They are great for yard configurations and small routes.

John

Hi John

I know exactly what you mean about fried brains in the early hours!

Sorry if this is slightly off topic, but I'm interested in the possibilities of using layers in TS2010 (I may one day take the plunge!).

Can you place the basemaps in a different layer to other objects, such as buildings and vegetation?

The reason for asking is that the basemap is also an object. When adjusting other objects over the top of the map it is so easy to move or even delete it, particularly easy when the map is buried and you're not in wireframe mode!. It's not so bad if you only have one baseboard, but if two or three basemaps have shifted or disappeared it can be hell getting them back into line.

I've since taught myself to place the World Origin 'birdbath' on a significantly memorable point on my Routes which can be realigned precisely with the map, but it's still irritating when I accidentally move or delete.

I just wondered whether layers might be a better workable option.

Cheers
Casper

Hi guys,

Casper, thank you indeed for jumping in. Any little piice of information is helpful. I don't know what I did (or didn't do:hehe this time, but last night, i had another go at the whole process; and what do you know, I got it this time!

The process I used to get my image from Google Earth to Trainz is as follows:

1. Find area I am interested in replicating.
2. Using the Ruler tool, create a 1km square 'box.'
3. Zoom in so ruler is just visible, then use MS Snip tool to copy the box.
4. Save image.
5. Open image in Irfanview, and resize to 1024 x 1024.
6. Open CM, clone basemap & open for edit.
7. Copy GE image, and replace '1km square xx' with GE image.
8. Close editing folder, commit asset & launch Trainz.

I don't know why it worked this time, but it did. Would anyone like to make any educated guesses as to where i may have gone wrong on my previous attempts?

Cheers,

Matt.

It could possibly be the 1 kilometre "reference" square that was "painted" on the top of the image not being set to the extreme edges of the image.

I found that was critical.

If I didn't have it at the opposite edges of the picture prior to the precise 1024x1024 sizing, it would be very difficult to get right.

The other possibility is that an error was made, and your box wasn't exactly 1 kilometre square in your earler attempts. Easily done...!

Great to hear you've got it sorted!:Y:

Cheers
Casper

mezzoprezzo said:

Hi John

I know exactly what you mean about fried brains in the early hours!

Sorry if this is slightly off topic, but I'm interested in the possibilities of using layers in TS2010 (I may one day take the plunge!).

Can you place the basemaps in a different layer to other objects, such as buildings and vegetation?

The reason for asking is that the basemap is also an object. When adjusting other objects over the top of the map it is so easy to move or even delete it, particularly easy when the map is buried and you're not in wireframe mode!. It's not so bad if you only have one baseboard, but if two or three basemaps have shifted or disappeared it can be hell getting them back into line.

I've since taught myself to place the World Origin 'birdbath' on a significantly memorable point on my Routes which can be realigned precisely with the map, but it's still irritating when I accidentally move or delete.

I just wondered whether layers might be a better workable option.

Cheers
Casper

Click to expand...

Absolutely you should put your basemaps on a separate layer. You can then lock the layer, so the basemaps won't move. And you can quickly hide the basemap layer at any time.

The layers function has made using basemaps quite practical, whereas before 2010 they were really tricky to use.

Mick Berg.

mezzoprezzo said:

Hi John

I know exactly what you mean about fried brains in the early hours!

Sorry if this is slightly off topic, but I'm interested in the possibilities of using layers in TS2010 (I may one day take the plunge!).

Can you place the basemaps in a different layer to other objects, such as buildings and vegetation?

The reason for asking is that the basemap is also an object. When adjusting other objects over the top of the map it is so easy to move or even delete it, particularly easy when the map is buried and you're not in wireframe mode!. It's not so bad if you only have one baseboard, but if two or three basemaps have shifted or disappeared it can be hell getting them back into line.

I've since taught myself to place the World Origin 'birdbath' on a significantly memorable point on my Routes which can be realigned precisely with the map, but it's still irritating when I accidentally move or delete.

I just wondered whether layers might be a better workable option.

Cheers
Casper

Click to expand...

You sure can, Casper. I do that all the time. I even created a temporary layer called Basemap and add the basemap object to that layer so I can fiddle with the objects on the top of it without having the basemap move all over the place, or worse get deleted unintentionally as you say here.

John

Thanks John and Mick.

It seemed a logical application for the new facility.

Good to know that it works.

Cheers
Casper

Hi,

Now that i have basemap creation under control, there's one last question I want to ask before I get stuck into it. Are basemaps a viable option for texture placement, or is there another method that i could use that would yield more realistic results?

I know it seems like a silly question, but I thought I would ask anyway.

Edit: One more, then I'll stop. Is it easier, do people think, to lay one basemap at a time, and work on a tile by tile basis, or would it be easier to lay them all down at the start and get it over with? I'd be interested to hear what people think on this one.

Cheers for all your help so far,

Matt.

Hi mattm
I have sent a sample but see you have got it figured now. The reason it did not work before was your images are to small and got distorted when you sized them up to fit the basemap image. The larger the saved image the better.

mattm said:

Hi,

Now that i have basemap creation under control, there's one last question I want to ask before I get stuck into it. Are basemaps a viable option for texture placement, or is there another method that i could use that would yield more realistic results?

I know it seems like a silly question, but I thought I would ask anyway.

Edit: One more, then I'll stop. Is it easier, do people think, to lay one basemap at a time, and work on a tile by tile basis, or would it be easier to lay them all down at the start and get it over with? I'd be interested to hear what people think on this one.

Cheers for all your help so far,

Matt.

Click to expand...

Matt,

Don't worry about asking questions here. This is what the forums are for!

The number of baseboards you put down at once is all up to you. However... I find that the computer seems to get a bit chunky when using these objects. So, I'd recommened from my experience to use one at a time.

The alternative way to use an awesome program called TransDem by GeoPhil (Roland Ziegler). This program doesn't create basemaps, but instead allows you to import DEM files and the graphic overlay files from the USGS, USGOV and Google Earth servers so you can generate the terrain, complete with the hills in place, and even the track if you want to go that far.

I've only started using this wonderful program, but have lost my copy due to a severe hardware crash, which ate my hard drive. There are quite a few people here and a lot of threads regarding this product. The product costs around $35-36 US, which is great for what it does.

John

stagecoach said:

Hi mattm
I have sent a sample but see you have got it figured now. The reason it did not work before was your images are to small and got distorted when you sized them up to fit the basemap image. The larger the saved image the better.

Click to expand...

Stagecoach, thanks for that. I just got your email, however, as you say I seem to have gotten basemaps under control (fingers crossed.) Thank you for your assistance. It was much appreciated.

JCitron said:

Matt,

Don't worry about asking questions here. This is what the forums are for!

The alternative way to use an awesome program called TransDem by GeoPhil (Roland Ziegler). This program doesn't create basemaps, but instead allows you to import DEM files and the graphic overlay files from the USGS, USGOV and Google Earth servers so you can generate the terrain, complete with the hills in place, and even the track if you want to go that far.

John

Click to expand...

John, I was wondering when TransDem would get a mention. I have read the numerous threads on the subject, and while it does seem like a nifty little program, it is out of my reach, financially, at the moment. It also doesn't fit in with what i want to achieve with the use of basemaps.

My aim is to take images from GE, of areas that i find interesting for one reason or another, overlay them onto basemaps, and then use them as rough guides to placing major structures (roads, rail, industry) and basic textures; and then the rest would be done how I think it should look.

I know I could just create a completely prototypical route, with just a little extra effort ,but that's not what I like to do in Trainz. I prefer to create fictional routes, as I don't have to get to bogged down in fine detail.

Cheers,

Matt.

mattm said:

~snip~
Edit: One more, then I'll stop. Is it easier, do people think, to lay one basemap at a time, and work on a tile by tile basis, or would it be easier to lay them all down at the start and get it over with? I'd be interested to hear what people think on this one.

Cheers for all your help so far,

Matt.

Click to expand...

Hello again Matt,

I only ever laid just a single basemap when I was getting the hang of how to do it.

Now, I lay between four and nine at a time. Personally, I wouldn't put any more than that down.

That way you can always be visually sure that the adjacent one is lined up correctly to the next. You can then work away from that cluster, adding the next and deleting the oldest as you progress.

I think that laying just one would have too many disadvantages. It is helpful to see what is coming up next. You can always raise or lower the basemaps independently anyway. They can be left out of sight below the baseboard, if you are not in wireframe mode, but that does increase the risk of accidental movement or deletion.

That's why I use the World origin "birdbath", and set it to a known landmark. Mine is set over a prominent castle tower. If (when!) I accidently delete or shift a basemap, accurate replacement is then a doddle.

Using layers, if you have the facility, clearly gets over this problem as stated earlier in the thread. However, the World Origin facility is a great tool to use anyway for all sorts of other reasons where lat/long references can be used. (I never trust it for height though!)

And don't stop asking! There are plenty around here willing to share and discuss solutions. It helps everyone to learn. I get to know something new here nearly every day.

Cheers
Casper

Bump!

Hi all,

Bumping this thread to ask one more question. I'm finally having success with basemap creation, and now have two WIP's in which i am experimenting with various techniques. That is all progressing well, however I have come across something annoying with the basemaps.

Occasionally, they flash out of view at various angles, or when I am trying to position them.

Is there any way to stop this occurring, as i find it somewhat irritating to be rotating the baseboard to its correct orientation, or trying to line it up with it's 'partner', only to have the bleeding thing disappear!

As always, any assistance is appreciated.

Matt.

When you place them in surveyor open the properties for it and give it a name. This seems to stabalise that effect to some extent.

Cheers for that Stagecoach. I will give it a try later.

Matt.

stagecoach said:

When you place them in surveyor open the properties for it and give it a name. This seems to stabalise that effect to some extent.

Click to expand...

That's cool. Thank you Stagecoach for the tip.

John