nv3'S Recommendations aint worth a hill of beans.

i was told by NV3 that they would not give help support for SP1 and that i should upgrade to newer versions, so i migrated to SP4 , twice in the past weeks i have lost hours of work, despite saving and working on the route layer every time, today, i saved the work I'd completed, it was there when I came back to start again, then went to have dinner.

I saved, logged out and lo, when i came back to work on it again, the past two hours work had completely disappeared, YET ONLY PART OF IT, , some things I'd worked on after they others were there ....other items were gone. . I've had locos and rolling stock disappear into thin air , none of which happened with SP1 .

So thank you SO much NV3 'SUPPORT 'TEAM, youve caused me far more angst and trouble than you need have. Before you state that I should be using SP5, I've asked around here and no one can really state categorically that i will be any better off, and no the work isn't saved in the session layer. I actually quit just now without saving and the items i added before I realised that other work had disappeared were there , when i hadnt saved the work !!!!!!! go figure that one !!!!!*(**((&(&(&(&).

No wonder i save to cdp three times daily., but i just missed out today , i should probably save to cdp every time i stop working on the route !

There is an issue with going from SP1 to SP4 with fixed track connections, it makes spagetti. If you try to go from SP1 to SP5 before editing or using the route, it may not have those issues. Things were sorted out in SP5. This was my experience.

Edit: Download a Grid Region and create a new route as your first task. Edit Route and change the region to the downloaded one. If you don't, all new baseboards will be filled with PBR Grass 8 I think, and you will have no carz car traffic. The downloaded new grid regions will restore that.

Here are the grid regions I made;

<kuid:647907:102162> CDE UK Grid Region
<kuid:647907:102143> CDE USA Grid Region

Only difference is what side of the road the carz cars drive on

Thanks Christopher, I was wondering why this happens and the solution worked.

Fortunately, I saved a SP1 installation. I now use that for development in TRS19 rather than SP5. Now things have settled down. Now:

I can use Edit Trains and not have the disasters that come from UDS
Drivers no longer appear and disappear with detached portraits
Edits to the session rules are committed immediately, instead of randomly
Phantom consists named for drivers that were in a layer that was deleted not longer appear in the consist lists

pitkin and dangavel, I have been using the UDS and TRS19 Platinum SP5 on major projects without any of those problems. Using the UDS does take some discipline when saving but once you know the rules there are no disasters, for me at least.

My observations.

I have TS2019 SP0 (the original release) and SP1, - I also have TRS22 5.1. The 'update' patches after SP1 were so much an unmitigated disaster I never bothered to investigate SP5. My own observations on UDS is that it's an accident waiting to happen and a great way to lose hours of work so after a short trial (and finding it guilty) I never used it again.
If you still have a copy of your SP1 install my advice is to go back to it. Yes there are the usual issues with payware/builtin/packaged assets and dependencies being locked up in the later versions, but nothing that can't be worked around. If you really want a proper update go to TRS22 which I've found to be a significant improvement over TS2019/TRS19. I don't use the new surveyor since it's a step too far for my old clockwork brain, but the old familiar original surveyor is still available and it works just fine.

It's too bad that the interface suffers from the typical N3V confusion because it's extremely powerful and can go a long way if the implementation was better. After falling down pretty hard and ending up with drivers outside of their starting position after editing things while in Driver, I learned the hard way about what not to use UDS for and now I only use it to test TRC and ATLS, and signals while in Surveyor and not in Driver. In that setup, I'll put the hardware together, plop down a quick consist, and give the driver time a test to see if the config works. After making the changes, in Surveyor, I delete my test consist.

With that said, I find TRS19 SP5 and TRS22 5.1 to be much better to use. Both of these versions for one got rid of the spaghetti track issue but did require me to unfix my fixes I had made previously in a few places. The driver commands too remain selected in the sessions and overall the performance is better.

KotangaGirl said:

I have TS2019 SP0 (the original release) and SP1, - I also have TRS22 5.1. The 'update' patches after SP1 were so much an unmitigated disaster I never bothered to investigate SP5. My own observations on UDS is that it's an accident waiting to happen and a great way to lose hours of work so after a short trial (and finding it guilty) I never used it again.
If you still have a copy of your SP1 install my advice is to go back to it. Yes there are the usual issues with payware/builtin/packaged assets and dependencies being locked up in the later versions, but nothing that can't be worked around. If you really want a proper update go to TRS22 which I've found to be a significant improvement over TS2019/TRS19. I don't use the new surveyor since it's a step too far for my old clockwork brain, but the old familiar original surveyor is still available and it works just fine.

Click to expand...

I cannot go back to sp1 as I've made most of my new route in SP4 and also my sp1 install on mac is unable to work , the environmental controls are,for some reason, stuffed and reinstalling doesn't fix the issues. i cant get nv3 to troubleshoot the problem , so I'm stuck with either sp4 and 5 on my PC as my mac is too old to install a newer os which will work with sp2 upwards. The only good thing about the whole mess is that 2019 looks a lot better , I just have to accept that every now and again I am going to lose work unless i back up to cdp every time i save , I've just bought a new 2tb drove to accommodate my CDP saves of which there are dozens ( I do go and delete most of them once they are a few weeks old, but this is an absurd situation isn't it?

pitkin said:

Fortunately, I saved a SP1 installation. I now use that for development in TRS19 rather than SP5. Now things have settled down. Now:

I can use Edit Trains and not have the disasters that come from UDS
Drivers no longer appear and disappear with detached portraits
Edits to the session rules are committed immediately, instead of randomly
Phantom consists named for drivers that were in a layer that was deleted not longer appear in the consist lists

Click to expand...

The real big confusion I have with drivers is that they have different names in the normal play from what appears in map view and sometimes elsewhere - forgotten where elsewhere was.

You go Girl

KotangaGirl said:

I have TS2019 SP0 (the original release) and SP1, - I also have TRS22 5.1. The 'update' patches after SP1 were so much an unmitigated disaster I never bothered to investigate SP5. My own observations on UDS is that it's an accident waiting to happen and a great way to lose hours of work so after a short trial (and finding it guilty) I never used it again.
If you still have a copy of your SP1 install my advice is to go back to it. Yes there are the usual issues with payware/builtin/packaged assets and dependencies being locked up in the later versions, but nothing that can't be worked around. If you really want a proper update go to TRS22 which I've found to be a significant improvement over TS2019/TRS19. I don't use the new surveyor since it's a step too far for my old clockwork brain, but the old familiar original surveyor is still available and it works just fine.

Click to expand...

Hi, you would not happen to have off-line installers for SP0 or SP1 that you would like to share with me, would you??? Of course, only if you think it is a kosher thing to do!

I've stated before that I think my working build of 2019 was hijacked by N3V when I became a Gold Member and it was replaced with a broken Trainz + build automatically and I am unhappy ever-after!!!!

Wild Willy the Wacko

WildWillyWacko said:

Hi, you would not happen to have off-line installers for SP0 or SP1 that you would like to share with me, would you??? Of course, only if you think it is a kosher thing to do!

I've stated before that I think my working build of 2019 was hijacked by N3V when I became a Gold Member and it was replaced with a broken Trainz + build automatically and I am unhappy ever-after!!!!

Wild Willy the Wacko

Click to expand...

My SP0 install was loaded from the original release DVDs and my SP1 install is a patched SP0 install that I kept a copy of and archived away before I patched the original to the disaster that was SP2. So unfortunately I can't help with an off-line installer for these early versions of TS2019. Just to be completely certain I did check my backup hard drives, but no luck sorry to say.

pware said:

pitkin and dangavel, I have been using the UDS and TRS19 Platinum SP5 on major projects without any of those problems. Using the UDS does take some discipline when saving but once you know the rules there are no disasters, for me at least.

My observations.

Click to expand...

Unfortunately, I think it is the other way around. In SP5, I did not use UDS because it does not fit my Session creation procedure, which I have outlined in earlier threads. i tried to use just save in Surveyor, then open in Driver. My theory is that, in the rush to UDS, something in saving is defective if you do not use it.

Thanks for trying !

KotangaGirl said:

My SP0 install was loaded from the original release DVDs and my SP1 install is a patched SP0 install that I kept a copy of and archived away before I patched the original to the disaster that was SP2. So unfortunately I can't help with an off-line installer for these early versions of TS2019. Just to be completely certain I did check my backup hard drives, but no luck sorry to say.

Click to expand...

Prior to 2019 I always preferred buying the " hard copy " DVD Trainz versions but I guess I was in a hurry and just did the digital download. I should have opted to also get the disk as a back-up!

I am somewhat of an undisciplined person and I have a really hard time managing digital back-ups and such but having the disk on a shelf, I can deal with.

I bought another SSD recently with the idea that I might keep a collection of builds so that when they put out a bad one, I can fall back but I don't know exactly know how I'm going to accomplish that!!!!!!


Wild Willy the Wacko

At one time, I was under the impression that a trainz installation did not use the registry; only a build file and a folder with the game files needed. Just thinking out loud here. If someone (with a record of TRS19 purchase, of course) had a copy of a SP1 game file folder, could they just point it at their current build file? Or maybe someone else's build file? Just saying ....

Since Kotangagirl has 2019 Platinum, it would not be the correct installer for 2019 Standard anyway, I don't think. I have the installer for build 105100, but that is for Platinum. I am not sure if that is SP0 or SP1 or 2.

Forester1 said:

Since Kotangagirl has 2019 Platinum, it would not be the correct installer for 2019 Standard anyway, I don't think. I have the installer for build 105100, but that is for Platinum. I am not sure if that is SP0 or SP1 or 2.

Click to expand...

What I am wondering, is an installer required if you have a legal copy of another game folder, or even the build as well? That's if you already own the game, of course.

Forester1 said:

Since Kotangagirl has 2019 Platinum, it would not be the correct installer for 2019 Standard anyway, I don't think. I have the installer for build 105100, but that is for Platinum. I am not sure if that is SP0 or SP1 or 2.

Click to expand...

Forester1,
I'm still using TRS19 SP1 and my build number is also 105100.

(Love your Hendrix quote)

Thanks for the clarification, Dave. I have added it to the filename of the installer.

I don't know if this help with this conversation or not but, 'TRS19 Service Pack 2 (SP2), Build 110491, unifies all TRS19 customers onto the same build number with cross-compatibility for content, routes and sessions including multiplayer.'

See this page for the build numbers;
https://online.ts2009.com/mediaWiki/index.php/Build_Numbers

I seem to remeber, but can't find it now, that the installers were the same for Regional, Base and Platinum from SP2 and beyond. Your username unlocked the features.