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Thread: TANE & TRS19 won't run with a RTX 3090

  1. #16
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    Where have you installed it? hopefully not in program files, that can have write restriction issues, also putting your userdata somewhere else other than in the default C:\Users\yourusername\AppData\Local\N3V Games\trs19\buildxxxxxxxxx\

    I put TRS19 on a separate drive and create a userdata folder in the TRS19 folder and redirect TRS19 to use that folder rather than the default, keeps thing simple and easier to backup the whole setup in one go. Only thing that needs to be in
    C:\Users\yourusername\AppData\Local\N3V Games\trs19\ is userdata-redirect-map.txt which tells TRS19 where your data is.

    Copy of one of mine for info.
    Code:
    "h:/trainz railroad simulator 2019" "H:/Trainz Railroad Simulator 2019/userdata"
    Similar for TANE but the default would be in C:\Users\yourusername\AppData\Local\N3V Games\TANE\buildxxxxxxxxx\ and the userdata-redirect-map.txt would refer to TANE
    Malc


  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by clam1952 View Post
    Where have you installed it? hopefully not in program files, that can have write restriction issues, also putting your userdata somewhere else other than in the default C:\Users\yourusername\AppData\Local\N3V Games\trs19\buildxxxxxxxxx\

    I put TRS19 on a separate drive and create a userdata folder in the TRS19 folder and redirect TRS19 to use that folder rather than the default, keeps thing simple and easier to backup the whole setup in one go. Only thing that needs to be in
    C:\Users\yourusername\AppData\Local\N3V Games\trs19\ is userdata-redirect-map.txt which tells TRS19 where your data is.


    Copy of one of mine for info.
    Code:
    "h:/trainz railroad simulator 2019" "H:/Trainz Railroad Simulator 2019/userdata"
    Similar for TANE but the default would be in C:\Users\yourusername\AppData\Local\N3V Games\TANE\buildxxxxxxxxx\ and the userdata-redirect-map.txt would refer to TANE
    The original TANE and TRS19 applications were (and still are) hosted entirely on their own dedicated SSDs, named drive R: for Tane and drive T: for TRS19. As you say, only the user redirect map is in C:\Users\AppData etc.. I took those SSDs from the old PC and installed them in the new PC, using Windows Disc Manager to install them and name them R: and T: drives, as they were in the old PC. I copied the old PC C:\User\AppDaya\etc redirect text file to the same location in the new PC.

    The clean install of TRS19 is installed on the C: drive but not in the program files folder. It's in a folder C:\TRS19.

    The thing is, all of the Trainz applications will: start; load the initial dialogue box; load and run "Manage Content" (with no freezing when used); load the "Start Trainz" splash screen; and sometimes get as far as being able to start Surveyor or Driver for a session/route...... and then it freezes.

    I hope N3V will be able to spot the problem in the log files.

    I've once more been through every security parameter being applied to Trainz and can find nothing obviously untoward.

    Lataxe

  3. #18
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    quite similar to the problem I'm experiencing

  4. #19
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    May be the Driver, lots of complaints on the Nvidia forums https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce...ack-thread-re/, I'm still on the previous one.

    Meanwhile, clutching at straws here but maybe try HDMI instead of display port, if you can, there have been issues in the past where one or other isn't working correctly, due to driver issues.

    A thought, have a look at event viewer and see if there are any errors or warnings relating to the GPU.
    Malc


  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by clam1952 View Post
    May be the Driver, lots of complaints on the Nvidia forums https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce...ack-thread-re/, I'm still on the previous one.

    Meanwhile, clutching at straws here but maybe try HDMI instead of display port, if you can, there have been issues in the past where one or other isn't working correctly, due to driver issues.

    A thought, have a look at event viewer and see if there are any errors or warnings relating to the GPU.
    Hello Malc,

    Yes, I tried the alternative cables, but behaviour is identical with DisplayPort and HDMI cables.

    The Windows Event Log shows one error type associated with the GPU but that's a small issue between the GPU and Photoshop when the option to use the GPU to perform various Photoshop tasks is switched on. I never have Photoshop or any other program running (other than background services) when Trainz is attempted. There are no events shown in the Windows Event log indicating problems with an attempt to run Trainz.

    The Help Desk keep asking me to try running this or that from the Content Manager drop down "open" command but this just has the same result of a frozen screen, with the logfile either scrolling forever in attempting to load and failing (5 hours is the longest I've left it running); or the logfile ceasing to show any activity and nothing happening despite Task Manager showing the CPU and RAM being used to a significant degree. Perhaps I should send N3V the electricity bill? :-)

    I've sent three logfiles now to the Help Desk but they don't seem to find anything in them since they don't mention them. They also tell me I can't submit a bug report as those are only for beta testers.

    I'm at the point of abandoning Trainz in favour of something that doesn't require as much or more program fixing as it does program using.

    It must be something in the interface of Trainz to the new hardware in the new PC and/or to the new O/S (Windows 10 professional rather than Windows 7 Home Premium). What is the interface glitch? I can't find it and, seemingly, neither can the Help Desk, even with all those logfiles.

    So .... a PC with near state of the art hardware can' run Trainz. Oh dear. :-)

    Lataxe

  6. #21
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    Another longshot, if you have Nvidia Experience running, remove it, that caused problems here, also the Win10 Game bar doesn't like Trainz much.

    Got any other games you can try? may narrow it down to if it is a Trainz problem or driver / GPU one. If no suitable games perhaps the free trial of Passmarks performance test? It carries on working after 30 days with some of the more advanced stuff disabled that's aimed mostly at the benchmarking obsessed. https://www.passmark.com/products/performancetest/

    Another thought the 3900s need two separate leads from the PSU, not one with multiple connectors, the builder may have slipped up there.

    Maybe run GPUz at the same time and see what readings it's showing, also performance monitor and see if anything else is running, in particular on the TRS19 drive.
    Malc


  7. #22
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    I have not waded through this thread, but I do open the Nvidia control panel and there is a tab to choose pre-configured settings for different games. I use that for TRS19. The other day, Black Ops was hanging after installation. And this technique fixed it immediately.
    Platinum 2019 Build 111951; 2019 SP1 Build 105096; TANE SP4 Build 105766
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  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by clam1952 View Post
    Another longshot, if you have Nvidia Experience running, remove it, that caused problems here, also the Win10 Game bar doesn't like Trainz much.

    Got any other games you can try? may narrow it down to if it is a Trainz problem or driver / GPU one. If no suitable games perhaps the free trial of Passmarks performance test? It carries on working after 30 days with some of the more advanced stuff disabled that's aimed mostly at the benchmarking obsessed. https://www.passmark.com/products/performancetest/

    Another thought the 3900s need two separate leads from the PSU, not one with multiple connectors, the builder may have slipped up there.

    Maybe run GPUz at the same time and see what readings it's showing, also performance monitor and see if anything else is running, in particular on the TRS19 drive.
    Malc,

    The xbox Games Bar is disabled and I've uninstalled Geoforce Experience. Neither make any difference to Trainz freezing.

    However, the Passmark performance testing software indicates something wrong with the 3D performance of the 3090. It whizzes through part of the various tests with a ridiculously high frame rate showing but stalls with an "Unexpected Error". The driver is the most up-to-date for the GPU from Nvidia so ..... I've asked the PC provider (Chillblast) to have a look. They do have a very good after sales service so I'm hopeful they can spot a GPU driver problem and put it right.

    The RTX 3090 is fairly new design and, as you mentioned in a previous post, the usual teething problems with early Nvidia drivers seem to be showing themselves.

    Lataxe

  9. #24
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    Not sure if it helps, I'm running an RTX 2060 with the 461.92 Driver. Trainz is fine with that set up (Swap you?).

    My PC was also built by Chillblast and has been pretty much rock solid.

    I have my Virus Checker excluded from the Trains directories (and the Trainz directory in the user directory (only the Trainz directory - not the whole thing!)

    One thing I have changed in the nVidia Control Panel is to limit the GPU to 80fps maximum. This has reduced the load on the GPU without noticeable effect.

    Have you given TrainzUtil.exe sufficient rights?

    Last thought - I've found that if I have to usw task manager to end Trainz, then I have to wait a little bit, then do a database rebuild - same as for a program crash as it appears to leave the database in a messy state -

    Are you using "maximise compatibility" in settings?

    Colin

  10. #25
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    Thanks all for the helpful suggestions so far. Unfortunately neither they nor the suggestions from the N3V Helpdesk have changed anything. Both TANE and TRS19 continue to freeze sooner or later (5 minutes at best, usually 20 seconds) after "Start Trainz" or starting a session/route from Content Manager.

    I have managed to update the Nvidia drivers one increment, which should be automatic but isn't quite as it involves some sort of choice between a direct Nvidia download of the driver vs a Microsoft Store (Win10) download. That's now been sorted out and the GPU shows the performance it should when tested with the Passmark software that Malc recommended. No change to the Trainz problem though - which doesn't seem to be a GPU problem anyway as Task Manager shows little GPU activity when Trainz is started and none when it freezes, whereas there's significant amounts of CPU and RAM activity - doing what, I don't know. The logfile freezes too, with a final entry of:

    ; <NULL> GSRouterne(), 4 outstanding node(s)
    ; <NULL> GSRouterne(), 4 outstanding node(s)
    ; <NULL> GSRouterne(), 4 outstanding node(s)
    ; <NULL> GSRouterne(), 4 outstanding node(s)

    This morning I managed to get a clean install of TRS19 to run a Kickstarter-2 session for nearly 5 minutes but it too froze and nothing would restart it. Same syndrome of zero GPU activity but an ongoing churn in the CPU and RAM.

    The (non) progress with the Help desk has been somewhat glacial as I get one message every 24 hours (weekends excluded) with simple things like "try an extended database repair" or "move your Trainz installation to a different location". As though I wouldn't have already tried every get-it-moving-again fix already found a hundred times in the forum!

    On the other hand, both TANE and TRS19 ran on my old Win7 PC with just the usual common-or-garden variety glitches such as CTDs, BSODs, periods of stutter and red bugs. The very same stuff transported wholesale on their dedicated SSDs from one PC to another won't run on the new PC. Neither will a newly installed "clean" version. This suggests that there's something in Win10 Pro or in the new hardware driver stuff that Trainz doesn't like. But, as ever, every other program I have transferred without issue to the new PC and they all now run like greased lightning.

    SO - I have nothing left to try other than to wipe Trainz from the new PC and take up another creative PC-based hobby (probably 4K video). I'll miss the creative aspects of route building but, to be blunt, the last 6 months when Trainz was "working" have seen so many glitches and associated frustrations that I was about to give up on it anyway. Being unable to get it running at all on a modern PC with an RTX3090 GPU, a Threadripper CPU, and tons of Firecuda M.2 storage as well as 64 Gb of RAM ...... well .... goodbye Trainz and thanks for all the mish(mash). :-)

    Lataxe
    Last edited by Lataxe; March 28th, 2021 at 11:52 AM.

  11. #26
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    Are you using "maximise compatibility" in settings?

    This is an extremely important tip, even if it does not solve the OP's problem.
    Platinum 2019 Build 111951; 2019 SP1 Build 105096; TANE SP4 Build 105766
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  12. #27
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    I have seen the program freeze, graphics wise, but the CPU and disk continue to operate. This lack of GPU activity is due to nothing moving around on the video card and the program is stuck because something is stomping on it. Have you checked your system components? I see you updated the graphics drivers, but how about checking your physical disks for errors, or perhaps your RAM? How about your Windows 10 install freshly installed or not?

    Freezing after 5 minutes or so seems to be hardware related and not software.

    For starters, run SFC.

    Open a command prompt with admin-permissions.

    At the prompt, type SFC /scannow and press enter.

    This will run and clean up any Windows anomalies that may have occurred if you've reset your PC via the reset button or powered off while things are running.

    After that I would check the RAM. Use MEMTST86, or the built-in memory tester.

    I would check the disks for errors, and also check the RAM, power and heat.

    It could be that one of these components, regardless if they are new or not, is having problems. It could be as simple as adjusting the timing on your RAM. I had an odd issue with this, which unfortunately lead me to replacing my RAM, due to the components having a timing problem. I would freeze randomly, crash to the desktop more often than not, and eventually I had only 32GB instead of 64GB installed. I removed the upper 32GB and the system ran fine, but if I installed the other 32 GB again, I could no longer boot! I then checked the RAM spec while it was what it was supposed to be, I should have used one on the recommended list given by the motherboard manufacturer. When I switched from Crucial to G-Skill, the problem went away.

    RAM too could be sensitive to heat. A cold solder joint on one of the surface-mounted RAM chips on one of DIMMs can wreak havoc and create all kinds of weird and nearly untraceable problems due to thermal expansion. As a board technician, these things are pure hell to find and we ended up twisting the motherboard to find them because it caused the ever-so-tiny legs to lift off the surface just enough to interrupt and fail. Heating up, the components will move just slightly and also fail in a similar fashion, and this effect happens over time and not immediately. A RAM chip its self could be trashed and losing a bit here and there just at the critical time. A normal application may not hit that location, but if you're so happen to be lucky, or unlucky at this point, the programs will fail. I've seen this a few times as well. This is where MEMTST86 comes in handy.

    Power supplies can do this. Trainz, being a graphics and system-intensive program, will push components hard. This doesn't matter what version, or what operating system and hardware drivers. The particular power supply that gave me problem was brand new. I got it along with other components, not for the system I mentioned before, but another build I did many years ago. Everything would run fine for about a half-hour, but as soon as I put any kind of load on the system, things would freeze. It turned out that the power supply couldn't put out what it was supposed to under load and one of the power-rails would drop suddenly. Thinking about it now, it was probably a bad voltage regulator or capacitor. I used to fix power supplies in the past and this was usually the problem. (Given that this was a switching power supply and I didn't have schematics, I would not attempt a repair on this unit. It's a good way of getting killed!)

    Heat... Components don't like to get warm. Ensure your vents are adequately clear and that the components are adequately cooled. As things heat up, they become flaky, and over time sadly they become more sensitive to heat leading to early death. Been here and done that as well as a tech. We used burn-in ovens to find the early failures, but PCs operating can act as burn-in ovens since the heat inside the case is additive. This means the heat from your CPU is adding to the heat from your video card, RAM, disks, etc., and not being vented out fast enough. The solutions for this is add more fans, or changing the case for a more spacious one to allow for adequate airflow.

    And finally, have you run an EDR? This may very well be required now that the program has crashed more than once. There's a good chance that you're driving yourself into a circle of failures due to the crashes on the crashes as things get more muddied and worse. It's like digging a hole and getting in deeper while trying to get out of the mud. So after checking the other things mentioned, run an EDR before trying again and see how that works out.

    I truly understand your frustration.
    John
    Trainz User Since: 12-2003
    Trainz User ID: 124863
    T:ANE Build: 94829
    TRS2019/Trainz-PLUS: 109641

  13. #28
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    adjusting the timing on your RAM.

    if your bios has a default setting for RAM, or "use SPD" then try that. Pushing RAM timing will often result in not even being able to boot.
    Platinum 2019 Build 111951; 2019 SP1 Build 105096; TANE SP4 Build 105766
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  14. #29
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    Re that GS Router problem, see this thread post 5 onwards seems to be related to a faulty locomotive in this case. https://forums.auran.com/trainz/show...ng-please-wait
    Malc


  15. #30
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    Lataxe - Don't give up hope - you know that TRS19 is worth fighting for!
    There's a new Driver ver. 465.89 from Nvidia that is worth installing (and you can elect to omit the GeForce Experience package from installation).
    This driver brings resizable BAR to the RTX-3090 and all other 30-series Ampere cards.
    I had some start-up issues with an update to one of my Affinity desktop publishing programs recently which was resolved by removing the old drivers and DLLs for my unused Intel GPU integrated with my i7 CPU.
    Perhaps you are experiencing something similar from the support drivers for a legacy hardware item or device?
    Or perhaps your new Threadripper CPU is introducing some new spanners in the works when run in association with an nVidia GPU when run with high-intensity 3D loads?
    My view is that your freezing issues with Trainz is likely less to do with your GPU than the CPU, and some sort of blocking protection is occurring whilst under certain loads.
    Last edited by PC_Ace; March 31st, 2021 at 01:46 AM.

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