Building a computer for TS19

stouthm

Get over it
I'm going to have a computer built for me so I can run TS19 with hopefully all the sliders full. JNCS has built my last three computers and I really like their work and have had very little problems which they took care of in a timely matter. I'm 74 so this may be my last computer so I want it to be good. I'm thinking of getting either a EVGA GTX Ti SC Gaming 4GB card or the EVGA GTX 1060 SC Gaming 3GB. Is 650 Watts enough power for the entire system? Both cards need 500 watts. 16 GB of RAM should be enough. Which i7 is one of the better versions? What is GPU and do I need it? I would like to stay around the $2000-$2400 range. Please, opinions and suggestions will be greatly appreciated.
 
i7 8700K
gtx 1070 or latest equivalent
800 watt PS
16 gb ddr4 ram
(be sure MB has M.2 slots)
 
i would go with an intel 8700k, not because i own one but because the 9900k has thermal issues by what i have read, you can get a 8700k with a nice z390 board for 600.00 usd. get a 750w psu evga for about 75.00. i would buy an rtx 1660ti with 6gb of ddr4 vram. match all that with 16-32 gb of system ram and thats a great build.i mentioned the rtx series because it the newer technology. trainz doesn't support the new tech from the rtx cards. you could still get a gtx 1080ti new for 500-600 and has the same performance as the rtx 2080 with 11gb of vram.that would fit in your 2,000 budget. get a nice case these days for 80 bucks and under.just my thoughts.
 
Start here: https://www.videocardbenchmark.net/gpu_list.php TS19 is very heavily GPU dependent. You want something with at least 10,000 score. For full sliders I'd suggest 14,000 say an RTX 2070. At the moment I don't really know if TS19 is better on RTX or GTX, I suspect RTX will be come more useful over time. Price wise I might look at Dell with a RTX 2070 they are well thought out for cooling and these machines are sneaking into the mainstream these days. Basically the CPU is sort of irrelevant. Yes an i7 is nice but a xeon might be cheaper and if you have a separate video card there is little point in paying for the intel integrated graphics. I'm sure there will be lots of suggestions and you'll need time to sort through them. Cheerio John
 
Start here: https://www.videocardbenchmark.net/gpu_list.php TS19 is very heavily GPU dependent. You want something with at least 10,000 score. For full sliders I'd suggest 14,000 say an RTX 2070. At the moment I don't really know if TS19 is better on RTX or GTX, I suspect RTX will be come more useful over time. Price wise I might look at Dell with a RTX 2070 they are well thought out for cooling and these machines are sneaking into the mainstream these days. Basically the CPU is sort of irrelevant. Yes an i7 is nice but a xeon might be cheaper and if you have a separate video card there is little point in paying for the intel integrated graphics. I'm sure there will be lots of suggestions and you'll need time to sort through them. Cheerio John
the 1080ti right now is still much faster than the rtx 2070, very few games support the tech and it's unlikely trainz ever will over the next 5 years.
 
Basically the CPU is sort of irrelevant. Yes an i7 is nice but a xeon might be cheaper and if you have a separate video card there is little point in paying for the intel integrated graphics. I'm sure there will be lots of suggestions and you'll need time to sort through them. Cheerio John


I only suggest paying for an Intel CPU because they are a known quantity, used by the majority of trainzers (most likely, I cannot back up this statement). I like to go with proven performers. True, you are buying an integrated graphics solution, but you may want to add a second monitor someday, and you won't need another graphics card.
 
I only suggest paying for an Intel CPU because they are a known quantity, used by the majority of trainzers (most likely, I cannot back up this statement). I like to go with proven performers. True, you are buying an integrated graphics solution, but you may want to add a second monitor someday, and you won't need another graphics card.
Xeons are made by Intel, they are the server line so don't have the integrated graphics but apart from being able to handle ECC memory they are more or less the same processor. Quite often a Xeon is considerably cheaper than the i7 equivalent. If you're feeling broke buy a refurbished Dell workstation with 16 gigs of memory in a tower case then stuff in a gigabyte 3 fan GPU. There is a max height of around 4.7 inches but otherwise they are fine. Dell Precision T3610 16 gigs 6 core xeon cat A is $800 this afternoon. www.dellrefurbished.com you need win 10 but there are still ways to get it for free. Intel make a very good optimizing compiler which is optimized for Intel chips but these days I think many people use the Microsoft environment. Cheerio John
 
These days I'd always go for a Xeon since they are made under higher quality control standards and just plain work better. Ex-lease enterprise computers are made to much higher standards than anything purchased down the high street and they can be purchased for a lot less money.
 
Yes, sorry, Xeon are made by Intel. But they use a different socket, are generally more expensive, the boards are different. CPU is generally not the bottleneck for gaming (if you buy the right one). See https://www.gamingscan.com/intel-xeon-for-gaming-worth-it/ for an analysis. However, you might be able to pick a loaded system cheap used, so no answer is absolute.
(Sometimes used ram is actually cheaper due to low demand).
 
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There's no need to buy a Xeon machine or processor new when there are plenty of good second hand ones available for very reasonable money. That article you linked to pitkin has a real downer on Xeons and certainly doesn't give the whole picture. My present Xeon computer is the second one I've owned and the first one I purchased has been claimed by my very tech-savvy daughter and it's still working fine. Plainly you have to buy the right Xeon machine and some that are designed for complex scientific calculations are completely hopeless if you try and use them for anything else, but the average ex-corporate workstation quad core Xeon is perfectly fine for running Trainz and they are pretty much bombproof as well.
 
Yes, sorry, Xeon are made by Intel. But they use a different socket, are generally more expensive, the boards are different. CPU is generally not the bottleneck for gaming (if you buy the right one). See https://www.gamingscan.com/intel-xeon-for-gaming-worth-it/ for an analysis. However, you might be able to pick a loaded system cheap used, so no answer is absolute. (Sometimes used ram is actually cheaper due to low demand).
I'm lost. Trainz needs a CPU, a GPU, keyboard, mouse and monitor why does it make any difference what motherboard is used to Trainz or what socket is used? The pricing is different but the high end Gaming Intel i7 CPUs have been more expensive than the equivalent xeon processors. Both the i7 and the xeon cpus have extended caches so there really isn't much difference performance wise. XEONs range in price from $50 upwards on newegg.com certainly they need be no more expensive than an i7. The web site you linked to pushes gaming and doesn't look at the requirements first and really you need to start with the requirements. From your web site: >Im gaming on Xeon and it was worth it. Its older e3 1231 v3, which is performing like i7-4770 without iGPU. It was cheaper and it can run in regular desktop mobo In Trainz ideally you want big caches on the CPU just to get stuff in and out of the CPU. You want to spend the money on the GPU. So after that you need a good power supply, good cooling, and 16 gigs of memory. A four core XEON or i7 is sufficient for Trainz couple that with a big ugly GPU and you'll fly. The cheapest way in one of the off lease XEON workstations, they are very well built. New they cost around $2,000 and then you need to add in the video card etc. Cheerio John
 
Got some interesting Reconditioned Dell workstations at Dell UK now, 4 cores and 6 up to 3.5 Mhz with 16 GB upwards of DDR3 or 4 and USB3, SSD boot and a spinner 7 or 8.1 pro. Around £750 ish

What that article is saying or should be saying is that a new xenon is too expensive for gaming, not that it won't work well which the author never said anyway.
 
If you start talking used, then comparisons are all over the place. The original poster stated that he was going to have a system built for him. This implies new hardware, which I doubt a Xeon system will be cheaper than an Intel socket 1150 based motherboard. But to each his own.

It is not certain that an off-lease workstation will have M.2 slots either. Which in my opinion is becoming a high want to a must.
 
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A four core XEON or i7 is sufficient for Trainz couple that with a big ugly GPU and you'll fly. The cheapest way in one of the off lease XEON workstations, they are very well built. New they cost around $2,000 and then you need to add in the video card etc. Cheerio John


I have loaded my 4 core I5 100% on all cores, and no where near full sliders. That's why I went to a 6 core/12 thread I7. Just my experience.
 
I have loaded my 4 core I5 100% on all cores, and no where near full sliders. That's why I went to a 6 core/12 thread I7. Just my experience.

and perhaps not understanding where the bottlenecks are. JTCitron ran some tests with TANE / TS12 the cpu ran cooler and the GPU ran warmer. TS19 same sort of thing. Your i5 was unlikely to be the bottleneck it was probably the GPU which is why I suggested looking at the GPU ratings using the list that N3V put out on the recent survey. If you wish to you can use perfmon to monitor the CPU and the GPU and I think you'll find it doesn't use anywhere near 100% of your CPU especially in driver. Spreading the workload over different cores is hard work programming so when running driver I'd expect one core to be running the operating system, one the scripts and one feeding the GPU. I wouldn't expect to see much activity on the other nine cores.

The OP was talking in terms of a GTX 1060 3 gigs for the GPU and expecting full sliders. It all depends on the content but I think that is unrealistic you need a beefier GPU than that. XEONs come in a wide range,the top of the line ones are very expensive, but a new 4 or 6 core version which is the equivalent of the i7 can be cheaper than a new i7. You need to do your homework.

https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu_list.php pick an i7 and find its score now find the nearest XEON and look up the price on Newegg.com. There really are people who have brought XEONs because they are cheaper than the equivalent i7s. Realistically a quad i7 or Xeon should do fine for Trainz although I confess to having a 6 core one.I can't remember if its hyperthreaded or not.

Cheerio John
 
and perhaps not understanding where the bottlenecks are. JTCitron ran some tests with TANE / TS12 the cpu ran cooler and the GPU ran warmer. TS19 same sort of thing. Your i5 was unlikely to be the bottleneck it was probably the GPU which is why I suggested looking at the GPU ratings using the list that N3V put out on the recent survey.

Cheerio John


I was using a 1070 Ti. Anyway, I never said the I5 was the bottleneck, I just said the cores were fully loaded. I personally advise someone building a rig to plan some overhead for the future. I think an I5 (unthreaded) would be a mistake. It also depends on how you use your Trainz, and the size of your monitor. If you are switching in a yard, no problem. If you are zoomed way out and rapidly changing your point of view, I can get 100% load on my former I5.

Anyway, I am bowing out of the discussion based on my purported lack of understanding. My system quacks like a duck, and walks like a duck, so it is a duck as far as I am concerned. Others can raise their own ducks.

I7 8700 K
Z370
800 watt EVGA ps
16 gb ddr4
1070 Ti EVGA
500 GB PCIe SSD M.2
several hard drives
 
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I'm lost. Trainz needs a CPU, a GPU, keyboard, mouse and monitor why does it make any difference what motherboard is used to Trainz ......... Cheerio John

Its important because after spending all that cash on top end component you don't want to throw some of it away on a low performance motherboard. The motherboard chip-set determines what the MB is capable of, what can and cannot be plugged into it and/or connected to it, including for example the speed and quantity the RAM. The majority of MB supporting a given CPU are probably available with 2-3 different chip-set and at a price, a performance difference of 3-10%.

Regarding the original question if you are not building tomorrow and are currently in the saving the money phase of the purchase, AMD are expected to launch its next range of CPU's/GPU's by the end of May 19 and if the hype is any indication may just give Intel/Navidia some competition. Peter
 
Its important because after spending all that cash on top end component you don't want to throw some of it away on a low performance motherboard. The motherboard chip-set determines what the MB is capable of, what can and cannot be plugged into it and/or connected to it, including for example the speed and quantity the RAM. The majority of MB supporting a given CPU are probably available with 2-3 different chip-set and at a price, a performance difference of 3-10%.

Regarding the original question if you are not building tomorrow and are currently in the saving the money phase of the purchase, AMD are expected to launch its next range of CPU's/GPU's by the end of May 19 and if the hype is any indication may just give Intel/Navidia some competition. Peter

If you read the thread the motherboard question comes up because it was noted that XEONs use a different type of socket but I don't think Trainz really cares about which socket type is used other than the transfer speed across the socket which is getting a bit esoteric. They use a range of sockets, I tend to stay with a reasonable quality motherboard such as ASUS, Intel, or whatever Dell are using since their commercial aimed products are aimed at reliability and I agree with you about memory etc.

I'd also agree about waiting for the new AMD products to appear, it will drive down the price of the other offerings but nVidia have a support program that helps companies such as N3V get the most out of their GPUs so for Trainz I'd go nVidia on the GPU.

Cheerio John
 
Its important because after spending all that cash on top end component you don't want to throw some of it away on a low performance motherboard. The motherboard chip-set determines what the MB is capable of, what can and cannot be plugged into it and/or connected to it, including for example the speed and quantity the RAM. The majority of MB supporting a given CPU are probably available with 2-3 different chip-set and at a price, a performance difference of 3-10%.

Regarding the original question if you are not building tomorrow and are currently in the saving the money phase of the purchase, AMD are expected to launch its next range of CPU's/GPU's by the end of May 19 and if the hype is any indication may just give Intel/Navidia some competition. Peter

AMD are already providing Intel with serious competition with the Ryzen CPUs, both first and second generation, third is going to get interesting.

I bought a Ryzen motherboard bundle, Ryzen 5 1600 / Asus Prime B350 Plus which was heavily reduced in a closing down sale (75% off) just to see what they were like, It actually out performs my i7 6700K on multicore Benchmarks and is pretty close on single core which was a surprise, coupled with the GTX980TI (from Main PC upgraded to 1080TI) It is not far off the i7 / 1080TI performance in TANE / TRS19.

Motherboards? I tend to stick to mid range Asus boards however any from Asus, Gigabyte or MSI should be fine as they tend to use higher quality components across the range.

Xeons require a different socket on the motherboard and probably ECC memory, new looking at £500 upwards just for the Motherboard, for an unthreaded 4 core Xenon around £200 new.

An i5 8600K 6 core unthreaded is around the same price. Motherboard around £250 for a top range Asus, depending on where you look.

Note I've never used AMD GPUs with AMD CPUs, Nvidia work well with AMD.
 
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