Britain's "Lost" Railways?

It appears that Hong Kong business will make profit from one of Britains busiest networks:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business...uth-west-trains-contract-20-years-firstgroup/

Rob.

Hi everybody.
I cannot see a problem with this change of franchise ownership as the joint finance operation will be 70% First Group funded and only 30% coming by way of the Hong Kong-based MTR Corporation. First group have had ownership of the Great Western Mainline franchise for a considerable number of years, now running under the name of GWR. As someone who travels regularly on the GWML I would have to say that First Group have provided an excellent service often under difficult conditions. The foregoing is especially prevalent as in the last few years Network Rail have given the company continuous problems with the so-called "electrification​" debacle of the line.

In the above, it would seem to me that it matters little who owns the franchise or where the profits go, what matters is the service that is provided to the regular commuters and in that first group and MTR would seem (in my humble opinion) to be an excellent choice. First group and MTR in its takeover of the franchise may well be able to provide better services between Taunton, Weston-super-Mare and Bristol Temple Meads to London Waterloo​ routing via Salisbury. The foregoing may well help in relieving overcrowding pressure on the Great Western Mainline out of Bristol

First Group through its extensive rail operations in the far south-west (Penzance to Exeter) may well also be able to improve services between Exeter and London Waterloo for it has to be faced that under Stagecoach (using the name Southwest Trains) services could hardly be worse via that route Therefore, there can only be the prospect of improvement all round for rail commuters in the West Country by this change in franchise ownership. The foregoing will hopefully bring forward better economic prosperity for the region by way of improved transport and economic links with the capital.

Bill

Think you are spot on there Bill as to not being bogged down by who or what runs a rail service here and the main aim is to be well into the continuing growth of the railways here.

I wonder if, just as they renamed the present franchise GWR they will re-christen SouthWest Trains as LSWR and perhaps use the old London and South Western Railway livery. Oh well, just a nostalgic thought.

Hi everybody.

teddytoot said:

I wonder if, just as they renamed the present franchise GWR they will re-christen SouthWest Trains as LSWR and perhaps use the old London and South Western Railway livery. Oh well, just a nostalgic thought.

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Teddyfoot, in all seriousness, i believe your suggestion on the naming of the new train operating company is distinctly possible. My consideration would be that it will either be LSWR or a continuation of GWR.

We will have to wait and see, but interesting while we do.:mop:
Bill

From 1923 it became part of SR in green livery it ran through Exeter to north devon.

Hi stagecoach and everybody

stagecoach said:

From 1923 it became part of SR in green livery it ran through Exeter to north devon.

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Stagecoach, i believe that SR was the abreviated logo for Southern Region. With all that has happened on the Southern franchise in recent months i cannot think that any rail operator would wish to have SOUTHERN as any part of a new logo.

I can remember when Southern Region trains ran through to Ilfracombe and i think Bideford via Barnstaple. I was in North Devon the week the last train ran on the closure of the line. There was not much remorse by the local population in regard to the closure as it was the car that at that time was seen as bringing the holiday makers in great numbers to North Devon.

Bill

SR was an abbreviation for the Southern Railway as can be found in pre 1947 books.

Pleased to see there are people on here who appear quite happy to pay some of the highest fares in the world to subside the state railways of France, Holland, Germany and now China. Truly, the British must be the most generous people on earth. Or the most stupid!

Paul

Well constructively interesting is that each year more travel on the railways than the predecessor,, British Rail (!).

Hi everybody.

Paulsw2 said:

Pleased to see there are people on here who appear quite happy to pay some of the highest fares in the world to subside the state railways of France, Holland, Germany and now China. Truly, the British must be the most generous people on earth. Or the most stupid!
Paul

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So, British rail commuters are possibly "stupid" for not caring who owns the train operating companies which they travel on. As many commuters have little alternative but to use the railways for their daily commute (especially in the south of England), then it should not come as unexpected that what those commuters most care about is the service they receive from the train operating companies by way of punctuality, the cleanliness of trains they travel on, and expectation that they will get a seat on those trains.

In the above, there is gross overcrowding on many rail services within the British rail network again especially in the south of England due to the economic growth of the country combined with the rising population. Therefore, no one regularly travels on Britain's railways unless there is little or no alternative.

Some make those journeys on Britain's railways regularly do so for the benefit of the businesses they own or work for, so as to meet customers and secure business transactions.

Some make those journeys on Britain's railways regularly do so to maintain their employment and in doing that support themselves and their families

Some who make those journeys on Britain's railways regularly do so to meet hospital appointments or attend treatments so as to support their lives for as long as possible into the future.

In the above, there are on a daily basis many other reasons why British people regularly travel on the railways. As those people travel about their daily business it is little concern to them who owns the train operating company that is providing their travel or where the profits (or losses) from the ticket price they pay is destined for or to. In the foregoing, it is not "stupid" that those people do not concern themselves with who owns the train operating company, for they have their daily lives to support and get on with, and without doubt consider rightly that it is for others to concern themselves with all aspects of rail ownership.

Of course, there are those who believe that the whole British rail network should be brought once again into the utopian days of nationalisation. However, those who believe the foregoing conveniently forget that a nationalised British rail network had more than 45 years to bring forward those hessian days so longed for and believed in by the "disciples of nationalisation" but never could. Those of us who remember railway rationalisation will also remember the wholesale incompetence, dirt, grime and waste that went with that government ownership.

For those who wish to see an example of a nationalised organisation at work need look no further than Network Rail. The foregoing organisation has time and time again wasted billions in tax payers money on various modernisations and upgrades to the network always with huge cost overrun. Their latest triumph is the electrification of the Great Western Mainline in which 3 billion pounds of taxpayers money has been spent by way of incompetence and waste on a project that Network Rail now declare they will be unable to finish.

Therefore, if there is any "stupidity" surrounding the operations of the British rail network it is undoubtedly among those who believe that any nationalisation would bring about a utopian cure to the problems that do undoubtedly exist. However, rail history clearly demonstrates that those problems would not be solved by government ownership of the network, and in all likelihood would be made worse.

Bill

many years ago well great number of years now I worked for a short time on BR and to be frank I was not that impressed. Inefficiency, getting away with things were kind of routine. For a long time when the use of porters was going out into history I can still recall groups of them standing about the Glasgow central station blethering or smoking. Ok a passing thing but rail travel in some areas was no longr a fashion as more cars appeared in places. Although a life long railway fan I knew tht at the time of the Beechig drastic cuts there were lines in my part of the country that were dead and stations just a hang over from the past. Okay in later years there would be population moves and up here we have had re-openings but the two main political legions were as bad as each other! One government did the closings and the other loudly protested and said they would bring them back when they got into power and what did they do in practice? Sod all!

As modern rail has surged upwards and still climbing in vast passenger numbers it is an effort to adapt to a different world and way of doing things. Yet for all the human faults the modernisation and improvements have been under private control not the bloated government side that has been put well into history in other areas and industry. Too many people just try to think of BR being cosy and a sad loss but I don't.

Hi Robbie and everyone.

rjhowie said:

many years ago well great number of years now I worked for a short time on BR and to be frank I was not that impressed. Inefficiency, getting away with things were kind of routine. For a long time when the use of porters was going out into history I can still recall groups of them standing about the Glasgow central station blethering or smoking. Ok a passing thing but rail travel in some areas was no longr a fashion as more cars appeared in places. Although a life long railway fan I knew tht at the time of the Beechig drastic cuts there were lines in my part of the country that were dead and stations just a hang over from the past. Okay in later years there would be population moves and up here we have had re-openings but the two main political legions were as bad as each other! One government did the closings and the other loudly protested and said they would bring them back when they got into power and what did they do in practice? Sod all!

As modern rail has surged upwards and still climbing in vast passenger numbers it is an effort to adapt to a different world and way of doing things. Yet for all the human faults the modernisation and improvements have been under private control not the bloated government side that has been put well into history in other areas and industry. Too many people just try to think of BR being cosy and a sad loss but I don't.

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Robbie, I believe your above post states everything in regard to the running of the Britain's railways under nationalisation and also the necessity of the large-scale cuts to the rail infrastructure that were planned and carried out by Dr Beeching. I was in my teens at the time the Beeching report was released. Like many families several of my relatives worked within the rail industry when the report was released, but there was a general acceptance throughout the country and even amongst them that the railway could not continue in the way that it was structured at that time, and that change had to come.

I was looking recently at a pre-face to a book written in regard to the Beeching axe of the railway infrastructure during the 1960s which described the foregoing cuts as a "wanton act of government vandalism". For those of us who remember those days, then our memories will recall that nothing could be further from the truth. For in carrying out those cuts Dr Beeching saved the mainline infrastructure of Britain's railways and in that act brought forward the railways we have today which are once again central to Britain's overall transport network.

In the foregoing, it is also forgotten that many within the British government at that time wished to see much harsher cuts to the railway system and demanded that Dr Beeching bring forward a second report detailing yet more closures. On being faced with those demands Dr Beeching resigned his position ensuring that no further reduction in the size of Britain's railways would be carried out.

In your above posting Robbie you are also quite correct in advising on the level of productivity among Britain's nationalised railway workers for the time period from the early 1950s until the late 1970s. Many stories abounded as to the "quiet life" that almost all railway workers seemed to enjoy at that time. There were also a great many standing jokes put about in regard to the foregoing situation. One joke I remember so well advised: -
How does a normal person obtain a regular income without working.
Answer one, you turn to crime.
Answer two, you gain employment with British Rail.:hehe:

Bill.

Haha. Last great point there!

Yep the staff standards under the government were an almost joke. It also happened elsewhere in stations and I know that I am afraid for a hard fact where staff got away with things. On the then freight side I was taken aback when I discovered that regularly a booklet went out to even local passenger stations asking if wagons in their dozens had been discovered as they were missing! In techy terms the government ran the railways but in local practice a different picture. It was also obvious that there were places overstaffed. The country has changed vastly since the government ran everything. Rail, ferry companies, bus companies Thos Cook (!), the alternative booking making system) airlines, power supplies, communication and so on.

Our population when I was at secondary school had been just under 50 million now passed 60 and forecast to be 70 million and stil go up. All this on a wee island?! The modernisation and control of rail has moved in the right direction and the constantly increasing number of passengers a challenge but we will se a future. There is only one home nation that has a State railway with no Network Rail but in a slightly more unique situation but apart from that corner there is a determination that the progress from British rail will continue and the passenger growth continue.

Just came across another possible railway return in Scotland Bill!

Several years ago passenger services were brought back after decades from Stirling as far as Alloa. Beyond that the line meandered through rural Fife and used for goods and joined the Fife Circle and line northeast at Dunfermline Town. The track is still there and as the freight side is history the Scottish Government (hooray for a change!) is looking at the possibility of brining the passenger side back and stations along the way. Will be interesting tosee if anything comes of thi further re-opening possibility.