Your paid for software?

Zapata935, I am puzzled by your post.

Zapata935 said:
A hobby gives you relief from the everyday grind of modern life.
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I agree that hobbies have an enormous therapeutic value and should be encouraged - heck, when I was working full time Trainz was a great stress reliever for me.

Zapata935 said:
It should not involve shedding out large amounts of money!
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An noble idea but it depends on your hobby. Even stamp collecting has its costs and as for restoring "classic" cars .....

I am not sure if you are having a go at N3V here. I estimated how much I have spent on Trainz over the years (buying each new version as it came out, contributing to Kickstarter, DLC purchases, FCT) and compared that with how much my partner has spent on gardening (her hobby) over the same period (new plants, mulch, gardening equipment, mowing costs, etc) and Trainz has come out the cheaper of the two. In both cases I ignored the labour costs since both are "hobbies".

Zapata935 said:
I just wish people would wake up and realise they are being exploited by morons!
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Which "morons" are you referring to?
 
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Generally, determining whether an activity is a business or a hobby is if it is an activity engaged in for profit or not. Nowhere does it stipulate what you spend on the activity. They can be as inexpensive or expensive as you decide.

If you're upset that you've spend too much on this hobby, blame the person in the mirror. You can always build castles in the air and create the most expansive imaginary routes, both really cheap activities.
 
Zapata935 said:
A hobby gives you relief from the everyday grind of modern life. It should not involve shedding out large amounts of money! It's about an interest outside of work! It is what takes you away from idiots an As****les of this world, who are determined to turn you into a wage slave! I just wish people would wake up and realise they are being exploited by morons!
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No one is forcing you to buy anything, and in this day and age it's hard to find anything that is COMPLETELY free.
 
Zapata935 said:
I just wish people would wake up and realise they are being exploited by morons!
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The people whom I believe are being exploited by their "hobby" are the ones who download and play those "free" mobile phone games. The ones where if you want extra weapons, better abilities, more levels, or even feed the "cute little critters", you have to pay.

At least with Trainz, you have a good idea of what the total outlay will be and if you don't want to use assets from the DLC, then you don't have to.
 
Hi Shane, why do other big software companies like Bethesda who throw out plug-ins and add-on's gratis, go from strength to strength? the reason is trust in loyalty! Auran went bust and N3V look like they are going the same way because they spend all their profits on solicitors and legal fees trying to protect revenue! A rabbit trying to stick it's head up it's own whatsit!
 
I'd be interested so see where the evidence on them spending profits on legal fees etc are, as I haven't seen any so far. The DRM in later versions is different.

Shane
 
Oh dear, you are confused, I have said all along that studio, professional software should be paid for, I support that point to the hilt. What you are confused about is having to pay for sub-standard, low quality stuff done on Joe's PC. Why do you think the servers are choked down to snail pace? make you want to buy a FCT? Wake up, for christ sake!
 
Sounds like you may be getting confused a bit as well. The reason they sell FCTs is to help pay for the costs of hosting which for the size of the Download Station cannot be cheap.

Shane
 
Let there be no confusion: I still have no seen any of that proof about "they spend all their profits on solicitors and legal fees".
 
I really don't know what your issue is here.

The software its self is never purchased anywhere; the end-user is buying the rights or license to use it on their computer. This is the same whether it's N3V's Trainz series, Microsoft Windows or Office, or even stuff by Adobe, Autodesk, and so on. The next time you install your programs you may want to spend the time reading the EULA or End User License Agreement. Most of these are enforceable, by the way in court.

Regarding the DLS and First Class Tickets. N3V has clearly stated here that the cost of the a First Class Ticket (FCT) goes to defray the costs and upkeep of the servers which host the DLS and all its contents. This also goes to cover a big portion of the cost for the number of non-ticket holders who use the server. Keep in mind that this is quite an expensive operation. I've done corporate hosting before and for this small company this ran into the many $1,000 USD per month for a simple FTP-type service.

So before you make more of nothing, I suggest you think a bit harder before you type.

John
 
Zapata935 said:
...I have said all along that studio, professional software should be paid for, I support that point to the hilt. What you are confused about is having to pay for sub-standard, low quality stuff done on Joe's PC.
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While I grant you that some of the DLS content is sub-standard and low quality, a lot of it is not. The superior standard and high quality trees by Mcguirel or Clem1952, just to give two examples from the many available on the DLS, which is free.

I must assume, then, that the "sub-standard, low quality stuff" you are referring to is on the DLC or on third party payware sites. I have purchased some content from the DLC (but never from third party sites) and have never had any complaints about its quality. Perhaps I have just been lucky in only selecting the content that did not originate on "Joe's computer".

I also assume that you believe that the Trainz market is large enough to tempt large professional studios to spend money and resources developing lots of high quality content that, of course, must be paid for. Because this is obviously a false assumption, we are relying heavily on the computers owned by Mcguirel, S301 and other "Joes" who make content for the DLC and payware.

One of the strengths of the Trainz community is that members of the community contribute to its operation, and not always for financial reward.

If you don't like this way of doing things then you do not have to play or pay.
 
Ok, let's start over, sorry mate, I owe you that. Bethesda have at least 30 high speed servers all over the world. Maybe I have been spoilt by them handing out plug-ins, script extenders, bash software! But it comes back in artistic form, young talented people from all over the world! China, Russia, Korea, wanting to display their talent. You know and I know when a studio releases a product that they are already three quarters into building their next product. I seem to be cursed with an interest in trains. I just wish N3V would let go the anal retention and start trusting a fan base of modders and not trying to see them as possible vialators of software copyright. I think you know how passionate I am about encouraging people to get involved in modding stuff. I want to see trains grow and thrive, not go down like the last lot did! Best wishes.
 
Zapata935 said:
JC you are full of balony, my friend!
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He's not, you just don't understand the concept of software licensing. I assure you he's correct.

What has Bethesdas model of operation got anything to do with the topic at hand here? We're not being restricted in what content we produce, it's just the platform we have is difficult to work with.

Jack
 
Some people over quote, filling the message with a total repeat of another message. And then there is this
Zapata935 said:
I see you have the word Android on your time line? looks and sounds familiar!
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since many have that, who are you referring to and what is it you mean?

Speaking of meaning, can someone translate what the point of this thread was? As entertaining as it has been, it has seems to have derailed quite a ways back.
 
Zapata935 said:
JC you are full of balony, my friend!
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Meaning?

I worked in the industry for close to 30-years - actually 35 total with 5-plus in hardware alone and the remaining in technical support, IT management and support, and MIS. While in the IT management side, I dealt with licensing and these can get quite complicated with more complex rules for corporations than individuals as licenses can and do expire. In the corporate world, this can lead to legal proceedings against companies if the licensee is caught using the software out of terms. In some cases, the software just stops working, which can wreak havoc if this is an important application. Most of the time, however, the software company contacts its customers on an annual bases for license renewals because renewed licenses can mean a steady revenue stream. A company such as Oracle, my last employer, sold thousands of licenses worldwide and this represents a large sum to them.

If you want to see more about a EULA, check the web.

Here's some generic example though the information is US-oriented, which has been pointed out by the note, this is general terminology.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/End-user_license_agreement

and here:

http://www.eula.com.au/

The majority state that we do not own the software, but only the media it was issued on. They also state that we only purchased the right to use the software and the owning company can and will terminate the license at any time should a breach of the licensing terms be discovered. They can and have brought legal proceedings against individuals and organizations that breach EULA terms.

See 3.3...
http://www.vmware.com/download/eula/universal_eula

So the next time you install your programs, read the EULA. You might think different on this subject.
 
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