You Are What You Write

[wholbr]

Hi Everybody.
Just to bring the thread back on topic, with jobs in most parts of the Western world in short supply, people who are without the ability to express their thoughts reasonably through grammar and spelling debar themselves from many forms of employment.

Jobs in areas such as solicitor’s offices, the courts, health service administration, company personnel departments or any area of employment where concise reports have to be written is immediately out of their grasp.

I can understand in a world of everyday instant communication it is easy for people to believe that grammar, punctuation and spelling is not that important. As long as others basically understand what you are trying to say that is all that matters, or so many believe.

However, the foregoing everyday attitude to written communication then goes on to become normal, with the same lax approach in writing job applications and their curriculum vitae.

He few months ago we advertised for an office administrator for our business and received over 200 applications for the position. On inspection of all the applicants written submissions advising on why they would be the best person for the position, over a hundred and seventy were consigned to the waste bin on first inspection. The reasons for this where Simply on the grounds of spelling and grammar together with an inability to express in written form their various talents and abilities in a clearly understandable way.

In a job advertisement which clearly stated that the successful applicant will be required to type up clear unambiguous reports, writing an application for that job which included spelling mistakes and poor grammar was certainly one way to ensure that you would not get the employment. And yet in many cases you felt they simply did not know any different.

Bill

 

[robd]

Hi Everybody.
Just to bring the thread back on topic, with jobs in most parts of the Western world in short supply, people who are without the ability to express their thoughts reasonably through grammar and spelling debar themselves from many forms of employment.

Jobs in areas such as solicitor’s offices, the courts, health service administration, company personnel departments or any area of employment where concise reports have to be written is immediately out of their grasp.

I can understand in a world of everyday instant communication it is easy for people to believe that grammar, punctuation and spelling is not that important. As long as others basically understand what you are trying to say that is all that matters, or so many believe.

However, the foregoing everyday attitude to written communication then goes on to become normal, with the same lax approach in writing job applications and their curriculum vitae.

He few months ago we advertised for an office administrator for our business and received over 200 applications for the position. On inspection of all the applicants written submissions advising on why they would be the best person for the position, over a hundred and seventy were consigned to the waste bin on first inspection. The reasons for this where Simply on the grounds of spelling and grammar together with an inability to express in written form their various talents and abilities in a clearly understandable way.

In a job advertisement which clearly stated that the successful applicant will be required to type up clear unambiguous reports, writing an application for that job which included spelling mistakes and poor grammar was certainly one way to ensure that you would not get the employment. And yet in many cases you felt they simply did not know any different.

Bill

Bill, having read this I have come to the conclusion that you are, without any shadow of doubt, the master of perfect prose!

 

[dragonharh]

Wend All said and done if you can't read or spell with out error then your as good as a dead is't that right dave ? humens are sheep were one go's thay all go in a matter of speaking.

Thats about what this thard says form start to end.

 

[fran1]

Wend All said and done if you can't read or spell with out error then your as good as a dead is't that right dave ? humens are sheep were one go's thay all go in a matter of speaking.

Thats about what this thard says form start to end.

dragonharh,
You've missed the d out of builder in your banner.

 

[dragonharh]

Thanks its been fixed.

 

[Scottbe8]

Can you imagine if spelling mistakes made their way into the spoken language? Imagine how confused someone would be if their fast food cashier asked them, "Wood ewe like fires width tat?"

 

[johnwhelan]

Can you imagine if spelling mistakes made their way into the spoken language? Imagine how confused someone would be if their fast food cashier asked them, "Wood ewe like fires width tat?"

It's called dialect and the spoken word came first so the spelling followed the pronunciation of the spoken word. The really fun stuff is the ough words cough and bough that the French complain about arrived in written English from French scribes who came over in 1066.

Cheerio John

 

[Euphod]

Very well put. I wonder if the wackos that hate government have received any government money or assistance. I assume they stick to driving on dirt roads and avoid the government created Interstate highways. Goes back to being raised in a highly prejudiced household and then nurtured in a bad educational state run system where the curriculum enforces the stuff their backward parents taught them. They are probably good people but buried beneath a pile of ignorance.

You assume quite a bit in this post. Government is a necessary evil with certain defined responsibilities, and that's all well and good. While I wouldn't classify anyone who "hates government" as a 'wacko', there are some that are anarchists. I certainly wouldn't classify anyone who would prefer a smaller government as a 'wacko', as government has grown far past what it's responsibilities are. The educational system here has been inundated with money for the past decade or so, with little or no improvement to show for it. The 'backwards parents' who home school consistently produce better students. Ignorance can be defined as 'a lack of knowledge', so considering it is a negative value, I'm not sure how it could accumulate into a pile.

As far as the GI bill and taxes and government expenditures, those that benefited from the program earned those benefits; it was never and is not now an 'entitlement program'. What has been posted previously is tantamount to posting that "a study proved that paying wages to members of the armed forces was beneficial because if not our country could not have defended itself." In addition the defense of our nation is the greatest responsibility our federal government has.

Compare that fact to the Constitution, and then scour the same for the responsibilities of education oversight, food stamps, welfare, the EPA, healthcare, etc.

As to this thread Dave is merely stating that he refuses to engage members in posts or requests that are expressed in a language he doesn't understand. I agree with him, and that is why I stay out of the foreign language threads for the most part. Those threads actually are easier to decipher due to the availability of translation sites on the internet. As far as I know, there are no sites for translating poorly executed languages of any origin. I may take a little longer to try to figure out what a member is trying to express, but we all have our limits, and Dave has stated his.

Communication is an essential skill in any society.

 

[deadpoolmx55]

What did this thread have to do with trains again?

 

[RRSignal]

You assume quite a bit in this post. Government is a necessary evil with certain defined responsibilities, and that's all well and good. While I wouldn't classify anyone who "hates government" as a 'wacko', there are some that are anarchists.

His use of that term is rather ironic, actually, because, as a matter of history, excessively big government - and its supporters - have caused only mayhem, misery, and worse. Apropos to the subject at hand is an educational system that costs more and more as time goes on and produces ever-worsening results.

 

[sparky15]

How did teachers, with nothing more than a blackboard and text books, teach those who grew up to invent computers?

 

[jjanmarine3]

Wend All said and done if you can't read or spell with out error then your as good as a dead is't that right dave ? humens are sheep were one go's thay all go in a matter of speaking.

Thats about what this thard says form start to end.

Actually dragonharh I notice improvement in your spelling and grammar in general, so congrats.
I think there are just some people who just don't care to improve and it is those people who irritate others who care.

 

[mezzoprezzo]

What did this thread have to do with trains again?

http://www.flickr.com/photos/encarna/262751140/

 

[amigacooke]

How did teachers, with nothing more than a blackboard and text books, teach those who grew up to invent computers?

They taught them to think for themselves, a most valuable lesson.

 

[amigacooke]

Apropos to the subject at hand is an educational system that costs more and more as time goes on and produces ever-worsening results.

That statement makes the assumption that before the government education system came along, the USA was a land of universal literacy which has been in decline ever since. I think that unlikely.

Percentage of persons 14 years old and over who were illiterate (unable to read or write in any language), by race and nativity: 1870 to 1979

 

[peghorse]

Well I am half a century old and the sad level of literacy these days is unbereaveable. Yes you read that right.
I wont rue its when its gone cause ahh, I wont be here!
I must admit it is difficult to write by hand these days as most of what I do is typing and friends who are not native english speakers
are astounded by my typing speed and I only use four fingers. Well, thumbs + little fingers for space & caps so that's 6 really.
OI! o.0 yeah YOU! You callin me a receptionist?!? ^~ huh?!?

I suppose there is no love for language these days, as when would a younger person actually get to read a scintillating and absorbing
tale from a book for example? Content such as "I would like to be kept in the manner to which I have become accustomed" for example. brilliant stuff!
That you can keep a reader immersed & entertained is of how much value when no one wants to read anything other than... hmm.. 140 characters say?
As to the teacher satisfied with illiteracy I would say back to school with you pronto and on with that dunce cap!

Is such laziness due to the total abscence of corporal punishment in our learning institutions? (laughing pretty hard here).
In my youth.... umm..... huh..? oh yeah...:hehe: I actually received the strap for months & months because I was among the first to not write in cursive script.
I just couldn't do it nor see the sense in it when my printing was quite nice actually.

Sooo even though I was among the first to encourage the degradation of the written word, me's tinkin a return to total and absolute fear and intimidation
in our classrooms is the only way to rectify such reckless abandon of good and true standards of morality and civility.
Prolly the strap AND the cane together at once to make up for lost time:udrool: 40 years down the track and I still print so erm, you know, worked for me!
Kno wha ahm sayin? ^^
Kewl.
Get that inta yaz!
Buy Buy now :wave:

 

[bl4882]

How did teachers, with nothing more than a blackboard and text books, teach those who grew up to invent computers?

They did it with a ruler with which they would crack the knuckles of anyone who split an infinitive or dangled a participle. Or so the story goes. I remember Miss Larkin in sixth grade, but am not convinced that the language is worse today than in the past. But written language is a code, and unless we are on the same page, catastrophe could be the result.

For example: "ghtybwgf scbl;lm, doit6." A specimen of a typical modern text like I might get from one of my daughters. How would we feel if this were from the White House to the DOD and interpreted as "Detonate six thermonuclear devices over Andorra," rather than the intended message which was "Six Slurpees and a pizza, please."

We may not need to be fixated on it, but language matters. Grammar is a matter of everyone being on the same page so mistakes like that can't happen.

Bernie

 

[boleyd]

I will say again that highly prejudiced parents, who have little foundation for their non-main stream positions, begin the path to decline. Many who grew up in the 50s and 60s may have encountered it. Eventually the world is allowing the need for tolerance to bubble to the surface. Us older types have for the most part set aside the prejudices we saw in the past. Now despite that the parents in the old days were much more concerned with education than many today. Now schools churn graduates that are close to ill-literates. Some of the blame goes to government programs that paid money for high test scores and graduation rates. Parental apathy filled in the rest. As was said money is not the answer, and in today's distribution scheme it can be harmful.

If people would only move from their extreme positions, as some show here, they could rationally come together to solve educational issues that place us in 27th position. Hating government and advocating the elimination of the Educational Department is not a reasonable position. Advocating and offering suggestions for change is much more productive.

We are in a very unfortunate political situation today so that there is little chance of the extremists looking beyond their limited horizon. The politicians, talk radio, and some TV shows spew out the ridiculous propaganda to play to the extremists. They know that that saying they are on their side and they also hate ____ (fill in the blank) is enjoyed by the crowd. Big cheer from the crowd. We have seen them on TV. Talking heads on TV applaud or condemn the junk they spew. It is not the slimy politicians playing to the most base hatreds of the crowd it is the crowd themselves. Instead of rejecting the extreme hate and fear lies they embrace it. If they could just look beyond the stuff they were taught while growing up perhaps they could see a brighter world. But the propaganda machine is relentless. So long as they continue to applaud hatred, bigotry and in-tolerance there is little chance we will see a sufficient coalition to improve our schools. Moderation is a bad word in this poorly educated country - sad!

 

[bl4882]

It is possible, probable?, that I missed something, but I didn't see anything that advocated the death penalty for split infinitives. There is, however, an argument to be made for the ability to express a thought coherently. How in the Lord's name are we to know what a written conversation is about if we don't have agreed ways to decode what we write?

Bernie

 

[RRSignal]

I will say again that highly prejudiced parents, who have little foundation for their non-main stream positions, begin the path to decline. Many who grew up in the 50s and 60s may have encountered it. Eventually the world is allowing the need for tolerance to bubble to the surface. Us older types have for the most part set aside the prejudices we saw in the past.

No offense, but you really should look in the mirror before making that statement, especially in light of your previous post.

Now despite that the parents in the old days were much more concerned with education than many today. Now schools churn graduates that are close to ill-literates. Some of the blame goes to government programs that paid money for high test scores and graduation rates. Parental apathy filled in the rest. As was said money is not the answer, and in today's distribution scheme it can be harmful.

Agreed completely. Many of these folks want government/schools to assume their role of parent.

If people would only move from their extreme positions, as some show here, they could rationally come together to solve educational issues that place us in 27th position. Hating government and advocating the elimination of the Educational Department is not a reasonable position. Advocating and offering suggestions for change is much more productive.

And many have, of all sorts of belief systems for change with varying levels of government involvement. One thing most will agree upon is that the current system is unsatisfactory.

We are in a very unfortunate political situation today so that there is little chance of the extremists looking beyond their limited horizon. The politicians, talk radio, and some TV shows spew out the ridiculous propaganda to play to the extremists. They know that that saying they are on their side and they also hate ____ (fill in the blank) is enjoyed by the crowd. Big cheer from the crowd. We have seen them on TV. Talking heads on TV applaud or condemn the junk they spew. It is not the slimy politicians playing to the most base hatreds of the crowd it is the crowd themselves. Instead of rejecting the extreme hate and fear lies they embrace it. If they could just look beyond the stuff they were taught while growing up perhaps they could see a brighter world. But the propaganda machine is relentless. So long as they continue to applaud hatred, bigotry and in-tolerance there is little chance we will see a sufficient coalition to improve our schools. Moderation is a bad word in this poorly educated country - sad!

Please, please look in the mirror and try to reconcile this with your "wacko" generalization earlier...just sayin'.