kmothersil
New member
What was the name of that movie anyway?
Will a Big Boy ever be returned to service
- Thread starter gtasa
- Start date
perry_weekley
New member
It's sorta funny. We have all these steam engines for movies yet the Big Boy can't make a come back in any sort of form. It would be nice if we could get a Big Boy back in operation, but I have a bet saying environmentalist would throw a hissy fit before we could get started.
kmothersil
New member
Well that's the reason why i suggested they rebuilt the whole engine from scratch and modify it like they did with that Uk engine. Even though I have doubts that may work.
I don't think it ever got that far as to get a name. On their website it says it was going to follow the engine as it made its way from Texas to Canada and that's about it.
I remember this! It was going to be about some kid who saved the Big Boy from the scrap heap and ran her all the way to Canada.
Good times, good times...
Fluffinator
New member
Well... You could rebuild a big boy. I recently went out west and rode on the Grand Canyon's 2-8-2 Berkshire steam engine, and it ran on vegetable oil. If you did rebuild the big boy, then you could modify it to run off of vegetable oil. It at least get the environmental nut jobs off your back. It would still cost a lot to even rebuild it though... only time will tell
well you cant burn bunker C in ANY LOCOMOTIVE mount Rainer senic railroad burned some bunker C in the boiler of #5 (Shes a oil burner) and the next thing you know we have a fireman laying on the ground black from smoke (5 didnt blow up she coughed hard). The reason? airforce bunker C :/. SO oilburners, oil converted engines, cant burn bunker c its to mellowish
You don't need to modify anything, an engine built to Burn Bunker C (No. 6 fuel oil) will run on Vegetable oil, motor oil, or just about any other oil (even diesel fuel, ironically...I've seen it done) staight out of the box.
As for the idea that "A Big Boy can't run on fuel oil" that's not true. that theory is based off the attempted conversion of Big Boy 4005 to burn oil, but the catch-22 of that was the engines were terrible steamers back then. Their stacks didn't seal properly and they were lackluster burners anyway. After they had new Exhaust Nozzles put in, and the barrier in the front of the firebox to pile coal in behind, they became terrific runners. coal combusted completely in midair in the firebox, and the stack sealed so well and created such a draft that shovels were sucked out of the fireman's hands into the firebox. With the modificationd done to the engines later in life, they could be run on oil.
I see no situation other than, some very rich individual deciding to become a somewhat rich individual, where a Bigboy is made operational. UP will never do it. They have a large articulated in the Challenger and for a private group to do it just wouldn't make economic sense. I just don't think they could make enough money from running it to pay for upkeep and repairs and save enough for the boiler rebuild after 15 year cert is up. Just to big to make any economic sense.
Although I think it would be easier to bring back the US's F-14 Tomcats to service than bring back a Big Boy ( no offense). BRING BACK THE F-14 AND THE SR-71! Just letting you know, Vulcan on the DLS has a F-14 available.I would love to see a Big Boy run again.At least it's easier to bring back a steam locomotive than it is,to bring back a Lockheed SR-71 Blackbird or the Spruce Goose.Which is a shame,because i love airplanes,just as much as trains.
But I do have to agree with mikeman, UP would most likely not bring back a Big Boy. I would cost even more than the Challenger to maintain, it would have more stuff to lubricate, and also it could only turn on a turntable in two places on UP!
Also "According to many sources, the UP is really not interested in running a coal-fired locomotive on their road any longer (the 3985 (4-6-6-4) was converted to oil in the late 1980's). Naturally, the next question one asks is "why not convert a Big Boy to burn oil?". This was tried back in the 1940s or 1950s on 4005 with a single burner, without success. It has been said that it is not feasible to fire a Big Boy with oil due to the nature of the firebox (which was designed for burning semi-bituminous coal from southern Wyoming) and boiler capacity. However, 3985 was converted to burn oil and its firebox is not all that different from that of the Big Boy's.
Steve Lee (head of UP's steam program) has also stated that it wouldn't make much sense for UP to restore a Big Boy, as there are only two places on the entire system that are large enough to turn a Big Boy, and those places are only a few miles apart. However, the Challenger is often turned using wyes which could also, almost certainly, handle a Big Boy.
Despite the obstacles of restoring and operating a Big Boy, with enough money, anything is possible."
So as you can see, there are many mixed opinions on the subject, but I partially believe that it could be done, but it would cost a lot of money and it would not be economical to restore and run a Big Boy in these times.
Quoted text courtesy of www.steamlocomotive.com.
I certainly agree you couldn't run a BigBoy on Bunker C but a gas generator (stationary jet engine) runs just fine on it and smoke free. The reason is the combustion temp and combustion conditions. Burning oil in a steam loco is done at atmospheric pressure (15 PSI) but in a gas generator the incoming air is compressed so the combustion temp is in the 2000 degrees F (and up) range and burning is cleaner and more efficient. If it does smoke you don't have this-n-that adjusted correctly. Nowdays modern gas generators are pretty much self adjusting using a DEEC (Digital Electronic Engine Control) which measures many many parameters and continuously adjust things for maximum efficency (and they ain't cheap). Bunker C stinks to high heaven before its burnt in a gas generator but not afterwards.
Veggie oil would work of course but think of all the french fries that it could have cooked instead, lol.
Ben
Veggie oil would work of course but think of all the french fries that it could have cooked instead, lol.
Ben
Good point. I think the most economical route would be to feed me all those chups (fries with a Scottish accent) for a few months and after I'd gained a couple of hundred pounds, I could go down to the local heritage line and help out. There you have it, a big boy in service... Ba boom Ching! : D
I do remember a rumor that air show pilot Dale Snodgrass wanted to keep a couple of Tomcats flying after retirement,but the US DoD wouldn't let him because of spare parts to Iran's F-14 fleet.
My parents actually saw Dale Snodgrass fly a F-14D Super Tomcat at an airshow, and they said it was the loudest aircraft they had ever seen fly. Also, I have seen and touched his F-14D at the Kalamazoo Air Zoo in Kalamazoo, MI. It could most likely be made flyable if you put some engines in it, but it would not be able to fly for long as the U.S. Government put a ban on manufacturing parts for the F-14's. In my opinion they should not have retired the F-14, no other aircraft could do it's job, before and after it had been retired. Oh, well. I am just glad that in all of the flying games they still have the F-14 available no matter what year it is.
All righty then, let's get back on topic.
All righty then, let's get back on topic.
That's cool,i only saw the tomcat twice in a distance flying.I wish i had a time machine to see both historic locomotives like the big boy and aircraft fly & run down the rail tracks.
Used Motor Oil. It works in the little 12 here at the Loop, although we don't use it anymore, last year it ran off used motor oil. The biggest problem is that it depends on the batch, sometimes you get a bad batch of oil, and it does not burn clean, and creates lots of soot and carbon buildup.
The biggest problem for a big boy is money and infrastructure. Considering it took over a million to restore the 614 back in the 70's. I can only imagine your talking at least a 3-5 Million dollar price tag.
The infrastructure is also a problem, when the big boy was built, sidings, double track curves, and even rails themselves all had to be upgraded to take the stress. Modern switches are built too sharp for a big boy, and the swing of the boiler would cause problems on double track curves (or even in yards). Logistical planning would be a nightmare, but would not necessarily prevent a successful operation if making money is not your goal.
I would give a testicle to be able to fire, or even pull the throttle on a Big Boy, Its one thing to fire a little narrow gauge 2-6-2, but a massive giant like that would be the thrill of a lifetime.
Now, about the oil conversion. One Big Boy was converted to oil in the 50's. 4005's conversion was unsuccessful for several reason that can easily be fixed today. Use the proper burner(s) in the engine, some burner designs are better then others. Use a good Damper Design. We had this problem on 12 post RailStar days, they built a crappy damper that did not let enough air into the firebox, and caused the fuel to sit unburned. Their solution was to overfire the engine to get the fuel to combust, but thats the wrong way of treating that problem. It may be they didn't have enough steam in the Atomizer, I don't know the specifics of the conversion (though I would like to) but perhaps a higher atomizer operating pressure would help.
The massive Cab Forwards operated off oil with no problems, even though the oil literally had to traverse the entire length of the engine to be burned. They actually had to pressurize the fuel bunker to get the oil into the firebox.
It can be done, easily. Modern technology (plus computers) make the conversion a little less like guess work, and a little more like science.