Why Cabooses? Mojave Sub, online, other places?

[helldiver]

So far all of the Mojave Sub sessions have cabooses on the trains.

As I do the sessions I notice the scenery, cars, companies, logos, locomotives are all built after the late 80's, there's even logos and stuff from the 90's and 2000s.

I went into all the Jointed Rail routes/sessions that came with Trainz 12 and removed the cabooses and replaced the engines.

So why do these trains have cabooses?

It's not just these scenarios, was also noticing some online videos of people putting cabooses on their trains, eventhough they are clearly running modern (post 1990's) road numbers and equipment.

Is there something about them I'm missing?

Are folks not aware that the Class 1's use FRED and similar devices? There's a torrent of reasons why cabooses aren't used anymore aside from safety.

 

[Ernest2d6]

Cabooses are fun. I add them to all my sessions I build.

 

[slabay]

You certainly can't ride on the porch of a FRED as the scenery goes by like you can on a caboose, now, can you?

 

[steamboateng]

Only folks I know of with a cabeese issue are management bean counters!!

 

[yutzk]

It's a matter of personal preference on whether you use the cabeese or not. Personally I havent touched the built in Mojave session myself ( and I work for the guys who made it lol) but rather I make up my own sessions with modern equipment without cabeese and anything else in there.

 

[norfolksouthern37]

So far all of the Mojave Sub sessions have cabooses on the trains.

As I do the sessions I notice the scenery, cars, companies, logos, locomotives are all built after the late 80's, there's even logos and stuff from the 90's and 2000s.

I went into all the Jointed Rail routes/sessions that came with Trainz 12 and removed the cabooses and replaced the engines.

So why do these trains have cabooses?

have you bothered to read some of the session info on Mojave? the route is set in the mid 80s to early 90s. most trains still had cabooses, and the equipment provided was of the era. the route also has period specific track (it doesn't look this way anymore).

It's not just these scenarios, was also noticing some online videos of people putting cabooses on their trains, eventhough they are clearly running modern (post 1990's) road numbers and equipment.

Is there something about them I'm missing?

Are folks not aware that the Class 1's use FRED and similar devices? There's a torrent of reasons why cabooses aren't used anymore aside from safety.

it would be naive to say that "cabooses aren't used anymore". their numbers are far less for sure, but you can still find them.

 

[cascaderailroad]

Look ---> http://www.stephenhornback.com/id67.html
I just love caboose's :hehe: Did you know that the caboose was one of the heaviest of cars, as they had @ 12" thick concrete floors, so as to keep them from whipping off the track, at high speeds.

 

[JohnnyC1]

The caboose is still used, but not in the intended traditional role, the terminology has changed, what was called a caboose are now called "shoving platforms." Shoving platforms are use on branch lines where a train has to make a long reverse move, kind of hard for the trainman to hold on to car's grab irons/steps for 10 miles. Not all shoving platforms resemble the traditional bay window or copula caboose. BNSF & NS are two RR's that use former caboose as shoving platforms.

John

 

[helldiver]

have you bothered to read some of the session info on Mojave? the route is set in the mid 80s to early 90s. most trains still had cabooses, and the equipment provided was of the era. the route also has period specific track (it doesn't look this way anymore).

it would be naive to say that "cabooses aren't used anymore". their numbers are far less for sure, but you can still find them.

Hrm, ok so you're taking issue with it. So I'll take issue with it also.

Bothered to read? I read all of them. I went back just now to double check. Unless something changed or unless they inform you much later in the scenario. I can post screenshots if you'd like. They give you an extremely brief synompsis. Did you mean the actual scenario pop ups? I re-read those as well. No information regarding dates on that.

I specifically checked for that when I first discovered the caboose (On the Bakersfield-Mojave run).

Also if -you- bothered to read my post, you'd have noticed that the call was made based on other Logos, Equipment, models, etc that you see throughout the route. Then again, could be that it got replaced/updated when I updated stuff. I can't say I still understand the Content manager thing. The first thing I did was replace the engines with locomotives from the jointed rail UP pack, kind of hoping JR can do the rest of the central valley.

I've lived in Fresno and Bakersfield since... 85-86, on my drives down to into Mojave down to Norco, any of those towns, I've never seen a caboose on those hauls. May have missed it in the late 80's, but I know I never saw one in the 90's. I've never seen one in the yards up here in Fresno. The only cabooses I've seen where display.
So I'll say it again; Cabooses aren't used anymore on those routes and for any majority on the Class 1s. Shortlines, Regionals, maybe, even then its a small number. If Cabooses are a very rare sight, then it would be appropriate to say "aren't used anymore". I'm not going to account for every possible exception to this rule on every possible shortline, regional, private, etc.. Or for other parts of the world for that matter. It would also be reasonable and support my statement if in the entire time I've lived here I've never seen a caboose at the end of any train.

Now check this; dunno whether you were trying to be hostile or condescending in your reply, but I was hardly trying to be when I made my post.

 

[Robert2d6]

Hrm, ok so you're taking issue with it. So I'll take issue with it also.

Bothered to read? I read all of them. I went back just now to double check. Unless something changed or unless they inform you much later in the scenario. I can post screenshots if you'd like. They give you an extremely brief synompsis. Did you mean the actual scenario pop ups? I re-read those as well. No information regarding dates on that.

I specifically checked for that when I first discovered the caboose (On the Bakersfield-Mojave run).

Also if -you- bothered to read my post, you'd have noticed that the call was made based on other Logos, Equipment, models, etc that you see throughout the route. Then again, could be that it got replaced/updated when I updated stuff. I can't say I still understand the Content manager thing. The first thing I did was replace the engines with locomotives from the jointed rail UP pack, kind of hoping JR can do the rest of the central valley.

I've lived in Fresno and Bakersfield since... 85-86, on my drives down to into Mojave down to Norco, any of those towns, I've never seen a caboose on those hauls. May have missed it in the late 80's, but I know I never saw one in the 90's. I've never seen one in the yards up here in Fresno. The only cabooses I've seen where display.
So I'll say it again; Cabooses aren't used anymore on those routes and for any majority on the Class 1s. Shortlines, Regionals, maybe, even then its a small number. If Cabooses are a very rare sight, then it would be appropriate to say "aren't used anymore". I'm not going to account for every possible exception to this rule on every possible shortline, regional, private, etc.. Or for other parts of the world for that matter. It would also be reasonable and support my statement if in the entire time I've lived here I've never seen a caboose at the end of any train.

Now check this; dunno whether you were trying to be hostile or condescending in your reply, but I was hardly trying to be when I made my post.

If you don't like a caboose, why not just uncouple it and leave it somewhere?

 

[Euphod]

The UP didn't start using FREDs until 1984, so one would imagine that previous to 1984 they used cabooses. I don't know about other lines.

 

[helldiver]

The UP didn't start using FREDs until 1984, so one would imagine that previous to 1984 they used cabooses. I don't know about other lines.

I'd imagine it would have been a gradual implementation.

Was also thinking of modifying my senarios to include additional engines between the train, similar to this:

Do the physics support it, or will I have coupler issues or something?


Oh and this is the Mojave route, 1990 (ATSF). Notice no caboose at 1:38
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WhLVA1l9_cA

Different date, possible mid 90's?. End of train at 5:42
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rq8k1hHMUBA

I noticed that if you look up "Cajon-Tehachapi '85 - Part" you will see that ATSF was using Cabooses on some trains and not on others. Even as early as '82 I noticed some videos had cabooses others didn't.

So I'm gonna guess that the Mojave sessions take place in the late 70's and maybe as late as '82? In the 1970's videos they all had cabooses. hehe

 

[Euphod]

The UP, by me, still runs a local with an old CNW bay window caboose. It's usually two yard switchers back to back, a few cars, and the caboose at the end. I don't think they use it as a handle, so I'm not sure why it's there, but it's a fairly common sight. Maybe it's so they don't have to keep moving the FRED around!

 

[jointedrail]

The cabeese are in there because we chose to model the 1985-1995 era, and at that time the caboose was still very much in use. We have not done any modern sessions or add-on packs for the Mojave yet, but if we do there will not be any of them in a modern session. The built in route was based on a time frame that was still using them so that's why they are there. If you choose not to use them you can simply remove them and save the session again so they won't be there the next time you run.

Thanks.

Mike

 

[helldiver]

Don't mean to derail, but any future plans to model the rest of the central valley? Particularly the UP yard?

I'd definately pick it up.

 

[JIb228]

Last I read, a few short lines still use caboose's. Even Montana Rail Link uses them in light of a FRED.

And why do I use them, and put them in my MP sessions?
Two reasons.
1. I want too, same reason why I'll use a steam locomotive to pull a cut of auto racks.
2. In the past on model layouts where I have operated we used a caboose to mark the end of a train. This was used to protect the rear of the train by having a light in it to keep the singles red until the last car, the caboose, was out of the block. Also if your train where to break in two, the block would stay red, and you would see that your missing your caboose, letting you know that your left part of your train in a tunnel some place.

 

[norfolksouthern37]

Hrm, ok so you're taking issue with it. So I'll take issue with it also.

Bothered to read? I read all of them. I went back just now to double check. Unless something changed or unless they inform you much later in the scenario. I can post screenshots if you'd like. They give you an extremely brief synompsis. Did you mean the actual scenario pop ups? I re-read those as well. No information regarding dates on that.

I specifically checked for that when I first discovered the caboose (On the Bakersfield-Mojave run).

Also if -you- bothered to read my post, you'd have noticed that the call was made based on other Logos, Equipment, models, etc that you see throughout the route. Then again, could be that it got replaced/updated when I updated stuff. I can't say I still understand the Content manager thing. The first thing I did was replace the engines with locomotives from the jointed rail UP pack, kind of hoping JR can do the rest of the central valley.

i did read your post yes, i will try to do better at quoting this time. i am not sure what you mean by other models and logos you see throughout the route. it was intentionally based on the 1985-1995 period. we included the track layout of the period ( i.e. the tracks and the signal systems of the period that existed then as opposed to now or previous eras), and the trains of the period. the latest locomotive included was built in 1990. the famous unit oil train was included (BKDOU), which ran from 1983 - 1997. everything points to being in that time period. if it was some other content along the route like a billboard or fast food joint it was either because no suitable replacement existed or it was minor background detail that really doesnt make a bit of difference in the scheme of things.

I've lived in Fresno and Bakersfield since... 85-86, on my drives down to into Mojave down to Norco, any of those towns, I've never seen a caboose on those hauls. May have missed it in the late 80's, but I know I never saw one in the 90's. I've never seen one in the yards up here in Fresno. The only cabooses I've seen where display.

while it may be true that you never saw one, that does not mean they were not there. SP did not stop using them completely until around 1994. you pointed out some videos of them absent, but there are also videos with them present.

So I'll say it again; Cabooses aren't used anymore on those routes...

maybe not on that route, but it wouldnt matter, its set in 1980s-early 90s period when they did use them. why the trouble with it? maybe having them is just FUN.

...and for any majority on the Class 1s.

but still used nonetheless. i know of some places you can find a caboose on a local every day on the mainline.

If Cabooses are a very rare sight, then it would be appropriate to say "aren't used anymore".

citing what i said above, i respectfully disagree.

It would also be reasonable and support my statement if in the entire time I've lived here I've never seen a caboose at the end of any train.

I cannot speak for you on what you have or have not seen, but not seeing something does not make it nonexistent.

Now check this; dunno whether you were trying to be hostile or condescending in your reply, but I was hardly trying to be when I made my post.

hardly. :wave:

 

[sniper297]

FYI, 60s and 70s the longer distance freights had cabooses because it was a "home" for the crew, the local way freights and unit trains often did not have a caboose. No surprise to see a stack train without a caboose, same as unit coal drags or oil drags, cars are never uncoupled, don't need brakemen. Most of the ride-alongs I got with my Uncle Frank (C&NW hogger, ran peddler freights) back in the 60s, had a 2 unit GP7 with no caboose and no conductor or fireman, just the engineer and 2 brakemen, and there was plenty of room in the cab even on the rare occasions he had a four man crew. Of course that was all local work, a 5 mile circle switching assorted industry spurs, back to 40th Street yard in time for lunch, then maybe a transfer run out to Proviso and back in the afternoon.

 

[norfolksouthern37]

many states had laws requiring all freight trains to have a caboose until sometime in the 80s when they started repealing them. the decline of the caboose had nothing to do with safety, it had to do with the rrs winning the battle with unions that wanted a full train crew and the states that required the caboose to be present. it was technology advancement and savings that made this attractive, a caboose makes no money on the train.

 

[JohnnyC1]

I might as well add some more flack :hehe:
That 1980's time frame is a little off. According to the railfan magazine "Pacific Rail News," October 1987 issue and from article about ATSF's 199/991 trains that ran from Oakland/Richmond to Barstow Ca, ATSF did not remove the caboose from their trains on the Valley Subdivision until the first half of 1987, the Valley Sub ran from Stockton to Barstow. This is because SP installed talking hot box detectors on their Tehachapi route in which ATSF had to access to gain entry to its Northern California routes, the caboose were added/removed at Barstow.

John