which one should I buy ?

[dzien50]

Hi All
Now that there is no more support for 2006 which version should I update to ? TC/2009/2010 ? Some questions :

A. I've got very used to 2006 so which if any is most like it ?
B. Can I copy my 2006 local folder into the new one and will all items work ?
C. Are there still many problems with these newer versions ?

Any advice would be helpful
Cheers
PJ

 

[airtime]

Hello dzien50,

If you like Trainz 2006, you can stay with Trainz 2006 for now, and you could buy a First Class ticket which in turn would give you access to the Download Station, the Download Station can be still a bit slow with a First Class Ticket especially at certain times at weekends, but it is very rare, but at least you will you still get access to the download station.

or

You could buy Trainz 2009. which has all the Trainz 2006 routes, and is very similar to Trainz 2006, but it may require you to add service packs to fix various errors and bugs.

or

You could buy Trainz 2010, which also has all the old Trainz 2006 routes along with some new ones, including the East Coast Mainline from York to London Kings Cross, but this may also require you to add service packs to fix various errors and bugs, depending on what graphics card you are using. Also word of caution, Trainz 2010 is a step forward in terms of Trainz simulation, so your computer may need to be upgraded for best performance, which may cost more than a First Class ticket.

Trainz 2010 is the future of Trainz to come, N3VRF41L are going towards Native Mode running in future Trainz sims, now whether this hapens in the next sim or a couple of sims down the line is up to N3VRF41L, this is one of many reasons why they want most of the content on the Download Station to be upgraded to Trainz 2010 and above use.

Hope this helps

Joe Airtime

 

[Euphod]

I was a die hard 2006 fan, and I'm right pleased with 2010...on the same PC.

 

[barn700]

Go straight to TS2010, its much better than any of the previous versions, and will also allow Multi-player too !!!

It is the future, as TS2010 has brought Trainz into the 2010's and will be the basis for future Trainz development. Many TRS2006 items will run fine in TS2010.

 

[dzien50]

Thanks for your replies, it looks like I'll give 2010 a try.
Just one thing, re my 2006 local folder, will it transfer into 2010 or will I lose some items ? I'm thinking here mainly about stock that I had for 2004/6 will it work in 2010 ?
Cheers
PJ

 

[itareus]

...re my 2006 local folder, will it transfer into 2010....

After you have installed 2010 and applied all the patches then you can use the Content Manger "Import" facility to bring all of your 2006 local folder items into 2010.

If any imported items show faulty (red) in 2010 Native mode then firstly check for updates from the DLS (Trainz members are currently updating much of the older content so that it runs error free in 2010). If there are no updates for the faulty content then you can try fixing it yourself - a repair tool called "AssetX" is available, or you can run in "Compatibility" mode which will allow the faulty assets to be used but may have a performance impact.

Also, before purchasing, just check that your PC is of a high enough spec to run 2010 - details of specs are on the Auran website.

 

[flatlander]

I'm going to ask a follow up question that I have not seen a really good answer to. If you are running 2006 on a Core 2 Duo Intel laptop which only uses one core, and you upgrade to 2010 which I understand uses both cores, do you really get better performance on the same machine if you upgrade?

From past experiences with software, developers will use both processors but then think that if both processors are available and will make the app run faster, lets add more features. So what you get is the same app running on two cores with a lot of extra features and it runs no faster than its predecessors. Is this the case with a Trainz 2006 -> 2010 migration on the same machine?

I'm running an HP laptop with Win7 64 bit, and an Intel Core2 Duo processor at 2.8GHz with 4Gb of RAM installed. Will I see better performance with my 2006 routes on 2010 if I export and import them correctly? I'd like to hear from someone who has experienced it.

 

[itareus]

...I'm running an HP laptop....

With 2010 and laptops the governing factor will generally be the graphics system since 2010 puts more load on the GPU than 2006 does. If your laptop has a half decent dedicated grapics card then you should be OK - i.e see some improvement - chances are that with integrated graphics you may have problems - i.e potentially worse performance.

Overall "performance" gains from 06 to 10 (measured only in FPS) may be small but feature wise, and stability wise, 2010 is much better (my opinion anyway).

...I'd like to hear from someone who has experienced it.....

Just to add, I'm not speaking from personal experience of having upgraded Trainz versions on a laptop, but rather from a background in IT and having some knowledge of the Trainz requirements.

(I doubt very much that my laptop, which at the age of 10 now lives in the garage from where it is used to control the points on the garden railway, would be capable of running any modern simulator!)

 

[flatlander]

That's what I expected to hear. The integrated video in my laptop is 256Mb which seems like enough but as compared to a desktop it's not. Right now I've got my 2006 settings turned down to where I can see about a half mile or a little better, fog turned off, and anything else that's going to consume resources. Hopefully I can do the same to 2010 and have it run with at least decent performance.

The reason I'm asking is that I'm going to be incapacitated for about 6 weeks in April which will give me plenty of Trainz time. If I'm going to spend energy on expanding the route I started to build or create another one, I'd rather do it in a newer platform if my laptop will support it.

 

[mrscsi]

I'm going to ask a follow up question that I have not seen a really good answer to. If you are running 2006 on a Core 2 Duo Intel laptop which only uses one core, and you upgrade to 2010 which I understand uses both cores, do you really get better performance on the same machine if you upgrade?

From past experiences with software, developers will use both processors but then think that if both processors are available and will make the app run faster, lets add more features. So what you get is the same app running on two cores with a lot of extra features and it runs no faster than its predecessors. Is this the case with a Trainz 2006 -> 2010 migration on the same machine?

I'm running an HP laptop with Win7 64 bit, and an Intel Core2 Duo processor at 2.8GHz with 4Gb of RAM installed. Will I see better performance with my 2006 routes on 2010 if I export and import them correctly? I'd like to hear from someone who has experienced it.

Performance really seems to be different for different users. There is some power users who aren't satisfied with less than 80 frames per second and on very complex routes to boot, I've had conversations with some who swear that 2010 is crap because on complex routes they can't maintain a decent frame rate (albeit what they consider decent)

They claim that 2006 ran better, being that it was more simplistic graphically, I'm sure it did...:hehe:

Then you have users with older machines trying to run complex routes and getting very poor frame rates and swear that 2010 is crap and 2006 ran better, again being that it was more simplistic graphically, I'm sure it did...

Then you have users who want to run routes made in UTC or 2004 in 2010, it doesn't react well, and they swear that 2010 is crap, and the earlier versions are better...

I think it's really just a mixed bag and you're probably going to get a different answer from every different user you ask. Personally I think 2010 is the best Trainz yet. And I'm not speaking strictly of performance, graphically it is better, CMP is better, it's databasing functions are better, there are plenty of enhancements in surveyor that are better, and I could sit here all day probably listing little things but overall it's the best version of the simulation to date.

One thing I have noticed that you could put it in the performance category, 2009 and TC3 (both of which I have readily available for comparison, 2006 and 2004 I would have to dig out the discs) when you drop between 18 and 20 frames per second will get really choppy, 2010 however when I have put so much crap in the route to actually drop it down that low is still relatively smooth, "relatively" would be the operative word there, it's not perfectly smooth, but it's less jerky dropping that low than either 2009 or TC3...

That may have a lot to do with it being more GPU oriented versus CPU oriented. But one thing's for certain, if you get 2010 you'll either love it or hate it...

 

[mrscsi]

That's what I expected to hear. The integrated video in my laptop is 256Mb which seems like enough but as compared to a desktop it's not. Right now I've got my 2006 settings turned down to where I can see about a half mile or a little better, fog turned off, and anything else that's going to consume resources. Hopefully I can do the same to 2010 and have it run with at least decent performance.

The reason I'm asking is that I'm going to be incapacitated for about 6 weeks in April which will give me plenty of Trainz time. If I'm going to spend energy on expanding the route I started to build or create another one, I'd rather do it in a newer platform if my laptop will support it.

Sucks to be incapacitated, been there, done that, and hate to hear that you are going to be going through it...

Most laptops don't want to run a 64-bit OS, some will but you'll find those are the higher-end laptops that are capable of having more than 4 GB of RAM.

Now I have not tried 2010 on a 32-bit OS. But what I can do, is load it up on my Dell 1705 which is a core 2 duo (albeit with an NVIDIA graphics board) but I think it's only 256 Meg but using shared in Vista it can go higher, the laptop has 2 GB of RAM. And while it may not be completely equal to what you're running, I should be able to give you ballpark performance figures...

What OS does your laptop currently run?

I have XP on mine now, which is what it came with, but I ordered it right before Vista was released so I got a Vista disc as well. Let me know what you're running and I'll do some testing for you...

I see by reading (reading is fundamental) that you are running Windows 7 64-bit, I can load up Windows 7 32 bit and directly compare some built-in routes from 2006 for you on a core 2 duo if you would like...

 

[flatlander]

I think I'm going to go ahead and get 2010. There seems to be a lot of improvements which will make the game a better experience. One of my co-workers sprung for 2010 a couple weeks ago and he showed me how it looks on a fast developer level machine with a dedicated video card. I can only wish for a machine like that right now - maybe in the future.

At this point in my life my kids are out of the house and my wife and I both work. So no mater how fast the machine is I'd rather not spend most of my evenings in the office on a desktop when I can be sociable using my laptop. It's at that point where you live with what you have and tweak it to balance performance.

I've only been a Trainz user for 3 months, and I love it. A couple weeks ago I scoured the forums looking for people discussing performance to see what others were experiencing on laptops. So I downloaded Fraps and used the benchmark numbers posted on the forum as my beginning baseline. This laptop actually doesn't do too bad, although it could be better. For the first 10 or so seconds into loading a route or session I get 1-5 FPS, but then it picks up and I'm getting 30-60 FPS, depending on what I'm doing.

 

[mrscsi]

I think I'm going to go ahead and get 2010. There seems to be a lot of improvements which will make the game a better experience. One of my co-workers sprung for 2010 a couple weeks ago and he showed me how it looks on a fast developer level machine with a dedicated video card. I can only wish for a machine like that right now - maybe in the future.

At this point in my life my kids are out of the house and my wife and I both work. So no mater how fast the machine is I'd rather not spend most of my evenings in the office on a desktop when I can be sociable using my laptop. It's at that point where you live with what you have and tweak it to balance performance.

I've only been a Trainz user for 3 months, and I love it. A couple weeks ago I scoured the forums looking for people discussing performance to see what others were experiencing on laptops. So I downloaded Fraps and used the benchmark numbers posted on the forum as my beginning baseline. This laptop actually doesn't do too bad, although it could be better. For the first 10 or so seconds into loading a route or session I get 1-5 FPS, but then it picks up and I'm getting 30-60 FPS, depending on what I'm doing.

The initial lag is something that's inherent throughout what seems to be all versions. I get it initially even with 2010 and pretty good hardware. You'll also note that if you're an external camera mode switching between cameras will cause a bit of a frame rate drop, it is what it is...

I've seen the same kind of drop in rail works, it doesn't really bother me anymore...

But if you're getting 30 to 60 you should be able to run 2010 just fine, and being that you're running a 64-bit OS may even get better overall performance.

But as I said before, the only thing for sure is you'll love it or hate it, here's hoping it's the former...

 

[flatlander]

MRSCSI - I'm using an HP 8530p running Win 7. It too has (alas) an NVIDEA integrated video card with 256Mb, or so the HP site says. Right now I'm running 4Gb RAM but I can add another 4 if it would help, but from what I hear both on this form and co-workers in our IT department at work, you can have lots of RAM, but if your video card is not so good it's not going to help to add more RAM.

If you want to load a couple routes it's be nice to see how they compare. I'd also be interested in knowing how additional RAM will affect the game if your video is limited. Screen draw is obviously paramount in any game, but RAM has to play a significant part somewhere. I wonder if adding another 4Gb of RAM (total 8) if it would make 2010 run any better than if I stay with 4Gb.

Reading is definitely paramount! One of my personal irritations is reading a email too fast and miss something. I think we all do that sometimes.

 

[itareus]

......The integrated video in my laptop is 256Mb which seems like enough........

If you have integrated video then it's a very different beast from dedicated video and nowhere near the same performance Mb for Mb. It is unlikely that you will be able to (viably) upgrade your current laptop's video so ... moving on to the next point:

......Right now I'm running 4Gb RAM but I can add another 4 if it would help........

Given your overall system spec, adding the extra RAM would probably result in (at best) only a small gain for a fair amount of money. I would try TS2010 first before thinking about upgrading. (It may possibly better to consider putting the money you might spend on this towards a new PC in the future?).

......I downloaded Fraps and used the benchmark numbers posted on the forum........

Aiming for benchmarks is one thing, but when those benchmarks are based on other peoples perceptions of what is good (e.g "my FPS is better than yours...") then they may not be regarded as a scientific basis for comparison. I think "mrscsi" is dead right in his comments about this - and anything above 30 fps should be just fine for most people - "if it looks right, it is right" applies.

....I'm going to be incapacitated for about 6 weeks in April which will give me plenty of Trainz time........

Well as the saying goes "every cloud has a silver lining".

Take care.