shaneturner12
Tutorial Creator
Another thing that may interest you is something WindWalkr stated recently, which is that N3V are not legally obliged to follow what is stated in an asset's license, and neither is the end-user.
Shane
Shane
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When a 3rd party site closes ...
- Thread starter cascaderailroad
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Third-party sites are basically a waste of space. Seems many if not most are more about promoting people's egos than anything else. Then they get bored or po'ed over something petty and take their toys and go home, leaving all those who depend on their stuff in the lurch.
As a freeware content creator, I would like my content to be used by as many people as possible. That's the only thing I get out of it - it sure isn't money, now is it? Artificially limiting my audience by hosting on some fly-by-night website usually isn't a good way to do that. That's why I put it on the DLS.
As for speed, it's possible to have the best of both worlds: keep your stuff on the DLS and put it on a third-party site for the benefit of those without FCTs. That said, I'll take a slow DLS over a fast fly-by-night third-party site any day.
Oh, and you gotta love the file hosting at many (if not most) of these third-party sites, crawling with malware. Ugh...that reason alone is enough to deter sane users from downloading from third-party sites.
As a freeware content creator, I would like my content to be used by as many people as possible. That's the only thing I get out of it - it sure isn't money, now is it? Artificially limiting my audience by hosting on some fly-by-night website usually isn't a good way to do that. That's why I put it on the DLS.
As for speed, it's possible to have the best of both worlds: keep your stuff on the DLS and put it on a third-party site for the benefit of those without FCTs. That said, I'll take a slow DLS over a fast fly-by-night third-party site any day.
Oh, and you gotta love the file hosting at many (if not most) of these third-party sites, crawling with malware. Ugh...that reason alone is enough to deter sane users from downloading from third-party sites.
cascaderailroad
New member
Everyone should know that you should not click on sample games, advertisement bait like: "Squash a Cookarotcha", "Tanks", or "LivDl Manager" on Mediafire ... and when you want to open or download you should NOT "Double Left Click" only on the CDP download tab ... (Instead, you should "Right Click+Open" only on the "Green Download" tab).
I like 3rd party sites, but sooner or later the domain rental will expire, and the site owner will become zippo ... gone.
Unlike the N3V DLS site that is presumed to have a "Lifetime" expectency until the year 2037 (Yes your Lifetime FCT does have an expiration date).
By that time we will all be playing: "Space Simulator" "Moon Jump Off Base-Marz-Jupiter-Saturn" (which NASA promised by the year 2001, which never materalized).
I like 3rd party sites, but sooner or later the domain rental will expire, and the site owner will become zippo ... gone.
Unlike the N3V DLS site that is presumed to have a "Lifetime" expectency until the year 2037 (Yes your Lifetime FCT does have an expiration date).
By that time we will all be playing: "Space Simulator" "Moon Jump Off Base-Marz-Jupiter-Saturn" (which NASA promised by the year 2001, which never materalized).
Last edited:
What you're claiming doesn't jive with the Download Station License Agreement which specifically states, "The grant of the license in clause 2.1 ("Grant of license") is not and cannot be deemed to be a sale, transfer or any other conveyance of your intellectual property rights held in the New Works."
Two different things. The asset creator continues to hold the 'copyright' (intellectual property rights). That only means nobody can download and alter the asset, that clause has nothing to do with distribution, config licence clauses or anything else...
RRSignal Comment: As a freeware content creator, I would like my content to be used by as many people as possible. That's the only thing I get out of it - it sure isn't money, now is it? Artificially limiting my audience by hosting on some fly-by-night website usually isn't a good way to do that. That's why I put it on the DLS.
In a way, uploading to the DLS does restrict your content from being available to the widest audience. N3V takes your free content and makes it built-in content in their for profit payware games. That means that if you place an asset on the DLS now and they want to use it as built-in in the next version it will no longer be available from the DLS for use in earlier versions. When your items become built in they become vaporware to those without the “latest-greatest” version. If you upload an item now with trainz-build 3.4 or above it will not be available for use in versions earlier than TS-2012. I may be able to see it listed on the DLS via the black pages but it requires a 2012 license to download it even though the item would work in some earlier versions. N3V benefits from your labor by requiring us to buy their latest versions, in addition to the first class ticket, to get access to your freeware. And I’m sure you are getting royalty checks from N3V for that, right? And your items that become built in become vaporware to those without the “latest-greatest” version. Over the years, Auran/N3V has also dumped 2004 and/or 2006 content from the DLS also making it vaporware. So, as far as getting access to content or losing content what difference does it make whether it is on the DLS or a third party site? It still “goes away”. Over the years I’ve gotten more quality content from third party sites (including the payware sites) than from the DLS. So, when you get it be sure to backup, backup, backup and save it.
Eventually, I may purchases 2012 and register it. I don’t plan to use it but that will give me access to the built-in items not in 2010 as well as your DLS “freeware” items that require the purchase of 2012 to download them from the DLS. For me it is not about the money but more about the principals of “capitalism”. If I’m going to make and market something as free and you are going to sell it for a profit then I want my cut.
In a way, uploading to the DLS does restrict your content from being available to the widest audience. N3V takes your free content and makes it built-in content in their for profit payware games. That means that if you place an asset on the DLS now and they want to use it as built-in in the next version it will no longer be available from the DLS for use in earlier versions. When your items become built in they become vaporware to those without the “latest-greatest” version. If you upload an item now with trainz-build 3.4 or above it will not be available for use in versions earlier than TS-2012. I may be able to see it listed on the DLS via the black pages but it requires a 2012 license to download it even though the item would work in some earlier versions. N3V benefits from your labor by requiring us to buy their latest versions, in addition to the first class ticket, to get access to your freeware. And I’m sure you are getting royalty checks from N3V for that, right? And your items that become built in become vaporware to those without the “latest-greatest” version. Over the years, Auran/N3V has also dumped 2004 and/or 2006 content from the DLS also making it vaporware. So, as far as getting access to content or losing content what difference does it make whether it is on the DLS or a third party site? It still “goes away”. Over the years I’ve gotten more quality content from third party sites (including the payware sites) than from the DLS. So, when you get it be sure to backup, backup, backup and save it.
Eventually, I may purchases 2012 and register it. I don’t plan to use it but that will give me access to the built-in items not in 2010 as well as your DLS “freeware” items that require the purchase of 2012 to download them from the DLS. For me it is not about the money but more about the principals of “capitalism”. If I’m going to make and market something as free and you are going to sell it for a profit then I want my cut.
shaneturner12
Tutorial Creator
Do you have any proof of old content being removed from the DLS?
Shane
Shane
RRSignal Comment: As a freeware content creator, I would like my content to be used by as many people as possible. That's the only thing I get out of it - it sure isn't money, now is it? Artificially limiting my audience by hosting on some fly-by-night website usually isn't a good way to do that. That's why I put it on the DLS.
In a way, uploading to the DLS does restrict your content from being available to the widest audience. N3V takes your free content and makes it built-in content in their for profit payware games. That means that if you place an asset on the DLS now and they want to use it as built-in in the next version it will no longer be available from the DLS for use in earlier versions.
Examples? I've only been here three years, but it seems the exact opposite happens: When built-in content is removed from a version (e.g. TS2010 to TS12) the content is put on the DLS if it wasn't there already. I do know authors can submit routes/sessions for a new version of Trainz and, thus, those versions won't appear on the DLS if N3V includes them with a new game, until that new game version becomes obsolete.
I just searched a smattering of content from some TS12 routes and everything except the route/sessions and locos are on the DLS.
Third-party sites are basically a waste of space. Seems many if not most are more about promoting people's egos than anything else. Then they get bored or po'ed over something petty and take their toys and go home, leaving all those who depend on their stuff in the lurch.
As a freeware content creator, I would like my content to be used by as many people as possible. That's the only thing I get out of it - it sure isn't money, now is it? Artificially limiting my audience by hosting on some fly-by-night website usually isn't a good way to do that. That's why I put it on the DLS.
As for speed, it's possible to have the best of both worlds: keep your stuff on the DLS and put it on a third-party site for the benefit of those without FCTs. That said, I'll take a slow DLS over a fast fly-by-night third-party site any day.
Oh, and you gotta love the file hosting at many (if not most) of these third-party sites, crawling with malware. Ugh...that reason alone is enough to deter sane users from downloading from third-party sites.
And in the end it is not up to the creator of the asset anymore because every week or so one of these thread's is started and we all have to read about RRSignals thought's on 3rd Party sites, That is if you didn't read it in any of the other FREEWARE release threads where he and others still continually voice their opinion because they liked the item but as it is to be hosted on a 3rd party site that doesn't go along with their plans for world domination.
And I’m sure you are getting royalty checks from N3V for that, right? And your items that become built in become vaporware to those without the “latest-greatest” version. Over the years, Auran/N3V has also dumped 2004 and/or 2006 content from the DLS also making it vaporware. So, as far as getting access to content or losing content what difference does it make whether it is on the DLS or a third party site? It still “goes away”. Over the years I’ve gotten more quality content from third party sites (including the payware sites) than from the DLS. So, when you get it be sure to backup, backup, backup and save it.
Probably the best way of describing it Torino72, Just a real shame that the creators opinion doesn't matter here anymore.
Mick.
I avoid routes that have dependancies scattered on third party sites as one of the biggest problems is that you when you download a route you may find that you have say 50 unknown dependancies. A google search reveals that the item is on XYZ site but where. You have no idea what it is because it's unknown and one of the only sites that show both a description and the kuid number is TPR. As an example the other day when downloading the Reading and Northern route I found the thread indicating where the missing Kuids were, the only problem was that one of the links lead to six different assets so I needed to download them all to make sure I picked up the one I needed. It would be a lot easier if the third party sites included the kuid number with the description.
Ken
Ken
shaneturner12
Tutorial Creator
One thing I will add here is that new users are suffering due to content creators using third party sites to host their content. At least with the DLS one only has to download the session and they automatically get the route and dependencies, and downloading updates can be done ingame.
Shane
Shane
At least with the DLS one only has to download the session and they automatically get the route and dependencies, and downloading updates can be done ingame.
Probably should add in there Shane "When the DLS is actually working correctly". I think you should also add just for the new user's "They actually have quite a battle on their hands getting the game working correctly to be able too access the DLS. If your familiar with other Sim's or what ever then yes you may get it working fairly quickly with a minimum amount of pain but for anyone new to the gaming world Trainz is not a "Throw it in the old PC and away you go game" So the DLS and 3rd party sites are way down their list of gripes.
Mick.
shaneturner12
Tutorial Creator
True but in some cases it is actually harder to install content from 3rd party sites especially from those creators who insist on using RAR files (they know who they are).
Shane
Shane
johnwhelan
Well-known member
Not all Trainz content will ever be on the DLS. Live with it.
There is a thread somewhere for routes that have all content on the DLS.
Comment about content disappearing from the DLS when its out of date, some of the very early assets ie pre sp3 are no longer available.
Cheerio John
There is a thread somewhere for routes that have all content on the DLS.
Comment about content disappearing from the DLS when its out of date, some of the very early assets ie pre sp3 are no longer available.
Cheerio John
Two different things. The asset creator continues to hold the 'copyright' (intellectual property rights). That only means nobody can download and alter the asset, that clause has nothing to do with distribution, config licence clauses or anything else...
No, it's not to different things. Legally speaking, "licence clauses", e.g. "licencing" are a covered by the laws pertaining to copyrights, and quite literally the author's control of "the right to copy" (what a copyright entails) allows the author/creator to control how the original work is "distributed" , etc.
True but in some cases it is actually harder to install content from 3rd party sites especially from those creators who insist on using RAR files (they know who they are).
Shane
If you can't operate a RAR file, how do you expect to use CMP or fix errors?
As far as users suffering, don't see how. The "suffering" is caused by route builders scouring every site on the planet and using 500 Meg of content most wouldn't even notice gone if they deleted that missing content.*
As far as I'm concerned, you build a route for your enjoyment. If you share, bonus. I can take a few to find assets or use Surveyor to replace those assets as needed. I know it's a so called pain for the end user. Lot less than building your own route. After years of being stuck with dial up, I learned a long time ago to first download a route to see if it was worth chasing dependencies for. Map and tracks, nothing more. If I liked it, I went for some of the dependencies and changed others to suit. Not hard.
As for the OP, if you like older trees and such, you should have several back ups if you stay with an older version like I do. I have everything on a disc, external hard drive along with an old computer I just store garbage on. Trunda's trees kill Speedtree in my opinion. Not much use to someone using TS12 so my routes will be useless to them as well.
Dave.
No, it's not to different things. Legally speaking, "licence clauses", e.g. "licencing" are a covered by the laws pertaining to copyrights, and quite literally the author's control of "the right to copy" (what a copyright entails) allows the author/creator to control how the original work is "distributed" , etc.
Wandering off topic, but that's just wrong.
A writer writes a book and owns the copyright thereto. The publisher of the book owns the distribution rights. No conflict.
Same thing with DLS assets. The creator owns the copyright, you can arc up to high heaven with total N3V and community support if someone edits, alters, redistributes or claims ownership of the asset. However you have absolutely no grounds for complaint if someone uses the asset in a payware route. You signed that right away (electronically) when you clicked the 'Accept' (or whatever) button in the DLS upload process. There are at last count approximately 10,000 threads on the subject and I quite simply fail to understand how every time this comes up somebody jumps in with 'aint so'....
And it is one of the two main reasons that SOME content creators prefer 3rd party sites. The other one is the European Language v DLS/CM ASCII-only policy.
While I'm on the high horse, I just don't get why so many people get so irked about 3rd party sites. About 2/3 of what I download comes from them, 95% of them have been here for years and will still be here in years to come and without exception they provide fantastic support when there is an issue (which is seldom!). I just cannot fathom why folks who don't like 3rd party sites don't just quietly go about the business of not using them. It truly mystifies me....
Andy
You complain when content is not uploaded to the DLS.
You complain when content uploaded to the DLS is not error free.
You complain when content doesn't meet new requirements N3V doesn't post until after the fact.
You complain creators won't turn rights to their creation over to N3V.*
You complain the DLS is not up to snuff to find assets that are on the DLS.
You complain older assets don't meet new requirements.*
You complain the new requirements make those older assets obsolete.
You complain loss of those assets break every route in the inventory.*
I think most of you just like to complain while holding dearly to assets you say are not good enough but break every route ever produced. TS12 and the Mac version are chock full of older content hidden from error detection in JA files. Make up your mind, kids.*
Have a beef with third party sites? Ask N3V why they won't change their upload policy. Everything sits on their shoulders, no one else's. Stroke of a pen is all it takes.*
A common example is Profig and his trees. His license to make them runs afoul of the DLS upload policy. Don't give me the "N3V small company" garbage. If we follow the DLS cheerleaders, we violate many third party agreements to use their assets. I also find it funny those cheerleaders hate Steam but expect everyone to upload to the Mother Ship. And I hate Steam with a passion.
Argue amongst yourselves. Cry a third party developer wishes to retain his rights to content while arguing N3V's upload policy. A clever little, "You agreed you had rights and absolved us" arrangement as they charge you in the next release. I would take N3V more serious if I cold open those JR locomotive in TS12 up to repaint and distribute on the DLS.*
Dave.
You complain when content uploaded to the DLS is not error free.
You complain when content doesn't meet new requirements N3V doesn't post until after the fact.
You complain creators won't turn rights to their creation over to N3V.*
You complain the DLS is not up to snuff to find assets that are on the DLS.
You complain older assets don't meet new requirements.*
You complain the new requirements make those older assets obsolete.
You complain loss of those assets break every route in the inventory.*
I think most of you just like to complain while holding dearly to assets you say are not good enough but break every route ever produced. TS12 and the Mac version are chock full of older content hidden from error detection in JA files. Make up your mind, kids.*
Have a beef with third party sites? Ask N3V why they won't change their upload policy. Everything sits on their shoulders, no one else's. Stroke of a pen is all it takes.*
A common example is Profig and his trees. His license to make them runs afoul of the DLS upload policy. Don't give me the "N3V small company" garbage. If we follow the DLS cheerleaders, we violate many third party agreements to use their assets. I also find it funny those cheerleaders hate Steam but expect everyone to upload to the Mother Ship. And I hate Steam with a passion.
Argue amongst yourselves. Cry a third party developer wishes to retain his rights to content while arguing N3V's upload policy. A clever little, "You agreed you had rights and absolved us" arrangement as they charge you in the next release. I would take N3V more serious if I cold open those JR locomotive in TS12 up to repaint and distribute on the DLS.*
Dave.
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