What's the legal path to take when sharing a route?

[flatlander]

I'm fairly new to Trainz 2006, and am hooked. In the near future I'll probably upgrade to 2010 but for now I'm using 2006 as a learning tool.

The question that I've had going over my mind is that if I create a route whether simulating a real place or create a fictitious route, I will probably look in my list of assets and use what's there. Some of the items however may have come from other routes that are publicly available and I have the route to my CMP. An example is houses I like on the Polar Express Route found on the DLS.

So what do I need to think of ahead of time so that if I create a route to share with the community, is there a problem with using what's in my CMP and sharing it? I tried creating a CDP for one of my routes with the assets on it, and it barked at me and said 'these assets are not yours, so we can't make them a part of this CDP'.

So can I just use what I have, create the CDP of the route and share it and let the end user find the missing dependencies? How does this all work in the real world.

There are sites I've been to like Dremmy's Checkrail.com where he says point blank - use it but don't share it, which I can appreciate and honor. I just don't want to step on anyone's toes if I can help it.

 

[barn700]

Welcome to the very addictive World of Trainz !!

It is always better to use built-in or DLS assets, there are thousands of them. This will ensure that people wont have to go looking for missing assets when they download your route.

It is courtesy to inform all users/owners of assets that you areusing their items on your route, and give them credit.

I would advise upgrading to TS2010 as soon as possible, as there are better graphics and capabilities in that version, and its quite cheap. Also go for a First Class Ticket so you can download assets from the DLS better/quicker. Also TS2010 (and future versions allow Multi-Player that demand DLS/Built-in items on a route)

Start by building a smaller route, as you will be suprised at the amount of time involved in content creation.

Again welcome to Trainz and these forums, many many fellow trainzers are here to help or answer questions which will arise.

 

[maxwerks]

You can save a route to CDP format. When someone else then loads the CDP into his/her Content Manager, he/she can then download the dependencies from the Download Station.

Unless I'm mistaken, however, you're talking about actually uploading the route to the Download Station. I'm not sure you can even do that with TRS 2006 now, but if you can, just click the "Check None" button on the window that pops up when you drag the route to the Uploads panel. The dependencies will not be included in the route file itself, but their KUIDs and locations are recorded, so the route will still be intact when someone else downloads it.

The tricky part is when you use assets/dependencies that are not on the Download Station (i.e., third party content). If possible, try to keep track of them and list them in the description of the route, along with where they can be found. When you upload a route to the Download Station, Auran will notify you via e-mail of any dependencies in the route that aren't on the DLS. You can then post a message in the Freeware forum that lets people know where they can find those assets.

Hope this helps,

Max

 

[stagecoach]

You create the route not what is on it unless you create your own assets. The route only refers to the building kuids that you use, it does not contain them in the route. When you launch the route trainz will read those references and put them into the route from your download folder. When someone downloads your route CMP will search the DLS and their local folder for those kuids and download the ones they dont have. You can only create a CDP for upload if it has your kuid number. You wont be able to upload from 2006 as all new content must be Trainz Classics or above. If you use someone elses route and do alterations and then upload their route under your kuid number, seek their permission as the main work was not yours.

 

[flatlander]

Good replies. I have already bought a 6 month First Class Ticket and it really helps. I read in another forum where you can't upload to DLS with 2004 or 2006 assets or routes anymore, so that I know.

"It is courtesy to inform all users/owners of assets that you areusing their items on your route, and give them credit."

I'm all for giving credit, and I applaud and appreciate creators who have been in this a lot longer than I have and put the dependencies and where to get them in a list with the asset in the DLS. I'd like to be able to do that eventually for the route that I am creating right now.

So here's an example. I have a route that came from somewhere, but it's pretty neat (I'm not at home right now). Last night I was getting the dependencies that are missing and the 5 missing were in a large pack of maybe 50 items that had to be downloaded. So if I satisfy the missing dependencies list for that route, now I have extra assets on my CMP. If for some reason in my route creation I use one of the 'extra' assets that came with the package in my creation such as a fence around a house, or a construction vehicle, I don't want to have to keep a log of what I used for what, but that's what my over-organizational mind says to do. My alter ego is looking for an easy way to cover my bases (arse).

At this point I haven't bought anything although I'm sure that will be in the near future. So at this time I won't be giving something away that has rights to it.

Maybe I'm thinking too much. My wife says I over think things, but I'm sure some of you understand.

 

[rumour3]

Hi Jalandis01

Provided that you upload your route without any dependencies as outlined by maxwerks then it doesn't matter in terms of the legalities whether the assets come from the DLS, other freeware or payware sites. Your route simply references them and if the end user doesn't have them, hasn't bought them or can't find them then their downloaded copy of your route will appear minus those assets, and will have a little yellow question mark in CM. However, one of the consequences of uploading a route to the DLS which uses non-DLS dependencies is that you can expect to get many requests as to where people can obtain the dependencies they are missing. In most cases the community on the forum are happy to help, and it's up to you how much guidance you are prepared to give them. Most of the experienced route downloaders will have a clear idea of where to find the most common assets and are happy to help others track them down. Googling KUIDs is also pretty good way of finding them. It's also a good idea, particularly if you use payware, to mention it in the route description, to avoid disappointment.

Some assets are more important than others, and if something obscure like a model of a garden wheelbarrow can't be tracked down then this probably won't matter too much- the user can use the delete missing assets function (although note that this is a one-off and should only be done if your prepared to accept the route with all the bits that are missing, rather than carry on searching). However, if certain key assets are not easy to find (track, for example) it may be a little bit frustrating for some end users.

I personally have a DLS-only (and S&C add-on) policy on my machine, which can be really frustrating for me when I know that there is some fantastic third party content out there. However, I am deliberately sticking to it because when I finally upload my big route (much of Norfolk UK) I would really like to be able to say that EVERYTHING is either on the DLS or in the S&C add-on. I'm also a bit suspect of some file sharing and download sites, and tend to play cautious as far as viruses and other malware etc are concerned. I appreciate that this is my loss, and that there are many great and safe download sites out there.

One final thing- if you want to be able to help others find assets, make sure that you add -showkuids to your trainzoptions.txt file. This will mean that the kuid of the currently selected item will appear in the bottom right corner of the surveyor window, which is really useful when pointing people in the direction of third party assets.

Regards

R3

 

[flatlander]

R3- It all makes sense. I'm trying to clean up the missing dependencies on a few routes that I've enjoyed, and do understand the path you need to take to find some obscure items.

Is there a way to limit your use of DLS only items when you are building in Surveyor? You mention something which I'm not familiar. From a quick memory trip, I don't remember any way to set Surveyor to do that.

I'll add 'showkuids' to my trainsoptions tonight and see what it shows me.

So to wrap up what I've learned so far is that no matter which version of Trainz I use, if I upload a route it will only contain what I crafted along with a list of dependent KUIDs which others can find. Then assistance with finding the missing items would be helpful for downloaders.

Again I'm going to stay away from purchased items in something I may share publicly. Recently I've been creating a folder filing system which lists what types of items are in the CDP and where they came from. Hopefully it will help me later.

Someday soon I'll be able to contribute more.

Jim

 

[HiBaller]

I maintain a completely virgin, as installed, copy of Trainz. I do my route building in another copy of it. When I get ready to sent it out to the world, I make a CDP of JUST THE ROUTE ITSELF and import that into the virgin copy but I do NOT import ANY content.

Using the Content Manager from the virgin copy, I can readily see what is built-in, on the DLS, and "unknown" (which means it is 3rd party). I copy the unknown items and use that to post what will have to be located.

Using this method, you don't have to keep a log at all. When you're finished cataloging everything, you simply delete the whole route from the virgin copy and it's ready for the next route.

Bill

 

[paulzmay]

The -showkuids option shows the kuid of the item you have selected in surveyor on the screen. The colour of the text indicates its origin: Yellow for built-in, white for DLS, red for anything else (3rd part sites/payware/your own unpublished content).

It is courtesy to inform all users/owners of assets that you are using their items on your route, and give them credit.

Not so sure about this - at one point it was automatically added to the description on the DLS IIRC. As many routes use the creations of hundreds of different creators, I doubt if it would be really practical. I've certainly not been notified or asked about using my scenery items in DLS routes, nor would I expect them to be - it's what they are uploaded there for. Of course it's up to you, but I'm not aware of anyone doing this, unless they are hosting the dependencies as well as the route.

Paul

 

[Retro00064]

<snip>

Not so sure about this - at one point it was automatically added to the description on the DLS IIRC. <snip>

Yes, you are remembering correctly, Paul. The original, pre-TRS2004 Download Station (formerly located at http://www.auran.com/trainz/downloadst.htm) automatically listed the usernames of all of the content creators of each dependency that was on the DLS, under a "Contributors (Dependencies):" header. The old DLS's software did that for all assets that required DLS dependencies that some one else created, not just with maps. The TRS2004 "Black Pages" Download Station, however, does not currently do this (except for in seperate description windows for individual DLS assets, if I remember correctly ), and I am not sure if it ever did before. The original, pre TRS2004 Download Station continued to exist until recently this year, very soon after I brought up its existence in a discussion (go ahead and trout-whack me ), and I wonder why it disappeared? (It now exists as only a redirect to the TRS2004 DLS. )

Regards.

 

[flatlander]

@Bill - last night I didn't have much time to investigate but did try to create a CDP from the route I was working on, just to force it to tell me what KUID's were being used. Where it was going to take me I wasn't sure, but it did say that I couldn't include the KUIDs listed because they were all built in. So I guess that's one way to tell too.

@Paul - I'm going to have to try the addition of 'showkuids' to trainzoptions and see what it shows me. That method seems to be a good way to see on the fly what you are using. Too bad there isn't a switch of some kind that you can turn off 3rd party assets.

 

[barn700]

In TS2009 and TS2010 you can check the route in Content Manager, then list the dependancies. That will list all of the assets used on a route, and a simple check to see if they are built-in or on the DLS.

 

[flatlander]

Since Trainzoptions was mentioned I've got to ask this question. Where can I find the Command Line reference doc which explains what the items in trainzoptions means? I bought the UTC/2004/2006 version and I've searched all disks and can't find any doc like that.

Can one of you point me in the right direction?

Jim

 

[HiBaller]

Try here:

http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Trainz/Trainzoptions.txt

This list isn't complete, but it does explain a lot of them.

Bill

 

[paulzmay]

When you create a .CDP for upload, don't include anything by anyone else - it's not needed and it will fail upload. The route's config.txt file includes a list of all the required kuids of dependent assets - that's how Content manager knows what else to download from the DLS when you download a route.

Paul